Senate Passes NICS Improvement Act

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gc70 said:
In the real world, we have NICS.
Because Congress, the Court, and the several states won't keep violent people locked up or institutionalized. We have NICS so they can release these people out in society where they supposedly "can't arm themselves", but where they continue to wreak their havoc on society in spite of the NICS.

If you would think on that for a moment, it makes as much sense as forbidding hookers to buy red light bulbs to stop prostitution. The simple keeping and bearing of arms is as benign and innocuous as owning a red light bulb.

scout26 said:
If the Constitution is all we need, then why did the Founding Fathers create Congress to make laws and the Courts to interupt laws ???
I'm not too sure about the interruption of the law by the Court, but an understanding of the Constitution will much better explain the workings of the Constitution and Congress. Congress is given tasks and granted power to carry out those tasks. Congress is also forbidden to branch out into certain areas. One of those forbidden areas is in the realm of the keeping and bearing of arms.

As for the NRA supporting the keeping and bearing of arms by convicted violent felons and the criminally insane, if these violent people were kept locked up, the NRA wouldn't even have the opportunity to make such an announcement.

Robert Hairless: Sorry, I won't take the bait. But, I will say this: There is nothing in the Second Amendment except a prohibition upon government to infringe upon the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

To all, my opinion of the NICS and the Congress-passed "improvement" is that this act will only more deeply entrench the NICS and open more opportunities for a Congress to limit arms to law abiding citizens. I've explained my positions on this at length in this thread. Take my positions for what they are worth. Those in Congress have demonstrated their true intent. If those in Congress intended to open up an opportunity for formerly miscreant citizens to have the infringements on their rights removed, those in Congress would have funded the system already in place.

Woody

"The basis of our political systems is the right of the people to make and to alter their constitutions of government. But the Constitution which at any time exists, 'till changed by an explicit and authentic act of the whole of the People, is sacredly obligatory upon all."

George Washington, Farewell Address, September 19, 1796.
 
Dallas,

If it was a Federal agency that initially found you "disabled" and then Schumer (or someone else) went through every appropriations bill and denied funding to each agency for relief from disabilities, you could now sue in court. (previous you could not.)

If it was a state agency, well Chuck, et al. would have a hard time denying funding at the state level. And you could still sue in court.


...Unless of course, Chuck, et al. decides to defund the courts......
See (ii) and (iii) from the text of the bill that was passed with unanimious consent.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:s.amdt.3887:

A) PROGRAM FOR RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES.--

(i) IN GENERAL.--Each department or agency of the United States that makes any adjudication related to the mental health of a person or imposes any commitment to a mental institution, as described in subsection (d)(4) and (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, shall establish, not later than 120 days after the date of enactment of this Act, a program that permits such a person to apply for relief from the disabilities imposed by such subsections.

(ii) PROCESS.--Each application for relief submitted under the program required by this subparagraph shall be processed not later than 365 days after the receipt of the application. If a Federal department or agency fails to resolve an application for relief within 365 days for any reason, including a lack of appropriated funds, the department or agency shall be deemed for all purposes to have denied such request for relief without cause. Judicial review of any petitions brought under this clause shall be de novo.

(iii) JUDICIAL REVIEW.--Relief and judicial review with respect to the program required by this subparagraph shall be available according to the standards prescribed in section 925(c) of title 18, United States Code. If the denial of a petition for relief has been reversed after such judicial review, the court shall award the prevailing party, other than the United States, a reasonable attorney's fee for any and all proceedings in relation to attaining such relief, and the United States shall be liable for such fee. Such fee shall be based upon the prevailing rates awarded to public interest legal aid organizations in the relevant community.

(B) RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES.--In the case of an adjudication related to the mental health of a person or a commitment of a person to a mental institution, a record of which may not be provided to the Attorney General under paragraph (1), including because of the absence of a finding described in subparagraph (C) of such paragraph, or from which a person has been granted relief under a program established under subparagraph (A) or (B), or because of a removal of a record under section 103(e)(1)(D) of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, the adjudication or commitment, respectively, shall be deemed not to have occurred for purposes of subsections (d)(4) and (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code. Any Federal agency that grants a person relief from disabilities under this subparagraph shall notify such person that the person is no longer prohibited under 922(d)(4) or 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code, on account of the relieved disability for which relief was granted pursuant to a proceeding conducted under this subparagraph, with respect to the acquisition, receipt, transfer, shipment, transportation, or possession of firearms.

