Sheriff wants to conduct their own bankground check

[jr45]

I posted else where and I am wondering if anyone else has run across this?

Background:
Moved to this county in Jul 2013 and sent the CLEO a copy of my C&R FFL which expires this Jun. Also, my conceal permit was updated in the county around the same time.


Last week, I sent a copy of my C&R ffl renewal application (as per ATF requirements) to the sheriff's office. Today, I received a call from them and they want my DOB so they can run their own background check. The ATF will run my background for the renewal. I don't understand the "requirement" for additional process for my renewal. Granted, this is a newer sheriff (about 1yr) however; we have already run across some behavior issues with the dept.

As far as I am concerned, I have fulfilled my requirements by sending them a copy of the application as I will with my new C&R FFL. Has anyone run across this prior?

 

[MIL-DOT]

Good Lord, I'm having flashbacks of living in Mexico :banghead:. If your carry permit ( and presumably your drivers license) is throught the same county, then tell these meatballs to CHECK THIER OWN RECORDS, if they want your DOB.
Sounds like obstructionist BS to me.

 

[zxcvbob]

If you're sure this is about the C&R and not the carry permit, I'm think you can just ignore them. The copy you send to the sheriff is just a courtesy copy; it does not require his approval.

OTOH, he is the sheriff and can probably make your life miserable.

Sounds like obstructionist BS to me.

Sounds more like a mild case of incompetence or ignorance to me.

 

[jr45]

Good Lord, I'm having flashbacks of living in Mexico . If your carry permit ( and presumably your drivers license) is throught the same county, then tell these meatballs to CHECK THIER OWN RECORDS, if they want your DOB.
Sounds like obstructionist BS to me.

This is what I feel. I don't know of any "law" that states I must submit to their own background check. Heck, I have a concealed permit that was updated through the county. I feel that, unless there is a "specific" reason or requirement, then don't submit to unnecessary demands.

 

[jr45]

If you're sure this is about the C&R and not the carry permit, I'm think you can just ignore them. The copy you send to the sheriff is just a courtesy copy; it does not require his approval.

OTOH, he is the sheriff and can probably make your life miserable.

It is for my C&R renewal. As for making my life miserable, bring it on. If we continue to submit, then we will continue to see behavior like this.

 

[MErl]

The C&R requirement is a notification so you shouldn't have to provide anything and as far as I know they cannot contact the ATF and reject the app.

However, if you want to stay on their good side for NFA items or just general "don't piss off the cops without reason" you can provide it. Not something I've run across with C&R notifications, I assume the local department circular files them.

If you choose to provide it, or even if you do not, you may want to contact them that you provided a notification only of collector status. There was nothing else required of them, they are wasting money running a BG check when ATF is already going to do it.

 

[Midwest]

I posted else where and I am wondering if anyone else has run across this?

Background:
Moved to this county in Jul 2013 and sent the CLEO a copy of my C&R FFL which expires this Jun. Also, my conceal permit was updated in the county around the same time.


Last week, I sent a copy of my C&R ffl renewal application (as per ATF requirements) to the sheriff's office. Today, I received a call from them and they want my DOB so they can run their own background check. The ATF will run my background for the renewal. I don't understand the "requirement" for additional process for my renewal. Granted, this is a newer sheriff (about 1yr) however; we have already run across some behavior issues with the dept.

As far as I am concerned, I have fulfilled my requirements by sending them a copy of the application as I will with my new C&R FFL. Has anyone run across this prior?

The Sheriff is in error. Unless state law requires it, he is over stepping his authority.
.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Confused CLEO.

And I'm pretty sure the state cannot add conditions that the FEDs would have to comply with to issue a Federal license.

Mike

 

[LiENUS]

I was under the impression the purpose of notifying the CLEO is so that if he feels there is a reason to deny you that the ATF may be unaware of he would have the ability to notify them. Something like Pre-trial diversion which may not be available to the feds but the local guys do know about. When I did my initial application I sent a copy and that was it but when I ammended it due to a short move (same CLEO in both instances) I got a call and they requested more information to do a background check. I thought it odd that they did it the second time but not the first time but beyond that I cooperated.

