"Serenity"--a gun slinging libertarian western in space (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Cosmoline
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Cosmoline
Member
COMPLETELY FULL OF SPOILERS AT THIS POINT
That's a really good point. I really think the quest for the hidden planet would have a two season arc at least. Whedon has indicated he's open to a sequel or more TV shows, but he didn't leave anything so loose as to require one.
Initial box office estimates from Friday are 3.9 million. That's second to the star vehicle "Flightplan" at 4.4 in its second week, but "Serenity" is playing on a lot fewer screens. If it builds over Sat. and Sunday and keeps a steady flow for a few weeks it should be set to clear out over $75 million in domestic and international. The budget was under $40 and they've kept advertising and print runs very low, so that's plenty. The reviews have been very positive and it should have good legs to run and run on word of mouth just like the DVD of the series did.
That's a really good point. I really think the quest for the hidden planet would have a two season arc at least. Whedon has indicated he's open to a sequel or more TV shows, but he didn't leave anything so loose as to require one.
Initial box office estimates from Friday are 3.9 million. That's second to the star vehicle "Flightplan" at 4.4 in its second week, but "Serenity" is playing on a lot fewer screens. If it builds over Sat. and Sunday and keeps a steady flow for a few weeks it should be set to clear out over $75 million in domestic and international. The budget was under $40 and they've kept advertising and print runs very low, so that's plenty. The reviews have been very positive and it should have good legs to run and run on word of mouth just like the DVD of the series did.
Warren
Member
Mal and Zoe have never given up the cause, they just stopped fighting. The Independents have a chance I think they would go for it and I don't see Mal and Zoe staying out of the fight.
It is the next logical step. They have no place to go to ground and crime was not paying well anyway. They've run and run and run, now their tormenter has a weakness it is time to turn around and hit back.
Warren
Member
I've gone full circle
I wrote the following on another message board..................
The film was so powerful it took a whole day to seep through my thick skull.
I wrote the following on another message board..................
The film was so powerful it took a whole day to seep through my thick skull.
Here2learn,
I guess, but even if you have the fight against the Alliance, there's still no getting around that fact that so much of what made the series what it was doesn't exist any longer.
The movie was a finisher IMO. I can't imagine that Whedon couldn't have done WAY better than that if he wanted to push for the series continuation or even for a sequel movie.
I guess, but even if you have the fight against the Alliance, there's still no getting around that fact that so much of what made the series what it was doesn't exist any longer.
The movie was a finisher IMO. I can't imagine that Whedon couldn't have done WAY better than that if he wanted to push for the series continuation or even for a sequel movie.
Warren
Member
He may be looking to finish the Firefly story in a few movies rather than 6-7 seasons of a TV show he did not get.
We won't know until we know.
I do hope in a deep and meaningful way that if Serenity is a big success the idiots who s-canned the show are somehow harmed by the success. I don't know how, just that they are.
We won't know until we know.
I do hope in a deep and meaningful way that if Serenity is a big success the idiots who s-canned the show are somehow harmed by the success. I don't know how, just that they are.
I just got back from the theater a couple hours ago. It was epochal. This is the first defining movie of the internet cypherpunk libertarian generation. I know I sound crazy but I'm sure it's true.
The guns: I loved the navy revolver and the leverguns.
Cobb's gatling gun or whatever was a bit fishy. I never really got a good look at it but it didn't seem to have the right parts in the right places.
That one rifle, it looked like an SVD with a M4-style carbon fiber handguard and a teflon M16 mag. It would have been OK to take the wood off, but the carbon and teflon was too much, it looked like a toy.
ETA: I agree with other posters that River was too much of at least a potential deus ex machina. But if you think about it her over-the-top fighting skills didn't really change things that much. If there is a sequel they will need to get her kidnapped or something so the action scenes don't devolve into "river, sic em!"
The guns: I loved the navy revolver and the leverguns.
Cobb's gatling gun or whatever was a bit fishy. I never really got a good look at it but it didn't seem to have the right parts in the right places.
That one rifle, it looked like an SVD with a M4-style carbon fiber handguard and a teflon M16 mag. It would have been OK to take the wood off, but the carbon and teflon was too much, it looked like a toy.
ETA: I agree with other posters that River was too much of at least a potential deus ex machina. But if you think about it her over-the-top fighting skills didn't really change things that much. If there is a sequel they will need to get her kidnapped or something so the action scenes don't devolve into "river, sic em!"
Strings
Member
I have to question the "River, sic 'em" concept. Use her as early warning, sure. But I think part of her "combat goddess" thing was the rage at Simon being shot (and making a fairly good attempt at dying). However, I COULD see MAl telling some yahoo in a bar, threatening Simon "you REALLY don't want to do that, son. It'll get messy"... 