(3) NOTICE REQUIREMENT.--Effective 30 days after the date of enactment of this Act, any Federal department or agency that conducts proceedings to adjudicate a person as a mental defective under 922(d)(4) or 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code, shall provide both oral and written notice to the individual at the commencement of the adjudication process including--

(A) notice that should the agency adjudicate the person as a mental defective, or should the person be committed to a mental institution, such adjudication, when final, or such commitment, will prohibit the individual from purchasing, possessing, receiving, shipping or transporting a firearm or ammunition under section 922(d)(4) or section 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code;

And here the part about the states:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:s.amdt.3887:

SEC. 105. RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES PROGRAM REQUIRED AS CONDITION FOR PARTICIPATION IN GRANT PROGRAMS.
(a) Program Described.--A relief from disabilities program is implemented by a State in accordance with this section if the program--

(1) permits a person who, pursuant to State law, has been adjudicated as described in subsection (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, or has been committed to a mental institution, to apply to the State for relief from the disabilities imposed by subsections (d)(4) and (g)(4) of such section by reason of the adjudication or commitment;

(2) provides that a State court, board, commission, or other lawful authority shall grant the relief, pursuant to State law and in accordance with the principles of due process, if the circumstances regarding the disabilities referred to in paragraph (1), and the person's record and reputation, are such that the person will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest; and

(3) permits a person whose application for the relief is denied to file a petition with the State court of appropriate jurisdiction for a de novo judicial review of the denial.

(b) Authority To Provide Relief From Certain Disabilities With Respect to Firearms.--If, under a State relief from disabilities program implemented in accordance with this section, an application for relief referred to in subsection (a)(1) of this section is granted with respect to an adjudication or a commitment to a mental institution or based upon a removal of a record under section 102(c)(1)(B), the adjudication or commitment, as the case may be, is deemed not to have occurred for purposes of subsections (d)(4) and (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code.
 
One of those forbidden areas is in the realm of the keeping and bearing of arms.

Well the 1st is even clearer then the 2nd, so I'd bet that qualifies it as "One of those forbidden areas".

Let's review the 1st shall we ???

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Let's pick one part....
Congress shall make no law....... abridging the freedom of speech.....

Well, Libel and Slander are illegal.
You can't yell "FIRE" in crowded theather.
Kiddie porn is right out.
McCain-Feingold was held by the USSC to be Constitutional.
That's four or five laws (at least) that Congress hath made abridging free speech.

As for the NRA supporting the keeping and bearing of arms by convicted violent felons and the criminally insane, if these violent people were kept locked up, the NRA wouldn't even have the opportunity to make such an announcement.
I never said the NRA would make such an announcement, but that't the way what you propose would be played up by the media and the Anti's.


And you forget the basic premise of rights....they are not absolute, but come with responsibilities, or what might be called "reasonable restrictions", and some people just don't get it.
 
Dallas239, I don't intend to be snarky either. The bill passed just six days ago, on December 19. It has not yet been signed into law by the President. Nevertheless you predict its eventual failure to protect anyone. The prediction seems premature at best.

I don't see that you're debating the bill now anyway. Surely you know it's pointless to do so.

The issues you raise have been discussed already, your questions aren't really new to this discussion either, and they've already received responses such as Bartholomew Roberts' to your specific issue of funding.

What I think you're doing is what several others here are doing too, which is trying to beat the NRA over the head for its participation in the bill as it passed and for the fact of its passage.

I think you know that no matter how long and hard you beat the NRA over the head you will not be able to roll back the bill or withdraw the fact.

You might be able to weaken the NRA at least a little, though, but if that's your intention I wonder what profit there could be for any of us if that happens.

Gun Owners of America and its many satellites joined with Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership and other "no-compromise" gun rights groups to defeat the bill that passed. They failed.

Do you think that they would succeed in making the Congress do their will if the NRA were to disappear or be made ineffectual?
 
Info I just received from the NRA:

Copy of an article from ol' you-know-who; interesting perspective . . .

Trojan Horse Gun Control: The NRA Wins on the NICS Bill http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/trojan-horse-gun-control_b_77754.html>

By Josh Sugarmann
Founder and Executive Director of the Violence Policy Center
Posted on December 20, 2007

Last night Congress passed the "NICS Improvement Act," a bill that in prior incarnations was designed to improve the records available to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)--the national system used to screen gun buyers.

Much has been made of the bill's bi-partisan, triangulating support: Democrats! Republicans! The National Rifle Association! The Brady Campaign! Beyond this cheery bon temps, little public attention has been paid to what the bill actually does beyond its title. And that's because if you start looking at the details of the bill--especially after NRA-backed changes made by Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn--it becomes clear that the measure is nothing less than a pro-gun Trojan Horse. That's why my organization, the Violence Policy Center, and other national gun control groups, have voiced their strong concerns <http://www.vpc.org/press/0712nics.htm> about the version of the bill that was passed by Congress. Concerns that have been validated by none other than the NRA which, after the bill's passage issued a press release <http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3321> which crowed:

"After months of careful negotiation, pro-gun legislation was passed through Congress today. The National Rifle Association (NRA) worked closely with Senator Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) to address his concerns regarding H.R. 2640, the National Instant Check System (NICS) Improvement Act. These changes make a good bill even better. The end product is a win for American gun owners. Late yesterday, anti-gun Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA), failed to delay progress of this pro-gun measure. The Violence Policy Center, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence and other gun control and gun ban groups are opposed to the passage of this legislation because of the many pro-gun improvements contained within."

