Separating Cases for Handguns

[noylj]

I have not believed that sorting headstamps would make any difference in group size using a handgun.
Since I kept reading about people sorting their brass, I started to sort my brass at the range with my .40S&W (Loaded random cases and sorted at the range).
I have a majority of Winchester brass, so frequently, out of 10 rounds, I could sort out 5 Win and the rest a rather bizarre mix of cases. In about 10% of the time, I had 5 Federal cases and the other 5 were mixed.
This way, the loading of all the cases was the same so there was no bias. Shooting, all I concentrated on was aligning the red dot in the center of the bull at 25 yards off a pistol rest.
The following are the averages and the Std. Dev. for these series:
Case Avg S.Dev.
Federal 3.54 0.70
Mixed 2.55 0.76
Win 2.67 1.04
Based on this, there is no difference in accuracy between mixed head stamps and Winchester--but notice that the std. dev. of the mixed cases it still less then the Win cases.
However, my gun does not seem to like Federal cases very much--although, there were frequently one or two Federal cases in the mixed cases being fired since I estimate that about 30% of my cases are Federal.
This may not be totally definitive, but it does represent over 100 5-shot groups.

 

[cfullgraf]

i have never bothered much with sorting cases for pistols but i can tell there is a difference in them between brands when reloading.

The bullseye crowd might noticed a difference.

I have a Smith 25-5 that does not like W-W cases, they stick in the cylinder. So, I only have R-P cases. The R-P work fine. This was 25 years ago and I haven't tried any other 45 Colt brass since.

I'm a bit more fussy about my rifle cases.

 

[LiveLife]

noylj, unless you started out with verified once-fired brass with hand weighed bullets/powder charges, your test data would be affected by how many times each brass case was reloaded and what kind of powder charges were. Metal characteristics will change with each firing and steadily get less pliable and eventually lead to split cases. The slight SD may have variable input from the cases, but also from other reloading variables like bullet weight variations (1-5+ gr) and powder charge variations (.1-.2+ gr).

It would be interesting if you repeated the test with verified once fired cases, bullets weighed the same (less than 1 gr) and hand weighed powder charges (less than .1 gr variation).

When I was chasing after developing accurate match grade reloads, I weighed bullets and made sure they were all same, hand weighed powder charges, used same head stamp cases, etc. etc. Now days, I just make sure the bullets are within 1 gr variance, powder throws are within .1 gr variance and even use mixed head stamp cases for match grade reloads. They are more accurate than I am capable of shooting them.

 

[Ala Dan]

I see NO need to separate handgun cases by head stamp~!

 

[Sam1911]

I shoot range pick-up brass, once- twice- or a million-times fired, almost exclusively. (It's too darned hard to find .44 Spc. range brass! Something I'd like to see change. I'm going to call my legislators. Aaanyway...)

I used to sort pistol brass, and then realized that I was spending a lot of time for no tangible benefit.

 

[Rodentman]

I don't sort brass, but I DO notice that some mfrs "feel" different in the dies. Even after resizing, some brands require more force to seat a bullet than others. I think a thou or two can be felt in the reloading process, and I notice no issues with firing the reloads, but there are differences in brass. How much it matters is another issue.............

 

[capreppy]

I do sort my brass, but 90% of my .45ACP is R-P or Winchester. The rest is range pickup that I also sort, but I don't have enough to add to my reloading rotation (minimum of 500 of a headstamp before it enters rotation).

I'm just anal. In addition, reloading Winchester requires a little more effort on my part (decapping / sizing / priming is a little harder than my R-P brass). I've got 500 Winchester and nearly 4K of R-P. I'm about to order another couple of thousand .45ACP and it is likely to be mostly Federal & Winchester. I'll add those to my rotation when I get them in.

I also have 3k 9mm Luger and just ordered another 6. Those will continue to be sorted by head stamp as well.

 

[1SOW]

I sort pistol brass because of 'feel' when pulling my press handle.

On my press, ATK brass is much 'softer' than Win, PPU, & R&P. Bullet seating die: Win, Win, Win, "slam"=Federal, etc.
I shoot them all, but load by headstamp. As BDS said, after I've loaded a Win 'enough' times, it won't have the same pull as a fresher Win case.

 

[REL1203]

I have 4 Large Ammo cans, each filled to the brim with either 40S&W, 45ACP, 9MM, 357Mag brass, all are not sorted, i never found the benefit in sorting Brass for handgun personally.

 

[sweater914]

I sort my brass, but it's more of a peace of mind thing than chasing accuracy. With several different calibers in my range pickup pile, sorting by headstamp is just one more step to make sure the correct caliber goes into the right bag, especially 9mm and .380.