 

[Ruger480]

My thoughts are that if you submit to this, even though unnecessary, and the next guy does too then when someone opts not to and it winds up in court the judge will look at every one else who agreed and make it a rule.

 

[tyeo098]

My thoughts are that if you submit to this, even though unnecessary, and the next guy does too then when someone opts not to and it winds up in court the judge will look at every one else who agreed and make it a rule.

Too bad that's not how our legal system works?

 

[JTHunter]

jr45 - you might wish to contact a firearms attorney and have them check out this sheriff's request. They might be able to write the sheriff a letter informing him of the pertinent laws and his limitations.

I don't know their exact name but there is a gun group in Virginia (VDCL?) that might be able to put you in touch with such a lawyer.

Good luck!

 

[goon]

Sounds like lack of experience. Personally, even though I am not a fan of intrusive government, I'd cut the new Sheriff just a little slack in this case and give him your DOB. You may also want to include some documentation explaining what a C&R license is, what your requirements are, and what his requirements are. Could be that he just hasn't encountered this before.

Your call though.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I am not sure how things work where you live but I have found that most of the paperwork is handled by someone other than the sheriff. This may be the case or it may not but it is a good chance that it is. I would dig a little deeper and make a few calls before I considered it anything other than someone who works for the sheriff being the culprit. Won't be the first time something similar or similar in nature has occurred. I have found that people often don't have a clue as to what is going on or the initiative to find out.

I have been through things like it before with different entities and the sheriff's office is no exception to the rule One example of a lovely experience I had (one of many and I hope you encounter smarter people than I did) was with the school I had my daughter registered in at the time. I had custody of her and submitted the papers (upon their request) when I registered her. One day I get a note from the principal that they needed proof of custody. First of all they needed no such thing here being my daughter ( crazy right?)but I happily obliged and gave her teacher a copy to turn in.

A few days later I get another note for the same request stating as well that they had to get their records up to date. Puzzled I asked the teacher and sure enough she turned it in. So I go over to the secretary and show her the paper and fill her in as to my compliance. She states to me "sir I need an updated one that one is not more than a year old". I went on with explaining to her that It was a full custody paper over and done. She said well it needs updating and that if I didn't do so my daughter could no longer be registered in the school system. Getting aggravated with her ignorance I agreed to have DJFS get me something for them. :

Unfortunately the drama would not be so easily settled. After a call to DJFS and waiting on the phone for an hour I finally present my request only to be denied, and somewhat understandably. It was explained to me that a judges ruling stands and only the ruling by another judge as to a custody change would give a new date on custody papers (just as I suspected). So I explain that I understand that but that I cannot convince the secretary as she just don't understand and asked for a letter or something from them confirming I still have custody. Simply explained to me was go back and tell her (school secretary) what I told you and if she can't understand she is free to call us and we will explain it to her. Drama continues.

So more aggravated than ever about the debacle I go back and explain it again and she still says she has to have it. So I request to speak to the principal so we can resolve it. I explain to situation and her response is the that I need to give the secretary a custody paper with a more up to date, date on it. Crazy! Even explaining to her the law and DJFS response I could not get a budge out of her. I wish it ended there but it took me three month's and four meetings with members of the school board before they finally made phone call to the school to explain to them the same thing that I had been saying all along. :banghead:

I could never find the time to give all of my experiences with personnel, staff or CS throughout the years but they will make you jump through hoops if they don't know, don't care (or both) about what they are doing. But I have shared a few lovely ones when this state was OC only. It very well had been better to have denied us all gun carry rights outside the home and saved us the trouble...

 

[MtnCreek]

Odds are he doesn't really know what he's supposed to do. He's probably signed off on NFA items and thinks this is similar. Just my guess.

 

[Midwest]

Once you sent him a copy of the renewal application, you have met your obligation according to Federal Law. Case closed. (Unless there is some sort of state regulation that requires the sheriff to do a background check). You are not seeking his 'permission' or need permission, you are just legally informing him according to law.

You can send it regular mail, or if you wish send it certified/delivery receipt or drop it off in person.