So why's the NRA so in thrall with an alleged gun control bill? Here are some of the reasons why.

The bill would resuscitate a failed government program that spent millions of dollars annually to allow persons prohibited from buying guns to regain the ability to legally acquire firearms. The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) would be required to establish a "relief from disability" program to allow persons now prohibited from possessing a firearm because they have "been adjudicated as a mental defective" or "committed to a mental institution" to apply to have their bar on firearms possession removed. As a result of the bill, more than 116,000 individuals would be eligible to apply. States would also be required to establish such "relief" programs to restore the gun privileges of those with mental health disabilities in order to be eligible for potential grant money to upgrade records submitted to the NICS.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) used to run a similar program that, in addition to those with mental disabilities, even allowed felons to apply for "relief." Annual costs for the ATF program ballooned to more than $4 million in 1991, with an average cost of $4,800 per applicant and 43 full-time employees dedicated to processing the applications. Congress shut down the ATF program in 1992 because of its high cost, inefficiency, and threat to public safety (among those re-armed with your tax dollars: kidnappers, rapists, and terrorists).

The bill also sets an arbitrary time limit for the VA to act on applications for "relief." If the agency fails to act within 365 days, applicants can file a lawsuit asking a court to restore their gun privileges--even if Congress fails to provide the VA with the appropriate resources to process these investigations. Some prevailing applicants would be entitled to attorneys' fees.

This provision is contrary to a unanimous 2002 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that ATF's failure to act on a relief application from a felon (because of a lack of appropriations) did not constitute a denial that would entitle the applicant to judicial review.
The decision noted that courts are ill-equipped to make decisions on individual applications for "relief" under the standards that would apply under the "NICS Improvement Act," stating: "Whether an applicant is `likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety' presupposes an inquiry into that applicant's background--a function best performed by the Executive, which, unlike courts, is institutionally equipped for conducting a neutral, wide-ranging investigation. Similarly, the `public interest' standard calls for an inherently policy-based decision best left in the hands of an agency."

The bill significantly narrows the category of records of people with mental disabilities that would be submitted to the NICS by the federal government. The current permanent bar on persons with certain mental health disabilities would be replaced with
temporary restrictions.

Once a solution, the bill--hijacked by the gun lobby--is now part of the problem. Intended as Congress' response to the mass shooting at Virginia Tech by focusing on improving the current laws prohibiting people with certain mental health disabilities from buying guns, the bill is now nothing more than a gun lobby wish list. It will waste millions of taxpayer dollars restoring the gun privileges of persons previously determined to present a danger to themselves or others.

Yes, the bill does authorize $200 million dollars a year for five years to improve the submission of mental health records to the NICS (even the Brady law, authorized at the same level, has never come anywhere near such a level of actual funding). But does anyone really believe that the NRA is going to lobby the appropriations committees to fully fund the measure? They'll be spending their time ensuring that there's just enough money to fund the components of the bill they really care about--like the federal and state "relief from disability" programs--and that no one else seems to want to talk about. The bottom line: the known "bad" in this bill far outweighs the hoped-for "good."

The concerns over these aspects of the bill are not abstract. According to research published earlier this year, male U.S. veterans are twice as likely to commit suicide as men with no military service and are more likely to kill themselves with a gun than others who commit suicide. The men with a military background were 58 percent more likely to have used a firearm to kill themselves than non-veterans who committed suicide. Add to this the fact that veterans are more likely to own guns than the general population.

Veterans with mental health problems may present special risks for gun violence. In 2000, the New York Times examined 100 rampage shootings and found that the majority (52 percent) of such killers had been in the military. The Times' review also found that 47 percent of rampage killers had a history of mental problems, with 42 percent having been seen by mental health professionals.

When the inevitable tragedies occur as a result of this bill, and veterans with mental health disabilities--given guns instead of help--turn these weapons on themselves, their families, or the public, the inevitable question will be, "How did this happen?" When that question is asked, who will be willing to answer it?


www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/trojan-horse-gun-control_b_77754.html




If ol' Josh is against it, it can't be all bad!!:D
 
Scout and Hairless,

My point is that no section of this law is immune from effective repeal via appropriations bill. Even the sections that 1) grant money to the state and 2) create a federal cause of action if an agency fails to act. My question was not, "Can this happen?" It was "Why won't this happen?" It is absolutely clear to me that it can happen. Bart is correct in so far as this bill attempts to remove the problem the court found in Mr. Bean's case. But the method used to create the process doesn't change the fact that next year's appropriations bill can take it all away.