If you haven't seen the series and you're thinking about seeing the film.
See the movie first.
Having seen the series via DVD I was rather fond of Wash. I "wish" he hadn't been killed, but what I very much dislike was the bungled way the character was handled in the movie before they killed him. For the death to have value the character has to be developed well enough for us to identify with and invest in. The film's treatment of Wash seemed flat and pushed him into the wallpaper. Did they get a bad case of movie-stupids and think that we were all Firefly fans and were already invested in Wash or were they "feeling bad" about snuffing him and just refused to put life into the character? The "move Wash" seemed flat and lifeless. The "series Wash" was lively and passionate.
And what was with that stupid He Man harness they had him wearing???
:banghead:
Picking nits from the dead horse. I think the idea of hybridizing firearms is fine as long as it makes sense. "On the rim" you might expect to have trouble getting new firearms, especially after a war, and even more so if the "rim" was the looser. So older weapons enhanced with optics and lasers is great. You get the gun you can and mount the gear you can to make it better. Fine. But the gear should make since for the type of weapon. Long range optics for long range guns. Short range optics for short range guns. I don't care if an "antique" shotty has a scope on it as long as it's a CQC scope instead of some 9x tube.
See the movie first.
Having seen the series via DVD I was rather fond of Wash. I "wish" he hadn't been killed, but what I very much dislike was the bungled way the character was handled in the movie before they killed him. For the death to have value the character has to be developed well enough for us to identify with and invest in. The film's treatment of Wash seemed flat and pushed him into the wallpaper. Did they get a bad case of movie-stupids and think that we were all Firefly fans and were already invested in Wash or were they "feeling bad" about snuffing him and just refused to put life into the character? The "move Wash" seemed flat and lifeless. The "series Wash" was lively and passionate.
And what was with that stupid He Man harness they had him wearing???
:banghead:
Picking nits from the dead horse. I think the idea of hybridizing firearms is fine as long as it makes sense. "On the rim" you might expect to have trouble getting new firearms, especially after a war, and even more so if the "rim" was the looser. So older weapons enhanced with optics and lasers is great. You get the gun you can and mount the gear you can to make it better. Fine. But the gear should make since for the type of weapon. Long range optics for long range guns. Short range optics for short range guns. I don't care if an "antique" shotty has a scope on it as long as it's a CQC scope instead of some 9x tube.
Warren
Member
That was the actor's call. He wanted something more comfortable than what he wore on the series but it still had to look like a working outfit so that is what was designed.
In photo close-ups there is a company patch on the left sleeve which is probably the spaceline he used to work for. [/fan-boy trivia]
Cosmoline
Member
I kinda liked his getup. They looked like tactical suspenders. In fact I kept thinking about how cool it would be to have tactical suspenders.
Kaylee
Member
To those interested, check out the "Visual Companion" tothe movie that just came out. It has a fairly long interview with Mr. Whedon, which has some interesting background.
What especially caught my interest was that Mr. Whedon ain't any kind of libertarian at all, in fact he particularly says that he disagrees with most everything that comes out of Mal's mouth. The fact that that man can make a show that some can call an "ideological" movie for an ideology he doesn't agree with, and do it well -- heck, I'm impressed. I couldn't write a good "Socialism is glorious" movie, I know that for certain sure.
He also mentions his own angst at having to tie up so many loose ends in one movie, but explains something to the effect of "you make a movie that leaves a lot of room for a sequel, you make it much less likely you'll get a sequel to do it in" or somesuch.
Finally.. *heh* .. the gun designs. There's some early production drawings of some of the arms. Frankly, they stink. The man seriously needs a new prop master who knows which end of the gun the bullet comes out of.
What especially caught my interest was that Mr. Whedon ain't any kind of libertarian at all, in fact he particularly says that he disagrees with most everything that comes out of Mal's mouth. The fact that that man can make a show that some can call an "ideological" movie for an ideology he doesn't agree with, and do it well -- heck, I'm impressed. I couldn't write a good "Socialism is glorious" movie, I know that for certain sure.
He also mentions his own angst at having to tie up so many loose ends in one movie, but explains something to the effect of "you make a movie that leaves a lot of room for a sequel, you make it much less likely you'll get a sequel to do it in" or somesuch.
Finally.. *heh* .. the gun designs. There's some early production drawings of some of the arms. Frankly, they stink. The man seriously needs a new prop master who knows which end of the gun the bullet comes out of.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
From a different angle maybe...
I had never heard of Firefly at all, and though I did watch a few Buffy episodes when it came out, I didn't know this movie was done by the same guy.
So, I went in totally blind to all the background info and frankly, I'm glad I did.
I enjoyed the movie very much. I think if I'd seen DVDs or had a lot of background info I would have spent too much time comparing and contrasting rather than just enjoying the flick.
