Senate Passes NICS Improvement Act

[scout26]

I've posted the actual text of this bill in this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=324595

Rather then reading the press release (aka spin), read the actual bill and make up your own mind, it's in posts #6 and #7 in the above thread.

I think you'll find that this bill actually helps veterans, especially those 100,000+/- veterans that were put on the "naughty" list during the Clinton administration, with no way to get off the list. Now there will be a way for those veterans who who sought help with PTSD without be adjuticated to get off the list.

Oh and if the VPC, Bradybunch, and the other Anti-2A groups have their panties in a bunch over this, that normally indicates a "win" for our side.

 

[Green Lantern]

The original NICS law, yes. The amended law, yes, but now to a lesser degree.
Would total repeal be better? Yes! Would you prefer no improvement at all?

Nope, that was what I was trying to get at. About the best we can hope for at the present time is either additions to gun control laws or them staying the same - I prefer this POSITIVE addition, rather than a negative addition or even just the status quo.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Passed by Senate, accepted by House, awaiting President's signature

The original post in this thread omitted the last two sentences of the NRA announcement on Wednesday, December 19, 2007:

On Wednesday evening, by unanimous consent, the U.S. House accepted the Senate amendment to H.R. 2640. The legislation is headed to the President's desk for his signature into law.

 

[dave_pro2a]

Sounds like they are not actually funding the Federal restoration of firearm rights process that was established by the Gun Control Act (18 U.S.C. § 925(c) and C.F.R. § 478.144).

They just enabled the VA to review cases that only involve disenfranchisement due to mental health issues. The ATF will not be reviewing restoration petitions. That leaves a segment of our population with no means to petition for resoration of firearms rights, so gun rights get screwed again.

I do not buy the line "if Brady hates it, we must love it." This piece of legislation is total BS. We are losing ground, and once again the NRA is a sell out.

 

[dave_pro2a]

Scout: "I think you'll find that this bill actually helps veterans, especially those 100,000+/- veterans that were put on the "naughty" list during the Clinton administration, with no way to get off the list. Now there will be a way for those veterans who who sought help with PTSD without be adjuticated to get off the list."

I don't care about giving vetrans preferential treatment under the law. I care about equal treatment.

This would have been a good opportunity to force the .gov to actually fund their own damn restoration program, so anyone who has been disenfranchised under Federal law could petition for redress.

But no, NRA capitulates again.

 

[countycop007]

Whenever I'm not sure about anykind of bill or law before congress, I look to see how Ted Kennedy stands on that issue, and I go the other way from him. Thats the best way I found.

 

[Robert Hairless]

I don't care about giving vetrans preferential treatment under the law. I care about equal treatment.

This would have been a good opportunity to force the .gov to actually fund their own damn restoration program, so anyone who has been disenfranchised under Federal law could petition for redress.

But no, NRA capitulates again.

If you want equal treatment not preferential treatment the federal government should also fund the restoration of rights to everyone accused of any felony in federal court and everyone convicted. I suspect that the cost would be high so I suppose that the federal government would have to fund that new obligation by speeding up the production line and selling more goods, or whatever it is that it does to fund programs like these. I don't object to the idea of having the federal government pay everyone's legal bills.

In the meantime veterans who lost their rights aren't compelled to use this law to restore them. They can simply ignore those provisions of the law and behave as if the new law doesn't exist and the current one still applies to them. There's no need for them to compromise their principles just to please the NRA. A good, firm stand in refusing to do anything about getting their rights restored until the federal government pays their legal bills could go a long way.

 

[flynlr]

will be interesting to hear GOA's input on this.
I wasn't to happy about this bill but the thought that the VPC is annoyed at least makes it seem less harmful to us.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

What is funny in reading all these comments is that the NRA is blamed for selling out or praised for making the bill better when many of the improvements were made by GOA's 2004 "Most important election to win this year": Senator Tom Coburn.

He really gets a big nod for making this a better bill. I think the NRA would have settled for worse than this. The really funny thing though is as a result he also deserves credit for most of the "sellout" accusations being made here as well since it was his willingness to compromise on those issues that got them included in the bill.

 

[jrfoxx]

it was going to be passed with or without the NRA's input. I for one am very glad that the NRA was there to make this piece of legislation as painless as possible.