As the Supreme Court wrote in 1940:
There can be no doubt that Congress could suspend or repeal the authorization contained in Section 9, and it could accomplish its purpose by an amendment to an appropriation bill, or otherwise.
US v. Dickerson, 310 U.S. 554, 555 (1940).

Even the NRA doesn't deny that this new process could be rendered moot via an appropriations rider, they just claim that they "naturally" would fight such an action. Hence my follow up question, which also remains unanswered.

MYTH: The bill’s “relief from disability” provisions are useless because Congress has defunded the “relief” program.

FACT: The current ban on processing relief applications wouldn’t affect this bill. The appropriations rider (promoted in 1992 by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.)) only restricts expenditures by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. H.R. 2640 requires relief programs to be set up and operated by agencies that make adjudications or commitments related to people’s mental health. BATFE doesn’t do that, but other agencies—especially the Veterans’ Administration—do. Naturally, NRA would strongly oppose any effort to remove funding from new “relief” programs set up under this widely supported bill.

So the question remains. Why do you believe that something that has been happening yearly for 15 years won't happen next year?

Hairless,

How can I be premature in "predicting" that Congress will do something that they've already been doing annually for more than a decade?

How am I "beating the NRA over the head" when I point out that they claim they will do something in the future that they have failed to do for over a decade? If I'm wrong, then you can easily prove it by showing us how the NRA has been lobbying against Schumer's (originally Tihart IIRC) appropriations amendments. If you want to discuss whether I do or don't support the NRA in general and why, you should start another thread. But if you have an answer to my question, I would be interested to read it.
 
Well, Libel and Slander are illegal.
You can't yell "FIRE" in crowded theather.
Kiddie porn is right out.
McCain-Feingold was held by the USSC to be Constitutional.
That's four or five laws (at least) that Congress hath made abridging free speech.

All of the items you listed harm people through the use of speech. Merely posessing a firearm harms no one. Apples and oranges. The only laws concerning weapons should be about when they are used to harm people, nothing on merely keeping or bearing them. The founders and others of their times argued people should have the freedom to do anything until it actually infringes on another's rights, and I agree with them.
 
Let me see if I have this right...
For the bill - Brady and NRA
Against the bill - VPC and GOA
Talk about strange bedfellows!
 
Dallas,

I'm not going to play "What If".... as in: What if Diane Fienstein could get 51 Senators together and say "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in."

As I've previously pointed out, they would have to go through ecah agency's apporpriations bill and strip that provision out. But you have to remember that one hand washes the other. All it would take is for another senator to say "If you take out the relief program from the VA, I'll strip one of your earmarks out of another bill."

And yes, congress could change this law at anytime. This is at least the third change to the original Brady bill. So yes, anything can and probably will happen. But, being against it because congress could change it, will guarantee that nothing will improve.

The bottom line is that the current system is broken. Once any state of federal agency puts you on the list, your on forever, period, end, full stop. With this bill you there is a process to get off the list. Yes, congress could do all kinds of things to make it harder. But as soon as the president signs it that's the process we've got. Yes, next year Durbin, Kennedey, Schumer and/or Kerry try to defund it. But they'd have to also then defund the courts to prevent the "No answer in year, you can go to court and sue" provision.

And yes, the NRA fights every year to get the BATFE's relief program funding. So for all of you nay-sayers and NRA bashers, how many phone calls and letters have you written to your senator and representatives telling them to fund the program ??? And what are you going to do if congress tries to defund the relief programs ???


The concerns over these aspects of the bill are not abstract. According to research published earlier this year, male U.S. veterans are twice as likely to commit suicide as men with no military service and are more likely to kill themselves with a gun than others who commit suicide. The men with a military background were 58 percent more likely to have used a firearm to kill themselves than non-veterans who committed suicide. Add to this the fact that veterans are more likely to own guns than the general population.

Veterans with mental health problems may present special risks for gun violence. In 2000, the New York Times examined 100 rampage shootings and found that the majority (52 percent) of such killers had been in the military. The Times' review also found that 47 percent of rampage killers had a history of mental problems, with 42 percent having been seen by mental health professionals.

As a veteran, words cannot begin to express my anger and resentment at these paragraphs from the VPC.
 
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NICS Improvement Act perspective from Rep. Carolyn McCarthy

Posted FYI -- text bolded for emphasis

A Response to Josh Sugarmann
Posted July 27, 2007 | 12:26 PM (EST)

As the author of the NICS Improvement Act, I must take issue with Mr. Sugarmann's criticisms of my legislation. After Virginia Tech, the public took a long overdue look at the failings of our current background check system. What they found was staggering. Hundreds of thousands of disqualified individuals slipping through the cracks to purchase guns legally with no questions asked.