Now that I've seen the movie, I might watch the Firefly series, but since it appears to have a one season lifespan not sure I'll even do that.
Overall it was a very good movie, one of the best I've seen in a long time.
I had never heard of Firefly at all, and though I did watch a few Buffy episodes when it came out, I didn't know this movie was done by the same guy.
So, I went in totally blind to all the background info and frankly, I'm glad I did.
I enjoyed the movie very much. I think if I'd seen DVDs or had a lot of background info I would have spent too much time comparing and contrasting rather than just enjoying the flick.
Now that I've seen the movie, I might watch the Firefly series, but since it appears to have a one season lifespan not sure I'll even do that.
Overall it was a very good movie, one of the best I've seen in a long time.
Flyboy
Member
Don't let the short lifespan fool you; it's neither Joss Whedon's fault nor the show's fault it was cancelled. It ran on FOX, who did their usual bang-up job. Shifting time-slots, episodes out-of-order, the works. It would have succeeded on a real network.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Here2Learn, it's interesting. I think the same has been happening to me over the last two days. The more I think about the way Wash died, the more convinced I am that it was the only thing that made the final stand in the hallway watchable. At times I genuinely believed this movie was going to be the end of everything, and nobody was getting out alive. When Zoe was getting cut and Jayne got shot, I believed they were dead. I thought some of the characters might make it out, but I believed they were dead and gone. And I realize now that many films have those heroic stands in them, but most of them are utterly unbelievable even if you want to suspend disbelief. You KNOW they're all coming out of it. When someone gets shot in the shoulder, you KNOW that at worst he'll have a sling on at the end of the movie; he might punch somebody and make a joke about how it hurts his shoulder.
After Wash was brutally, senselessly, totally annihilated, all bets were off. Anything could happen to anyone. It was a little closer to the real world. Great storytelling!
(I did finally figure out what really bothered me about that last stand, though. Why make a stand in front of the blast doors that can apparently stop the Reavers completely if it's that important that they not get through to Mal? If you don't expect to survive anyway, I mean . . . . why not close the blast doors between you and the Reavers and wait to see if they find a way through, THEN you can make your final stand if you have to do it? Well, because that's not a good story, of course, but I can't make my brain stop.)
After Wash was brutally, senselessly, totally annihilated, all bets were off. Anything could happen to anyone. It was a little closer to the real world. Great storytelling!
(I did finally figure out what really bothered me about that last stand, though. Why make a stand in front of the blast doors that can apparently stop the Reavers completely if it's that important that they not get through to Mal? If you don't expect to survive anyway, I mean . . . . why not close the blast doors between you and the Reavers and wait to see if they find a way through, THEN you can make your final stand if you have to do it? Well, because that's not a good story, of course, but I can't make my brain stop.)
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Oh, and I expect the money to be there. Imagine the DVD sales alone on this! Expect them to far outstrip the theater receipts. How many series DVD sets did they sell at almost $40 a pop? That was a big decision for me; I haven't spent that kind of money on a DVD set before or since. It's the only TV series DVD set I own.
Now they're going to sell Serenity DVDs for, what, $15-$19? They won't press enough.
Now they're going to sell Serenity DVDs for, what, $15-$19? They won't press enough.
Zundfolge
Member
Thing is Whedon has a deal to do three Firefly movies ... so he's got two more to go.
I think both Shepherd Book and Wash where killed because the actors could not commit to doing more then one movie (and judging from how little camera time each got, I'm not sure they had time to do even one movie).
I'm most disappointed in the death of Shepherd Book because his mysterious past would have been good for a lot of interesting story lines.
Strings
Member
Ummm... there's nothing to say Book's mysterious past WON'T be the subject of a further story. Maybe somebody from his past comes hunting him, and they target the crew as friends of his?
O.F.Fascist
Member
Just got back from seeing it, wow that was a great movie.
Pretty much the best movie I've seen all year.
Pretty much the best movie I've seen all year.
I fully enjoyed it, though there was a slight feeling of... 'well if you haven't seen the series' that ran through my head.
Still, a bang up shoot 'em up view of the big dark future where a handful of desperate types try to make it all right...
That isn't 'libretatrian' that's pure Hollywood, and we love it.
on Wash and Book? You can't really think ALL the actors in the film can sit back and wait on Whedon and Universal or Fox to pony up the $$ for the 'next installment' however it appears. I've heard on many discussion boards the 'magic number' for Serenity is 80 million dollars.
I liked it enough that I just MIGHT see it again this week.
But here's a gun-related bit... WHY ditch the functioning laser cannon... I mean hell, guns sell same as cows... fella might make a fair price on the open market now with all this reaver fear floatin' on high on all channels. Bigger guns mean bigger profits... right? Right?
