Sgt. York's pistol

[Krag]

They had a show on the OLN the other night about Sgt. Alvin York. They interviewed his son who said his father always (!) carried a pistol - a 7.65mm Mauser.

Gee, I bet that busts a lot of ballons in the 1911/.45 crowd?

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I thought that he really used a 1911, but .45 ACP blanks were not available that would cycle correctly, so they used a Luger for the Gary Cooper movie.

 

[Krag]

Ready - his son was not talking about during the war. He said in civilian life (after WW1) York always carried a 7.65mm Mauser pistol. He said he even carried it when he visited New York City. Smart man!

 

[Lone Star]

Keep in mind that that would have been a M10 Mauser pocket pistol, not the big 7.63mm military model.

I imagine that the son knew what Dad carried.

Lone Star

 

[Krag]

Lone Star - that's right. He showed an example of one.

 

[Frandy]

Yes, and he writies "lovingly" in his journal of his WW I use of his gov't automatic

York and his automatic

 

[Krag]

Frandy - York's son was talking about the pistol he carried AFTER the war. How many times am I going to have to repeat this? :banghead:

 

[c_yeager]

The point is that, when given the option of CHOOSING his own pistol, Sgt York chose the dimunitive foreign cartridge when he certainly could have carried a .45

 

[BigG]

the dimunitive foreign cartridge

That was designed by the same guy who developed the 45 ACP, John Browning. Also, it was known here as the 32 ACP. Diminutive foreign cartridge, hmmph!

 

[jc2]

The 1911 is a lot of things, BUT it is not a pocket pistol. I don't think anything unusual or significant about man choosing a smaller, lighter weapon he can drop into his pocket when he goes into town (particularly if the perceived threat is small or non-existent).

 

[Frandy]

Frandy - York's son was talking about the pistol he carried AFTER the war. How many times am I going to have to repeat this?

Krag, I know that... I just wanted to repost my Alvin York post because the link takes you to his journal. That's all. I guess I should have stated that.

 

[Krag]

jc - boy, don't let the Cooperites hear you say that!

 

[Ash]

I fail to understand how that affects the 1911 crowd though. York was a superb shot who could shoot a turkey in the head. In his hands, I'm reasonably sure the .32 would have been all he would need. Compare that with the fact that at the time, 1911's were very expensive and most people used revolvers anyway. The fact he used an automatic shows how much he liked autos versus the almost infinitely more used revolvers. Imagine that, for self defense one who was quite the expert in firearms chose a single-action single stack auto over a double action revolver. That must make the anti-SA self defense guys nuts.

And, since most pocket-sized handguns were .32S&W or .38S&W, or any number of rimfire calibers, his .32ACP was not so under-powered as we might view it today. That he carried that Mauser is more an indication of his thoughts on revolvers, not the 1911.

Ash

 

[Jim Watson]

And you should remember than in the days before antibiotics, a penetrating torso hit with anything was likely a death sentence. Even a crook could know about peritonitis and would avoid being shot with anything. You might need a .45 to stop an enraged enemy but a .32 was then considered adequate crime deterrence, even an adequate police weapon viz Teddy Roosevelt and the NYPD.

 

[1911Tuner]

York

Two things to bear in mind on York's choice of carry pistols...

One is that the big Colt was a tad heavy to lug around without a good holster...and there weren't any really good concealment holsters around in those days for a gun of that size. Most civilians opted for pocket pistols
because they were easy to carry. Note the popularity of the Baby Browning
and the Colt and Savage .32 caliber pocket pistols.

Two is that...Civilian versions of the 1911 were pretty scarce and relatively expensive at the time...and it was a federal offense for a civilian to be in possession of anything marked "United States Property."

 

[Island Beretta]

no matter how we try to rationalise this.. the fact is he carried a .32 ACP instead of a .45 ACP.. it comes back to the old adage 'shot placement'.

 

[Sean Smith]

no matter how we try to rationalise this.. the fact is he carried a .32 ACP instead of a .45 ACP.. it comes back to the old adage 'shot placement'.

And fitting in his pocket.

 

[Ash]

Slice it, dice it, stick it in your pocket. Shot placement has always been the name of the game. If course, today, I would rather have a .45 over a .32 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

What is most interesting is that he picked an auto. He could have picked a .38 Special or a .38 S&W but didn't. He could have picked a double action revolver but didn't. Instead, he chose a single stack single action auto that was small enough to conceal. It wasn't even the most modern design available and certainly didn't fire the wonder cartridge of the day. He obviously didn't have a need for 9mm either.

Ash

 

[Krag]

Jim Watson - FWIW, Teddy Roosevelt always carried a .32 pistol also - an FN Mle. 1900.

When he was leading the Rough Riders he carried a .38 revolver - despite what was shown in the TV movie. It was a Colt M1889 that had been recovered from the battleship Maine and presented to him when he was the Vice Secretary of the Navy.

I saw both of them years ago when I visited his home at Sagamore Hill, Long Island, New York. I understand that since that time (I was only 16) the revolver had been stolen and never recovered.

 

[tlhelmer]

At the risk of getting flamed, it should be noted that being a hero does not make a person firearm savy. I believe York is known for his prowess with a rifle before the war.

I state this as neither an endorsement of the .45acp or an attack on the .45acp. Just an observation.

 

[Old Fuff]

Interestingly, .32 caliber handguns were particularly popular south of the Mason-Dixon line since the days of tip-up Smith & Wessons. First came the .32 R.F. followed by the .32 Colt and .32 S&W long. Of course the .32-20 had its fans. It is no suprise that Sgt. York would pick a .32 pistol, and an automatic at that. I suspect that he picked it off a German that didn't need it any more.

In civilian life he didn't need to carry a large, heavy .45, and for his purposes the Mauser .32 did everything he needed, even though it was loaded with hardball and not hollow points. Maybe there is a lesson somewhere here ...

 

[Trebor]

I saw both of them years ago when I visited his home at Sagamore Hill, Long Island, New York. I understand that since that time (I was only 16) the revolver had been stolen and never recovered.

I believe the revolver may have been recovered. I know the National Parks Service recently announced the recovery of a stolen firearm from that theft and, IIRC, it was that revolver.

 

[Sistema1927]

Alvin York probably went about his daily business with a Mauser M10 .32 in his pocket for the same reasons that I go about my life with a Kahr PM9 in my pocket:

Lightweight, easy to conceal, more prone to be on the person than to be left at home, doesn't require a special wardrobe, and never have to worry about whether or not I am "printing" or my shirt-tail has lifted, etc.

 

[Krag]

Perhaps York and TR were believers in the old adage, "The best handgun is the one you have with you!" Or as one of the instructors I work with tells our students, "You're better off with a .32 in your pocket then a .45 in your gun safe!"

Fans of full size pistols/revolvers for CCW always seem to forget one thing. Carrying a gun is a real pain in the as*. They concentrate too much on ballistics and not enough on practicality. BTW, I carry a Kahr PM9 every day.