Because of the Virginia Tech shooter's personal history, much of the focus was put on the rights of the mentally ill to own firearms. And while I strongly believe those who have been adjudicated mentally defective by a judge should be included in the NICS system, we should also remember that half of the states have submitted less than 60% of their felony convictions into the NICS system and a third of those served with a restraining order stemming from domestic violence are also excluded from the NICS database.

This legislation does include a reinstatement process for those disqualified from owning a gun because of a mental adjudication. It is important to point out that any reinstatement procedure must take in an adversarial due process setting before a judge. A doctor's note cannot restore the gun rights of someone who has been mentally adjudicated. In fact, the process for regaining gun rights will be as rigorous as being placed in the NICS system.

Mr. Sugarmann also points out that veterans placed in the NICS system by the Veterans Administration will be removed from the database. This is simply because the VA's guidelines for placing veterans on the NICS list are not consistent with that of the Department of Justice (DOJ), who administers the database. Many veterans lost their gun rights for simply seeking counseling for depression or another non-violent condition related to their military service. The DOJ only places mentally ill individuals into NICS if they have been adjudicated a threat by a judge.

The author must also consider the political realities of Washington. Despite the efforts of Mr. Sugarmann and many others, the National Rifle Association still wields tremendous influence in the halls of Congress and their blessing is required for any bill that enforces or creates gun laws. This bill is the only vehicle that could have passed the House and ensured that hundreds of thousands of convicted felons, spousal abusers, and mentally ill individuals would be unable to purchase a gun legally. Will a few existing disqualified individuals slip through the cracks? Unfortunately, yes, but once this measure becomes law, fewer and fewer new offenders will be able to buy guns because of a NICS loophole.

In listing the three anti-gun violence organizations that have reservations about my bill, Mr. Sugarmann inadvertently addresses why the NRA has such power while the efforts of organizations working to prevent gun violence have been futile for close to a decade. The NRA is consolidated into a single cohesive unit, but the groups working for common sense gun laws are many and each possess their own agenda and points of view. Only when these groups join forces for common legislative goals will we be able to prevail not only in the halls of Congress, but in state legislatures and city halls across the country as well.

Please visit, http://carolynmccarthy.house.gov/"
 
Of Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, I would like to ask her if hundreds of thousands of disqualified individuals are slipping through the cracks to purchase guns legally with no questions asked, why isn't there hundreds of thousands of more incidents such as VT occurring at the malls, churches, other schools and other "gun free" zones?

Either there is something wrong with her numbers or the "standards" used to "disqualify" individuals. The system needs to be trashed and those who are actually untrustworthy should be locked up. We'll be safer and not suffer infringements that hinder our ability to protect ourselves from those who slither through some crack somewhere, or haven't been caught yet.

It would be better to tackle this problem of violent criminals and the mentally unstable up close and personal at the time of adjudication and incarcerate them rather than cast them out upon society and rely upon a fallible system on the chance that these people are dumb enough to only attempt to arm themselves at places where the NICS will intercept. Boy, talk about something insane...

Woody
 
Sen. Leahy thanks Vermont's Paco Aumond for helping produce the amendments for the final NICS Improvement Act.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r110:1:./temp/~r1105WCcn5::

Mr. SCHUMER. Madam President, I ask unanimous consent the Judiciary Committee be discharged from further consideration of H.R. 2640 and the Senate proceed to its immediate consideration.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered. The clerk will report the bill by title.

The assistant legislative clerk read as follows:

A bill (H.R. 2640) to improve the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and for other purposes.

There being no objection, the Senate proceeded to consider the bill.

Mr. LEAHY. Madam President, today, the Senate took an important step forward to improve the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, NICS, the Nation's background check system for gun purchases. Along with Senator Schumer, I have worked hard to craft this compromise legislation that respects the rights of gun owners and, at the same time, makes sure that the NICS system will work more effectively. This compromise has not been easy, as many have strong views on issues surrounding this bill, but working with Senators on both sides of the aisle, we have forged strong, fair legislation to address serious shortcomings in the Federal program. Throughout the process, we have taken great care to make sure Federal law governing who can own or possess a firearm remains unchanged. The Senate language makes clear that the correct records will go into the NICS system, that any records improperly in NICS will be removed promptly, that legal notice and due process considerations will be required in Federal proceedings, and that the States have sufficient support to meet the goals of the bill. We have been responsive to the legitimate concerns of veterans and advocates on both sides of the issue, and at the same time, we have worked hard to correct weaknesses that have been exposed by the tragic events of the last year.