That's how I see this, too.And it sure seems to me, that we came out ahead on this one.I dont see any NEW restictions on anyone, just ways for SOME people to get thier 2A rights back.Cant really see how thats a problem.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I've been watching this for a while now and I've come to the conclusion that Mr. Coburn is a pretty smart guy and that we've got the beginnings of a new wedge (to our benefit) with this bill. That's not to say I'm not continuing to watch this closely.

On a related legislative note... If you haven't acted (called/written/etc) on the National Parks Carry issue you NEED TO DO SO! This is another "wedge" in the door and a step in returning firearms to "unremarkable/commonplace" status and believe me folks until we can undemonize firearms and instill a "commonplace" attitude towards them we will never make much progress.

 

[Geo.Az]

Bartholomew Roberts

the Biggest Point missed is WE/ALL of us would not be here talking about this now of the NRA had held the LINE in 1968 when they let The Anti-G bunch Take Away OUR,WE,or US 2A. Rights. All the wasted Time. All the Broken Promoses. All the Smoke and Mirrors. With all the Excuses De Jures. In the End WE/ALL of US have been SOLD OUT, just like slaves/taxpayers. (same ) Sorry for the Rant. Sorry a Right is a RIGHT. Black and White. a Wrong Is a F !
How do you Feel ...Are ANY ONE/ALL of YOU want to Change ? Lets Work together on Over turning the 1968 ( RIGHT'S ) law. Please we need to start NOW!

ps. the differnce between Congress and the NRA .....Think About It.:banghead:

Disclamer. all vewes above are mine Only and IMBiasHO

 

[ZeSpectre]

The Biggest Point missed is WE/ALL of us would not be here talking about this now of the NRA had held the LINE in 1968

Okay, that may be true but we can't go back and change it so we need to work with what we have now. Personally my political activism has gone up about 250% in the past five years and some friends ask me how I can keep going.

"Simple" I tell them "I never viewed this as a win-and-move-on prospect, rather I see it as a constant maintenance and repair project that will probably last the rest of my life".

Given that viewpoint it's a lot easier to keep the LONG view in mind and not get distressed by setbacks along the way.

 

[REOIV]

No gun control is good.

Though when given a choice between a kick in the groin or stomach, I'd rather have the kick in the stomach.

We need to repeal the majority of all gun control laws rather than make new ones.

 

[ServiceSoon]

What's up with this "voice vote" crap?

Why is this bad? do you guys want to pay a tax on the gun you buy?

The money has to come from somebody. My opinion is it should come from the people who use that service.

 

[Robert Hairless]

ZeSpectre:

Personally my political activism has gone up about 250% in the past five years and some friends ask me how I can keep going.

"Simple" I tell them "I never viewed this as a win-and-move-on prospect, rather I see it as a constant maintenance and repair project that will probably last the rest of my life".

Given that viewpoint it's a lot easier to keep the LONG view in mind and not get distressed by setbacks along the way.

Well said.

 

[Pete409]

the Biggest Point missed is WE/ALL of us would not be here talking about this now of the NRA had held the LINE in 1968 when they let The Anti-G bunch Take Away OUR,WE,or US 2A. Rights. All the wasted Time. All the Broken Promoses. All the Smoke and Mirrors. With all the Excuses De Jures. In the End WE/ALL of US have been SOLD OUT, just like slaves/taxpayers.

BULL. If it hadn't been for the NRA, we probably would have lost ALL our gun rights in 1968. The country was in extreme turmoil. President Kennedy had been assassinated a few years earlier (Nov 1963) with a rifle. Martin Luther King Jr. had been assassinated a few months (Apr 1968) earlier with a rifle; and Robert Kennedy (who was campaigning for president) was assassinated in June 1968 with a handgun.

There were riots in the streets all over the country...... Chicago, Los Angeles, Memphis, and elsewhere. Portions of major cities were ablaze; people were getting shot by rioters, looting was rampant; it was damn near anarchy. Gun control advocates were calling for making ALL guns illegal for everyone except the police and the military.

Congress was determined to do something, even if it was wrong. NRA could either stand up and say "No new gun laws" and get trampled like a poodle in a buffalo herd stampede, or they could try to talk some reason into the senators and congressmen who were determined to pass a gun ban bill come hell or high water.

