Sheriff's copter shot down - Albuquerque
- Thread starter Erich
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Stickjockey
Member
Tracers?
What're the odds this was done by someone associated with the robbery the 'copter was investigating?
Kjervin
Member
How does this become an FBI thing? Was it related to a bank robbery? or is it kinda like a Federal deal because it was a helicopter?
Just curious,
Kj
Just curious,
Kj
Mike Hull
Member
"White said metal fragments in the cockpit coupled with a bullet hole in the bottom of the windshield corroborated the statement of pilot Holland that he felt that he had been shot."
How could that bring down a chopper?
Sounds like maybe someone panicked and crashed.
How could that bring down a chopper?
Sounds like maybe someone panicked and crashed.
DonP
Member
Already being used by Sarah's folks
I just saw a posting at the MMM board site about the chopper being "shot down" in a thread about banning the .50 cal. because "it can be used by terrorists to shoot down planes".
One bozo immediately posted this as if it was proof of that claim. Watch for more uninformed blathering to follow shortly. Never mind that there is no information about the weapon used. Far be it from the MMM to let mere facts stand in the way of an emotionally appealing crime.
They are getting desperate. I guess there hasn't been nearly enough innocent blood for them to roll around in lately so they have to take what they can get for publicity purposes.
FWIW the MMM national board is such a hoot to visit. They can go for weeks with no new postings. That's always a sign of a busy interesting, high profile, issue driven organization, ain't it?
Besides my occasional postings, there seems to be only three other people, on a national basis, and my suspicion is that at least two, if not all, are MMM/VPC employees/ringers based on having Washington DC as their "home" and their quick use of VPC phony statistics at hand.
"My" Chicago chapters have never had a single meeting in well over a year. They have to be getting money from McKelvey, Soros or other deep pockets on the left to even keep the lights on at this point.
I just saw a posting at the MMM board site about the chopper being "shot down" in a thread about banning the .50 cal. because "it can be used by terrorists to shoot down planes".
One bozo immediately posted this as if it was proof of that claim. Watch for more uninformed blathering to follow shortly. Never mind that there is no information about the weapon used. Far be it from the MMM to let mere facts stand in the way of an emotionally appealing crime.
They are getting desperate. I guess there hasn't been nearly enough innocent blood for them to roll around in lately so they have to take what they can get for publicity purposes.
FWIW the MMM national board is such a hoot to visit. They can go for weeks with no new postings. That's always a sign of a busy interesting, high profile, issue driven organization, ain't it?
Besides my occasional postings, there seems to be only three other people, on a national basis, and my suspicion is that at least two, if not all, are MMM/VPC employees/ringers based on having Washington DC as their "home" and their quick use of VPC phony statistics at hand.
"My" Chicago chapters have never had a single meeting in well over a year. They have to be getting money from McKelvey, Soros or other deep pockets on the left to even keep the lights on at this point.
countertop
Member
DonP
What the address of that Board.
As mych as I like THR, wouldn't it be great if we could move even 10% of our discussions over there
What the address of that Board.
As mych as I like THR, wouldn't it be great if we could move even 10% of our discussions over there
Rabid Rabbit
Member
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2004
- Messages
- 464
MMM is tight on access
Don P,
How did you pass the smell test to get access to their boards? I thought you had to have a chapter approve you first? My wife and I discussed her going to a couple chapter meetings to get access but she'd never be able to keep quiet about how stupid they are and would probably get arrested.
Don P,
How did you pass the smell test to get access to their boards? I thought you had to have a chapter approve you first? My wife and I discussed her going to a couple chapter meetings to get access but she'd never be able to keep quiet about how stupid they are and would probably get arrested.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/10/copter.shootdown/index.html
The CNN article alleges that the bullet shattered on a "pedal used to fly the aircraft," thus implying that the control was damaged. The article further states that the pilot and passenger were wounded by "shrapnel."
In bull sessions where the subject came up, I've always maintained that the pilot is the biggest vital target on a helicopter.
Is this the first time this has occurred? Frankly, I've been expecting it for many years.
Any indication of connections with the robbery the bird was investigating?
The CNN article alleges that the bullet shattered on a "pedal used to fly the aircraft," thus implying that the control was damaged. The article further states that the pilot and passenger were wounded by "shrapnel."
In bull sessions where the subject came up, I've always maintained that the pilot is the biggest vital target on a helicopter.