The senseless loss of life at Virginia Tech this spring revealed serious flaws in the NICS system, particularly in the transfer of mental health information

[Page: S15971] GPO's PDF

relevant to gun purchases between the States and the Federal Government. Deficiencies in the current NICS system, including a significant lack of funding, permitted the perpetrator of this terrible crime to obtain firearms and ammunition despite having a mental health history that made him ineligible to buy or possess a firearm under Federal law. He was able to pass a background check and purchase the weapons he used in his attacks because data was missing from the NICS system.

In response to this devastating tragedy, the Judiciary Committee worked hard to produce a comprehensive legislative proposal related to issues of school safety, and in August unanimously reported the School Safety and Law Enforcement Improvement Act of 2007, SSLEIA, to the full Senate. As part of this legislative package, we drafted title II of SSLEIA to include an amended version of the NICS Amendment Improvement Act of 2007, H.R. 2640, that passed the House in July. Today, the Senate passed a revision of title II from SSLEIA, as the Leahy-Schumer amendment to H.R. 2640, which closes the gaps in the NICS system that allowed the purchase of the firearms that were used in the Virginia Tech killings. I hope the House of Representatives will take up and pass H.R. 2640, as amended, as soon as possible.

The Leahy-Schumer amendment largely mirrors the language of H.R. 2640 as passed by the House. But it also makes modest but important changes to that bill in order to ensure this new law works effectively and fairly for all Americans. It creates a legal regime where the reporting of disqualifying mental health records, both at the State and Federal levels, will be improved. This bill will also require Federal agencies to report mental health and other disqualifying records into NICS and would create significant new incentives for States to report this same information. These basic features of the amendment are the same as in the House bill. Additionally, the bill contains provisions directing Federal agencies to establish relief from disabilities programs through which individuals who have overcome a disqualifying mental illness or disability may reclaim their rights, and urges the States to do the same.

As I reviewed this issue, however, I determined that additional changes were necessary both to improve the NICS system further and to better enable States like Vermont to implement these improvements. By tempering the penalties for insufficient participation by the States in meeting the bill's goals, and increasing incentives for full participation, I am hopeful that the bill will strengthen the partnership between Federal and State authorities in search of a common goal. The NICS system is only as good as the information that is reported into it, and to achieve success in improving NICS, we must recognize and adequately support the States in this challenging undertaking.

I want to thank Paco Aumond, director of Criminal Justice Services at the Vermont Department of Public Safety, for working with me to identify those changes in the legislation to ensure that Vermont and the many similarly situated States will be more easily able to make the comprehensive improvements necessary for a more effective NICS system.

Nothing can bring back the lives tragically lost at Virginia Tech, and no legislation can be a panacea, but the bill we pass today will begin to repair and restore our faith in the NICS system and may help prevent similar tragedies in the future.

Mr. SCHUMER. I ask unanimous consent a Leahy-Schumer substitute amendment at the desk be agreed to, the bill as amended be read a third time and passed, the motions to reconsider be laid upon the table with no intervening action or debate, and that any statements related to the bill be printed in the Record.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.

The substitute amendment (No. 3887) was agreed to.

(The text of the amendment is printed in today's Record under ``Text of Amendments.'')

The bill (H.R. 2640), as amended, was read the third time and passed.

The amendment was ordered to be engrossed and the bill to be read a third time.
 
I think it should be called the NICS Entrenchment Act. All it does is dig a deeper hole for its tap root to sap more usurpation of power from all the fertilizer Congress has spread all over, under, around, and throughout the Constitution.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Woody
 
I failed to notice the date on McCarthy's response. Please excuse this lapse. It has been posted and discussed before at
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=292066

Her more recently stated opinion of the NICS Improvement Act, as found on her web site, is:

Carolyn McCarthy Calls on President Bush to Sign Common Sense Gun Legislation
Thursday December 20, 2007

(Washington) “Today is eleven years in the making. Congress has finally sent common sense gun legislation to the President to be signed into law.

On March 12, 2002, a senseless shooting took the lives of a priest and a parishioner at the Our Lady of Peace Church in Lynbrook, New York. The man who committed this double murder had a disqualifying mental health condition and a restraining order against him, but passed a background check because his personal history was not entered into the NICS database. This same scenario happens every day.

The shooter in the Virginia Tech massacre was prohibited from purchasing a firearm. Unfortunately, flaws in the NICS system allowed his record to slip through the cracks. He was able to purchase two handguns, and used them to brutally murder THIRTY TWO individuals. We saw this trend continue last week with shootings in Nebraska and Colorado.

Individuals who shouldn’t have access to guns are getting them with ease are our killing innocent people. The NICS system is supposed to prevent this from happening, but a database is only as good as the information put in it and many states don’t have the resources to keep the NICS database up to date.

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is deeply flawed. That is why I introduced the NICS Improvement Act.

This legislation will provide grants to states to update their records into the NICS system. States would get the funds they need to make sure records relevant to NICS are up to date.