And did anyone else note Mr. Universe's lady robot looked an awful lot like Kaylee?
Hmmmmm.
OK... gonna go watch the DVDs again.
I DID miss the song not being there at the end.
Still, a bang up shoot 'em up view of the big dark future where a handful of desperate types try to make it all right...
That isn't 'libretatrian' that's pure Hollywood, and we love it.
on Wash and Book? You can't really think ALL the actors in the film can sit back and wait on Whedon and Universal or Fox to pony up the $$ for the 'next installment' however it appears. I've heard on many discussion boards the 'magic number' for Serenity is 80 million dollars.
I liked it enough that I just MIGHT see it again this week.
But here's a gun-related bit... WHY ditch the functioning laser cannon... I mean hell, guns sell same as cows... fella might make a fair price on the open market now with all this reaver fear floatin' on high on all channels. Bigger guns mean bigger profits... right? Right?
And did anyone else note Mr. Universe's lady robot looked an awful lot like Kaylee?
Hmmmmm.
OK... gonna go watch the DVDs again.
I DID miss the song not being there at the end.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Yeah, not having The Song hurt me. I think Whedon was very consciously trying to set the film apart from the series. I checked and it's not on the soundtrack, either. I'm sure you can get MP3 versions for free on the internet in a dozen places, and since Whedon's not selling it, I might download it.
I've never understood the ditching of valuable spoils of war--in Objects in Space, they have Jubal Early's truly awesome little ship right there for the taking after they dispose of him. You'd think if nothing else Jayne would say "Gorramit, I'll fly the dang thing to the next moon!" Nope; they leave it drifting. Maybe Early activated a secret subroutine that flew the ship to a homing beacon in his suit and he's after them right now.
Hey, that's not bad!
I've never understood the ditching of valuable spoils of war--in Objects in Space, they have Jubal Early's truly awesome little ship right there for the taking after they dispose of him. You'd think if nothing else Jayne would say "Gorramit, I'll fly the dang thing to the next moon!" Nope; they leave it drifting. Maybe Early activated a secret subroutine that flew the ship to a homing beacon in his suit and he's after them right now.
Hey, that's not bad!
For those grousing about the ballad of Serenity not being in the movie, if you sit through the credits there is a guitar instrumental version at the end of the credit.
I have the ballad of Serenity in MP3 format if anyone needs it, PM me.
I have the ballad of Serenity in MP3 format if anyone needs it, PM me.
Borachon
Member
Movie was great.
I'm still not satisfied though.
When they are sitting around the campfire, Jayne picks up a guitar. In the theatre, my buddy and I held our breath...waiting for the words to come from Jayne's mouth.
Instead, they cut away to another scene.
What words did we expect from his mouth?
Simply the most ego-stroking Jaynefest song ever....and admit it, it would have been funny to hear Jayne begin singing a song about himself even if the audience had never heard it before.
"The Man they call Jayne."
He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.
Our Jayne saw the mudders' backs breakin'.
He saw the mudders'lament.
And he saw the Magistrate takin'
every dollar and leavin' five cents.
So he said "You can't do that to my people."
He said "You can't crush them under your heel."
So Jayne strapped on his hat
and in 5 seconds flat
stole everythin' Boss Higgins had to steal.
He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.
Now here is what separates heroes
from common folk like you and I.
The man they call Jayne
he turned 'round his plane
and let that money hit sky.
He dropped it onto our houses
he dropped it into our yards.
The man they called Jayne
he stole away our pain
and headed out for the stars!
Here we go!
He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne."
All Proceeds from this song go to the Mudders for a Better Tomorrow!
I'm still not satisfied though.
When they are sitting around the campfire, Jayne picks up a guitar. In the theatre, my buddy and I held our breath...waiting for the words to come from Jayne's mouth.
Instead, they cut away to another scene.
What words did we expect from his mouth?
Simply the most ego-stroking Jaynefest song ever....and admit it, it would have been funny to hear Jayne begin singing a song about himself even if the audience had never heard it before.
"The Man they call Jayne."
He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.
Our Jayne saw the mudders' backs breakin'.
He saw the mudders'lament.
And he saw the Magistrate takin'
every dollar and leavin' five cents.
So he said "You can't do that to my people."
He said "You can't crush them under your heel."
So Jayne strapped on his hat
and in 5 seconds flat
stole everythin' Boss Higgins had to steal.
He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.
Now here is what separates heroes
from common folk like you and I.
The man they call Jayne
he turned 'round his plane
and let that money hit sky.
He dropped it onto our houses
he dropped it into our yards.
The man they called Jayne
he stole away our pain
and headed out for the stars!
Here we go!
He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne."
All Proceeds from this song go to the Mudders for a Better Tomorrow!
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