Is this the first time this has occurred? Frankly, I've been expecting it for many years.
Any indication of connections with the robbery the bird was investigating?
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Civilian helicopters are pretty fragile, it doesn't take a lot to bring them down.
Didn’t the Afghani mujahadeen bring down Russian helicopters with a bow and arrow? Fishing line tied to the arrow, rope tied to the fishing line, chain tied to the rope, with a big heavy chunk of metal or concrete attached to the chain. Aim for the rotor, which pulls up the fishing line, rope, chain and eventually the metal or concrete which flys around, smashes the helicopter and brings it down.
armoredman
Member
Never heard that, but sounds like it might work, though the bird would have to be very close, and almost stationary.
DonP
Member
Older Hueys could be fragile too
"Civilian helicopters are pretty fragile, it doesn't take a lot to bring them down."
Military too.
The new Blackhawks and Apache's are armored up, to a degree, but our older stuff was "push a pencil through it" thin skinned.
There was a classic old cartoon in "Stars and Stripes" when I was in the Cav called "Nugyen Charlie", IIRC, that showed a sergeant holding a Vietnamese by his shirt and the Vietnamese guy was saying ...
"No, it was not I that threw the rock that brought down your great green bird"
"Civilian helicopters are pretty fragile, it doesn't take a lot to bring them down."
Military too.
The new Blackhawks and Apache's are armored up, to a degree, but our older stuff was "push a pencil through it" thin skinned.
There was a classic old cartoon in "Stars and Stripes" when I was in the Cav called "Nugyen Charlie", IIRC, that showed a sergeant holding a Vietnamese by his shirt and the Vietnamese guy was saying ...
"No, it was not I that threw the rock that brought down your great green bird"
I recall hearing about another incident where someone brought down a police helicopter with a rifle:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25737&highlight=helicopter
I've seen more in-depth stories about the incident, but I can't find them at the moment...
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25737&highlight=helicopter
I've seen more in-depth stories about the incident, but I can't find them at the moment...
griz
Member
Not much info to go on yet, but I agree that a machine with that many parts flying in that many directions, shouldn't be too tough to cripple.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Where's it say so in the Constitution?
It's really a function of the density and location of the zillions of moving parts. A small chopper is going to have the vast majority of its machinery packed into a relatively small space. That's why a random VC with a rusty SKS could pop a couple of rounds in the general direction of a Huey, get a good hit, and damage or disable something important. Although I suspect that the vast majority of those particular shots hit something relatively unimportant or just flew off into the wild blue yonder.
A jetliner is something vastly different. There are a whole bunch more moving parts, and it's a whole bunch bigger, but the distribution of important stuff is much wider, and a 747 can make a safe, albeit very exciting, emergency landing with a missing engine. There's a whole bunch of redundancy in a commercial jetliner, especially in the areas that would be easy to attack (multiple engines, multiple fuel tanks, various redundancies in control systems).
The pilot is, however, a big concern. Most crashes and infractions are pilot error, and a dead or incapacitated pilot is a much bigger concern than a bad pilot. If, and this is a BIG if, these "bring down a jetliner" idiots were actually concerned with planes falling out of the sky and not just wanting to disarm the peasants, they would be pushing for the simpler fix of armoring the cockpit against projectile threats. Armored glass and body panels are easy to come by, and there's a whole air force full of people who know how to do it. I'm not bidding on the contract, but compare the two options and you'll see which one is simpler, cheaper, easier, and just plain smart.
Eightball
Member
Crazy stuff. I wonder what calibre was used? Let's just hope it isn't .50BMG, or some common rifle ammo--we don't need more things to have lobbys to get them banned. I can already hear the cries of "ban [fill-in-the-blank] because it poses a hazard to some people, somewhere!!!". So does tripping on a bar of soap in the shower--maybe if we point out the similarly flawed logic, the Bradys will start cries of "ban soap!!!" Chipperman
Member
The caliber won't matter.
If it WAS a .50 they'll use that as proof for the ban.
If it WASN'T, they'll say that if "even a .30-06 can bring down a chopper, then they have no chance against the Eeeeevil .50."
If it WAS a .50 they'll use that as proof for the ban.
If it WASN'T, they'll say that if "even a .30-06 can bring down a chopper, then they have no chance against the Eeeeevil .50."
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