This bill poses no new burden on law-abiding gun owners or gun sellers.
It simply enforces current law. This legislation has the widest range of support imaginable. The National Rifle Association and the Brady Campaign have endorsed this legislation.

We have worked across both partisan and ideological lines to make this bill law. The cooperation from members of both parties and from people on both sides of the gun issue should serve as a model for this Congress.

We can work together to find common sense solutions to our problems.
These problems shouldn’t divide us, but bring us together to make our country a safer and better place.

Personally, this is a very important moment for me. I have been fighting for common sense gun laws for 14 years since my own life was changed forever by gun violence.

Tonight, I’m one step closer to the goal of making sure other families never have to experience what mine did 14 years ago.

Congress has spoken, now it is time for President Bush to sign this common sense legislation into law.”
 
As mentioned in other posts, Sen. Coburn had earlier placed a hold on this bill and was applauded by the GOA as an ally.

Here are his remarks on the floor of the Senate as the improved legislation was introduced on 12-19.
From http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/B?r110:mad:FIELD(FLD003+s)+@FIELD(DDATE+20071219), click on item 25.

"Mr. President, later today, Senator Schumer will bring up the Criminal Background Check Improvement Act, which is an important piece of legislation. When this bill was originally hotlined, we asked that it be held so that we could discuss the improvements to the bill.

This bill came out of the tragedy at Virginia Tech. It is important that the American people understand that what we are changing in this bill would not have prevented what happened at Virginia Tech. What happened to the individuals there was because the law we have on the books was not followed by the State of Virginia. They recognized that shortly thereafter and have made corrective action to it.

What is also important to note is that under the previous legislation we have had, over $400 million a year was authorized to help the States implement the programs so that somebody who is truly a danger to themselves or others or has been admitted to a mental institution and considered mentally defective--that is a term of the bureaucracy--is not allowed to purchase a gun. We all agree to that in this country. So when you don't follow the law, the laws don't work. Consequently, the families are suffering great grief at this time because the law wasn't followed.

Too often, the first reaction of Congress is to hurry up and pass a bill. There are and have been in this bill some good ideas. But there were some bad ideas. The idea of holding the bill to be able to work with those who are offering the bill to get improvements has come about. The principle is this: As we protect people from the dangers of weapons by withholding both criminals and those people who constitute a threat to themselves and others, we can't do that if we are going to step on the rights of those who have a right and who are not in that category.

I wish to take a moment to thank Senator Schumer for his hard work and Elliot of his staff for his hard work and to recognize my staff, Jane Treat and Brooke Bacak and others on my staff who worked through the last couple of months to improve this bill. We have come out to make sure those people, veterans in this country who go out and defend, with their lives, bodies, and their futures, our rights, aren't inappropriately losing their rights under this legislation.

It is interesting for the American people to know that at this time, if you are a veteran and you come home with a closed head injury and you resolve that, then, in fact, by the time you wake up and recover over a year or 2-year period, you will have lost all your rights to bear an arm to be able to go hunting, to be able to skeet shoot, to be able to hunt with your grandchildren, without any notification whatsoever that you have lost that right. That is the present law. That is what is happening.

We have 140,000 veterans with no history of mental deficiency, no history of being dangerous to themselves or others, who have lost, without notice, their right to go hunting, to skeet shoot, to have that kind of outing in this wonderful country of ours in a legal, protected sense. What this bill does is it attempts to address that by giving them an opportunity for relief. It mandates that, first of all, they are notified if that happens to them so that they know they are losing their rights. What a tragedy it would be if a veteran who lost his rights but doesn't know it becomes incarcerated under a felony for hunting with his grandson because it is illegal for him to own, handle, or transmit a weapon? That is not what we intended to do in this Congress some 10 years ago. Yet that is the real effect of what is happening.

Consequently, we are at a point now where we have agreed with the fact that we want to make sure--and we want to put the resources through this authorization--it covers those who could be a danger to themselves and others, and we are going to help the States implement this law, the law on the books, by authorizing significant sums to do this. It is not a new authorization; $400 million was authorized before, but the appropriators didn't appropriate it. They chose to make a higher priority. The most ever appropriated under this, I think, was $23 million a year.

So, in fact, what we want to do now is say we mean it, which means when it comes to appropriations time, this authorization will have no effect unless, in fact, we appropriate the money to the States to carry out this notification system. It is something we can and must do. It shows that when we work together to solve the problems and protect the future and honor the Constitution, the rights under the Constitution, we can do that if people of good faith and of good intent work together to solve that.

My compliments to Senator Schumer and his staff and Hendrik Van Der Vaart on my staff for the hours and hours we have put in to make sure this happened.