 

[243winxb]

Bullet Setback Or Double Charger?

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=506938 Different brass, different neck tension.

 

[Slamfire]

I believe powder choice in handgun cartridges is more critical in reducing velocity spreads than primers or cases.

Bullseye is one of these powders that gives a good initial kick when it goes off, and a very constant kick, which is what you want for a semi automatic mechanism. If you were to look at the data below you will see that the standard deviation is actually quite low. I assume the chronograph standard deviation means that 68% of all shots will be within one standard deviation from the mean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Deviation. Bullseye provides very constant and small standard deviations, and quite reasonable extreme spreads. Blue Dot, a powder I hate, gives standard deviations from 44 fps to 84 fps and extreme velocity spreads in the 300 fps range.

However, I would be hard put to claim that I can hold hard enough to tell a difference between tight extreme spreads and loose extreme spreads.

I shoot my pistols offhand. The greatest errors I have are aiming errors and trigger pull errors. A slight misalignment of the sights and I am off by yards. Jerk the trigger and the bullet is also off by yards.

Stop worrying about the small stuff and just shoot until you are arse deep in brass.

When the mound of brass is higher than your belt buckle, you should be getting the hang of it.

[SIZE="3"]Kimber Custom Classic 45 ACP


200 LSWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WLP  21-Jun-06   T = 97 °F
OAL 1.250" taper crimp 0.469" Excellent accuracy

Ave Vel =	748.2		
Std Dev =	10.86		
ES=	41.52		
High=	763.2		
Low=	721.7		
N =	22		



230 gr LRN Valiant 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP			
21-Jun-06 T = 97  °F OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469" Excellent accuracy
			
Ave Vel =	805.2					
Std Dev =	11.4					
ES=	54.08				
High=	836.9				 	
Low=	782.8				 	
N =	32					
						

2” M638 Airweight S&W Bodyguard 38 Spl

158 LSWC 3.5 grs Bullseye Mixed brass WSP		
18-Mar-07   T = 52 °F
					
Ave Vel =	611.1		 		
Std Dev =	9.64		 		
ES=	28.05		 		
High=	626.3		 		
Low=	598.3		 		
N =	32				
					
4" S&W M10 38 Spl			
					
158 LRN  3.5grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP 		
19-Mar-06 T = 52 °F					
Ave Vel =	739.4				
Std Dev =	12.32				 
ES=	57.03				 
High=	775.3				 
Low=	718.3				 
N =	32
S&W No. 3 Handejector 3.25" barrel 32 S&W Long							
100 gr LBBFP .313" Valiant 2.25 grs Bullseye SS Brass WSP		
 19-Mar-06 T = 51 °F

							
Ave Vel =	693.3					
Std Dev =	20.71			 		
ES=	103.9				 		
High=	721.8				 		
Low=	617.9				 		
N =	32

9 mm M92 FS Beretta Bar Sto Barrel

				 
125 LRN Valiant .356"  4.0 grs Bullseye S&W cases WSP OAL 1.110" 	
27-Mar-06 T = 58 °F
					
  Ave Vel =	1114			
Std Dev = 20.63			 
ES= 79.03	 		 
High= 1167	 		 
Low= 1088	 		
N = 32	 	[/SIZE]

 

[Cop Bob]

Never found a need to separate pistol cases... now I'm anal as heck about rifle stuff but pistols, especially loaded to mid-range target velocity's... never a problem.

Some guns are finicky with nickel cases, they tend to be a little stickier. I also have noted that Colt revolvers have generally tighter cambers than Smiths and sizing die adjustment is more critical.. I used to have a bit of an issue with this years ago when I was the owner of a Phelps Press (same as a Star)

But lately, with good old Dillon Dies... my life has improved vastly...

 

[918v]

your test data would be affected by how many times each brass case was reloaded

I doubt that.

I reloaded a single 9mm case thirty times in one sitting, measuring growth and case expansion, and found the case did not work harden enough for my Starrett dial caliper to notice.

 

[rcmodel]

I sort all brass by headstamp.
Reason being, it is not all the same.

See this about that:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6966298&postcount=1

rc

 

[Walkalong]

I believe powder choice in handgun cartridges is more critical in reducing velocity spreads than primers or cases.

I agree.


I have no doubt sorted cases shoot a hair better (I have tried it both ways to check accuracy and ES/SD numbers), but I also know my mixed brass shoots awfully well, and that I can't shoot as well as my mixed brass loads 99% of the time, so I don't worry about it.

 

[TGReaper]

Something different I separate my .38 spl. brass by colour, because my Mod.52 S&W feeds nickel plated cases more reliably than it feeds plain brass.
I have not noticed any difference with my .45s.
TGR