You can criticize and condemn the NRA all you want, but the fact is if it hadn't been for the NRA in 1968, we would have lost ALL our gun rights. Thank God we had the NRA then and thank God we've still got them now....... even though only a tiny percentage of us gun owners support them while the rest of the cheapskate gun owners accept a free ride.

The NRA is slowly getting some of our gun rights back. In fact, we have some gun liberties today (such as the average law abiding citizen being able to easily get a CCW license) that we didn't have in 1968. Yet people like you still b!tch and moan about what NRA HASN'T done for them lately.

 

[scout26]

ps. the differnce between Congress and the NRA .....Think About It

Uh, Congress actually votes on bills to make them laws. The NRA can only beg, plead, and lobby those that actually vote. Last I checked, NRA was allowed 0 votes in either house of Congress.

Oh, and the whole "If The NRA had held the line in '68" is crap. If the NRA had held the line in '68 we/they would have been run over like the French in 1940 and we'd be looking at Austrailian or British style Gun Control.

Take a look at what was actually happening in '68:
Two assassinated Kennedy's, Malcom X and Martin Luther King had also been killed, (with riots in major cities following the later's murder), and the Black Panthers threatening to kill all the white folks. Again the NRA was not allowed to cast any votes in Congress, but they did what they could to mitigate the damage, which given the political climate in '68, amounted to "not much". Given what had happened within the previous 5 years the country was very much "Anti-2A", and demanding the gov't "do something".

Don't blame the NRA for '68. Blame 1) The Anti-2A Congesspeople that acutally voted for GCA '68 and more importantly 2) the people that sent those Anti-2A members to congress. Don't expect the NRA to clean-up the mess we the people send to congress.

 

[macadore]

The BBC tried to spin this as a tightening of gun control laws.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7153339.stm

 

[JohnBT]

"If it hadn't been for the NRA, we probably would have lost ALL our gun rights in 1968. The country was in extreme turmoil."

This entire post deserves, and needs, to be read over and over again by a lot of folks.

The NRA didn't, and doesn't, have veto power or a vote in Congress. But they did use their influence to prevent a complete disaster.

John

 

[JohnBT]

BBC:

"But another campaign group, the Violence Policy Center, said the legislation had been "hijacked by the gun lobby and would now do far more harm than good".

"Rather than focusing on improving the current laws prohibiting people with certain mental health disabilities from buying guns, the bill is now nothing more than a gun lobby wish list," the VPC said."

Let's read that again, "...the bill is now nothing more than a gun lobby wish list," the Violence Policy Center said.

No wonder the GOA hasn't been heard from, it would have to say something nice about the NRA.

 

[Dave Workman]

scout26 and Pete409 are right.
GCA '68 was a runaway train. Nobody could have stopped that, and the Monday morning quarterbacks can mouth off all they want to the contrary.
It was nearly 40 years ago, people. We have new battles to fight, rather than dwell on an old one, about which too many people with their own agendas have been re-writing history.

I know some hard-core gun cranks angry about GCA'68 who weren't even born then. For the record I think GCA'68 stinks. We all do. Until we get the right Congress...and the right court rulings...we're sort of stuck with it, and not because the NRA did this or didn't do that. The NRA didn't vote on it or sign it into law.

 

[Pete409]

I want to apologize for my foul language in post #42 above on this thread. In particular, I used a common two word expression for "bovine excrement" that is not acceptable on this board and I was properly admonished for it by a Moderator. Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

Pete409

 

[ozwyn]

Yes, it is an infringement, No, it is not insanely bad because it takes an infringment that already exsists and reforms it to REDUCE the infringement.

Think of it as a good baby step to restoring our rights.

If we cannot repeal everything back to '68, we have to take the road one step at a time. It reduces abuses of the current NICS system and prevents veterans specifically who were shafted by Clinton from being shafted-for-life. (so yes, Vets are singled out, singled out to have extra support to undo the Clinton crap you have had to endure, even if you were not aware of it)

its not a bad deal, but really it is JUST A START. We still have a lot of work to do.

If you want to blame the NRA for anything, it is leaving their attempts to communicate this to the gun owning community with enough ambiguity for people to go finger pointing and thinking this is not progress.

 

[RealGun]

What's up with this "voice vote" crap? - ServiceSoon

That means the bill doesn't count in GOA or NRA ratings for Congress. No one knows who voted how. That is as opposed to a "recorded vote". It's a game.