A couple other key points. Sometimes the bureaucracy delays whether or not you are on this list. So we have said that, at the end of the year, if they can't decide, it is going to be adjudicated that you cannot have a gun and you will have to prove that you can. That is fair enough, provided we create the means with which you can recover the cost of that adjudication. So if, in fact, you get to Federal court and you win your case that there is not anything wrong with you, the Federal Government is going to pay your lawyer's fees and return your rights--the rights given to everybody else in this country--return your wrongly denied rights back to you.

Therefore, we really, truly do give access to those who have been injured under this law and, at the same time, protect the rest of the American public from those who could be injured when we don't follow the law.

I also pay tribute to Congresswoman McCarthy. I served with her in the House. She has been dedicated to this issue for years. She suffered a terrible tragedy herself at the hands of somebody who was obviously deranged. This will mark a milestone for one of the things she wanted to accomplish during her service in the Congress.

It is my hope that others will not hold this bill. It is my hope that when it comes appropriations time, the moneys that are necessary to put the people who really are a danger to themselves and others on the national criminal background check, that they will get there, and that those who should not be there will not be there. So it is a balance, a balance for protection, but it is also a balance to preserve rights, especially for our veterans--the very people who continue to protect our rights. They are going to be preserved.

Myself and Senator Schumer sent a letter to the ATF asking them to reconsider some of the wording in their ruling because it puts people in there who should not be. We are hopeful that they recognize that, and that they, because of a bipartisan query, do a rulemaking process that really directs this where it should be. When that happens, we will have finished everything we need to do, except get the dollars appropriated to implement this act.

Again, my hat is off to Senator Schumer and those who have worked tirelessly to get this done. It is with great appreciation for the manner in which it was handled, and it is my hope that we will pass this on and see the great accomplishments of protecting people from those who are a danger to themselves and others.

I yield the floor and suggest the absence of a quorum."


My personal thoughts: a step in the right direction that cost a lot of turmoil in the pro gun community. I've only seen one post anywhere from a GOA member who has concluded the GOA was over the top on this one.

I believe egg is on the menu for Mr. Pratt for awhile.
 
Congressman John Dingell's view of the NICS Improvement Act passed by Congress

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/mi15_dingell/PR071219nics.shtml

Congressman John D. Dingell
Serving Michigan's 15th Congressional District
NEWS RELEASE Contact: Adam Benson

December 19, 2007
202/225-4071 (office)
202/271-8587 (cell)


Dingell: NICS Improvements will Benefit Both Lawful Gun Owners and Law Enforcement



Washington, DC - Congressman John D. Dingell (D-MI15) released the following statement this evening after the House passed Senate amendments to H.R. 2640, the National Instant Criminal Background System (NICS) Improvement Amendments Act of 2007, which will now go to the President for his signature:

“Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY04) and I first offered this legislation in 2002, when it became obvious to us that the NICS System was not working as Congress had intended it to. Those shortcomings were highlighted earlier this year when a gunman with a history of mental illness shot and killed thirty-two people and wounded many more. Cho Sun Hui had been adjudicated mentally ill by the state of Virginia, and under the law should not have been able to purchase the guns he used to kill his classmates. This legislation will ensure that individuals like Cho Sun Hui are included in the NICS database.

“This legislation will also benefit lawful gun purchasers, many of whom face unnecessary delays when waiting for their background check to be completed. For the first time since the creation of NICS, it will live up to its name and be both national and instant. It also benefits those who have been wrongfully included in the NICS database by providing a mechanism for petitioning the government for removal from the system. This is an important improvement which will strengthen the Second Amendment rights of all Americans.

“There are many people who should be thanked for their hard work on this bill, but I would like to take just a moment to recognize a few of those people. Representative McCarthy and I have worked on NICS improvement legislation for a few years now and while most would say we are an odd pair when it comes to this particular issue, I would suggest we are just two legislators trying to fix a legitimate problem. I have tremendous respect for Representative McCarthy; it has been an honor and privilege to work with her. I would also like to thank Senator Chuck Schumer for his hard work and dedication. Lastly, I would like to thank the National Rifle Association (NRA). The NRA’s support for this legislation has been invaluable and is a testament to the NRA’s commitment to passing sensible and responsible legislation to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill.”


# # #
 
Actually, I think Ms. McCarthy wants something... ANYTHING ... passed with her name attached, to convince her li'l army of urbanites she's doing, well, SOMETHING!
 
Re all the posts/arguments on this so-called NICS Improvement Act, one poster noted that "it was passed just 6 days ago". Another noted that it has yet to be signed by the president. If I may, what happens in the event that Bush vetoes the thing. He has done that a couple of times, and I suppose that same could happen here too. Think such a veto, if utilized, would suffer an over ride?
 
The bill was passed by a voice vote in the House and by unanimous consent in the Senate. Those votes would suggest that a veto would be senseless and an override nearly assured.
 
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