The only issues I ever heard regarding C&R licenses are New Jersey (NJ is the only state in the nation that 'heavily discourages' (to put it mildly) anyone getting a C&R. Applicants were basically told that the license is no good in NJ.

And Nassau and Suffolk counties in New York State where the ATF has actually interviewed the applicant before approving the license. I have not heard of anyone in New York City having this license.

Seeing that Virginia is a so called 'free state' there should be no issues. The Sheriff (or his/her office) are over stepping their authority. Once you meet your obligation of informing the Sheriff, the matter is over as far you are concerned legally.

.

 

[tyeo098]

Yeah OP- didn't see you were from VA, contact VCDL (Ed Levine is highly regarded in my area up north) they'll set the sherrif straight. Join VCDL if you haven't already

Keep us posted!

 

[gym]

I would just give it to him, and see what happens, he may just not know the procedures, along with a note informing them of the requirements.

 

[jr45]

I contacted VCDL and waiting on a response.

 

[jr45]

I have not heard back from VCDL so I called the sheriff’s dept Criminal Investigative Division (CID) which wanted the background. Bottom line, it is a “request” and not required.

I spoke with the administrative assistant who requested the information via phone message. Overall, the conversation was very polite. Early in the conversation, the tone was definitely leaning to “you must” provide the information until I asked what county or state law required it. I was informed there was none. I was informed that sheriff wants a background check on all FFL holders in the county. I asked why, and was given a spew about how they are trying to automate and consolidate records. I then asked is this “request” something new, I was told no, and that the sheriff dept usually matches the FFL holder to the concealed weapons permit holders (vast majority of FFL holder also have CCW) which results is no need for an additional background request.

I explained that I did also have a CCW however; they had some initial difficulty finding mine but it should not be a problem to do the comparison.
I am upset to find out this was not a requirement but an additional “request” from the sheriff and they would be “asking” everyone who has an FFL to submit to a background check if the dept can’t find their CCW.

I should not have called as now it will now bother me that such is happening in my county…oh well, better to know what is happening than to just say OK.

 

[GC51]

This brings back memories...several years ago, when Oregon had a 15 day waiting period on hand-guns, I bought a Glock from a small dealer in Vale, Or. After 15 days I went (with much anticipation) to pick up my gun. I was informed that they had screwed up the finger-prints and I now had to wait another 15 days. Again, I had to submit new finger-prints. Finally, after 30 days of waiting, I picked up my gun. The gun came in a black plastic box which I put on the back seat of my vehicle. My wife stopped for gas and I was reading the paper-work for the gun while we got gas. We went home and 20 minutes later, two Vale city cops showed up, claiming I was brandishing a weapon at the gas station. My wife told them she would get me from the back and pushed the door shut and came back and told me the cops were there. I found them in my living room and they made me show them my paper-work, alluding that anyone who could afford a $500 weapon must be dealing drugs or something. They finally left after lecturing me about playing with guns at the gas station. The gun was never visible, I had stopped at this station many times with my AK in the back on our way out to go shooting and had never had a problem. Turns out, the city of Vale requires a copy of the BATF form as well. I complained to the County Sheriff who issued me a concealed carry permit and apologized for the incompetence of the Vale city police dept. As soon as I picked the gun up, the store manager contacted the police and let them know I had gotten my gun. No one at the gas station said anything to anyone, this was just another gestapo tactic by little-minded people who had to get a badge to feel like men. You are probably dealing with a similar scenario...

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

This whole thing is very disturbing!

 

[MDW GUNS]

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Forms/Firearms/atf-f-5310-16.pdf

On Q9 it asked for the DOB!
I would friendly tell them that the Form 5310 holds all the answers!

 

[JTHunter]

Good one MDW!

Makes you wonder if the people in that office even bother to read the paperwork under their noses!

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I should not have called as now it will now bother me that such is happening in my county…oh well, better to know what is happening than to just say OK.

I agree. So now you know. I wish it had been an error easily corrected. Might have walked away feeling better about it. But you still had to find the truth bitter as it was you did the right thing IMO.

On a good note it is in your county and you can fight to change it if you have the right support!