Sheriff's deputy has ND in the locker room of my gym!

[rockstar.esq]

Our hearts go out to folks who make a mistake that leads to death or injury. Not intending to do harm doesn't alleviate liability, nor does ignorance. I agree that the officer who allegedly had the ND should be treated exactly as any other citizen would be. If the DA won't file a case for a no injury ND for the cop, then the DA shouldn't file a case on anyone else for their no injury ND. I can say that I was standing by when a police officer in Larimer county wrote a ticket for "Discharging a firearm within city limits" to an idiot in my neighborhood shooting squirrels with his BB gun! Granted the poaching was an ND but I seriously doubt the situation would have gone so easily for the idiot had it been a handgun.

 

[Hillsideblue]

I won't write a letter................You may find that the Sheriff doesn't sign you next CCW license.................Leave it alone............
Accidents happen.............that's all there is to say...........

 

[jlbraun]

@HillsideBlue

It was not an accident. It was negligence.

Here is my letter.

Sheriff Alderden,

I read with some dismay the news reports of Lt. Robert Cook having a negligent discharge of his weapon in the locker room of the Miramont health club on 26 February.

I recognize that negligent discharges can and do happen, and there is no need for overreaction on the part of the Larimer County Sheriff's Department or the DA's office.

I also recognize that I am not privy to the internal operations of the Sheriff's Department, so I do not know what actions may have been taken internally. Therefore, my suggestions below are made from ignorance of these internal actions, so I apologize in advance.

1. The lockers at Miramont (I am a member) are not sufficient to secure a personal sidearm. They can be opened with a screwdriver or a swift kick.
2. It might be useful to know that there exists a holster that will carry a compact .45 under gym shorts while working out - it's called a SmartCarry and more information can be found at www.smartcarry.com.
3. I am thankful that no one was hurt, but am aware that a 14 year old girl was nearly hit with the errant round. I hope that this is emphasized in future firearms training in your department.
4. While I do not think there is a need to suspend Lt. Cook out of hand for this, I do hope that you and he have time to sit down and talk about what corrective actions he has implemented so that he is not negligent in the future.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Brian Dale]

Fair enough.

 

[g5reality]

Rather than send the letter to the police you should send a letter to the gym. Just ask them to post a NO FIRE ARMS sign on the doors. this chould take care of any future issues while still preserving your ability to get your CCW reissued. Why Jeopardize your ability to carry. Just nip it in the bud. If he or anyone else carries into the gym in the future they could get into trouble legally or lose their gym membership.

 

[jlbraun]

@g5reality

If he or anyone else carries into the gym in the future they could get into trouble legally or lose their gym membership.

Um, dude...

I carry at the gym (occasionally, when I'm coming back or going to somewhere where I would otherwise carry. If I'm just going there and back, I just have a folding knife). Why would I ask the gym to put up a "NO FIREARMS" sign?:banghead:

Or were you being sarcastic? If so I apologize.

 

[buzz_knox]

Rather than send the letter to the police you should send a letter to the gym. Just ask them to post a NO FIRE ARMS sign on the doors. this chould take care of any future issues while still preserving your ability to get your CCW reissued. Why Jeopardize your ability to carry. Just nip it in the bud. If he or anyone else carries into the gym in the future they could get into trouble legally or lose their gym membership.

So, the answer to the negligent conduct of one person is to strip everyone of their rights?

 

[g5reality]

What are you so afraid of? some guy in his brief's? NO guns are EVER necessary at the gym.

So, the answer to the negligent conduct of one person is to strip everyone of their rights?

I bet when they ask their insurance agent that is what he reccommends. And when you're on PRIVATE PROPERTY. You have only the rights the property owner gives you. Don't like it find another gym. Better Yet Buy some dumbbells and a bar, and make a home gym.

Why would I ask the gym to put up a "NO FIREARMS" sign?

You're the one making a sting about it. otherwise leave it to teh mistake it was and move on. Don't make a mountain out orf amole hill.

 

[jlbraun]

NO guns are EVER necessary at the gym.

I'm glad that I don't have to prove "need" to you or anyone else, then.

And of course, no one ever gets shot in the gym!

Better Yet Buy some dumbbells and a bar, and make a home gym.

A home gym would not have nearly the... view... that I get when I work out at the public one.

I bet when they ask their insurance agent that is what he reccommends.

And when that "NO FIREARMS" sign goes up, that's the day I quit that gym and find another one.

 

[buzz_knox]

I bet when they ask their insurance agent that is what he reccommends. And when you're on PRIVATE PROPERTY. You have only the rights the property owner gives you. Don't like it find another gym.

Yes, and everyone who is a member apparently still retains the right to possess firearms currently since the property owner has not stated its wishes on the subject. But if we take the anti position (strip everyone of their rights because one screwed up), those members will be deprived of said right.

 

[g5reality]

jlbraun,

Your Choice.

 

[g5reality]

buzz_knox,

But if we take the anti position (strip everyone of their rights because one screwed up), those members will be deprived of said right.

That's why I suggested not making a mountain out of a mole hill. It was clearly a mistake. Let it go. I wouldn't write a letter to the police or say anything to the gym. I'd let it go as the mistake it aparently was.

My suggestion to post the NO HANDGUNS sign was refering to the gym's liability and their insurance carrier. They have teh obligation to keep all of their patrons safe not just the ones toting guns.

 

[jlbraun]

How, exactly, does posting a "NO HANDGUNS" sign keep their patrons safe? And since when are they obligated to provide for the safety of their patrons? How about some personal responsibility?

Or is it just security theater designed to make them "feel" safe? What good does a mere sign do?

 

[g5reality]

jlbraun,

Let's not go around in circles. YOU are the one with the issues. Let it go and move on.

 

[jlbraun]

Just ask them to post a NO FIRE ARMS sign on the doors. this chould take care of any future issues...

NO guns are EVER necessary at the gym.

You have only the rights the property owner gives you.

If he or anyone else carries into the gym in the future they could get into trouble legally

Sir, I don't think I'm the one with issues. Goodbye.

(edit: Ah, the ignore list. Keeps the blood pressure down.)

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Le sigh...if only we peons possessed the infallible firearms skills with which professional law-enforcement is endowed.

Haha, thats good.

jlbraun and G5reality...I thought this was the high road, where everyone likes eachother....right?

 

[Geno]

Bullet Resistent Gymbags...They Do Exist.

There is a company that sells bullet-resistent gym bags. They also sell simple wall-mountable shields that are portable. The person points the pistol into the shield or bag as he or she loads/unloads the firearm. Sounds like a good investment for the department's personnel.

I'm glad to read that all worked out, no one killed or injured.

Check this website for the "Safe Direction" ballistic containment system:

http://safedirection.com/

Edit to add, this too is a reason that I purchased a bullet resistent vest for my home. On 99.9% of days, it merely hangs on the wall near my vault in my safe room. However, on any day that I have either to load or unload my firearms, the muzzle is directed squarely into the center of that hanging vest. Bewteen the vest's two panels of Kevlar (front & rear), the internal cuncussion plate, and the vault, anyone in my home is secure from mishaps. Better safe than sorry.

Doc2005

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Robert seems to be out . . .

Since Hairless is not available at this time, I guess it's up to me (sorry, Robert) . . .

I see a dangerous trend here. Guns are sneaking into gyms everywhere, along with other dangerous weaponry.

Statistics clearly show that you're 38.6 % more likely to be shot in a gym if you're 14 and sit in a cubicle.

All metallic objects of any sort need to be banned in gyms.

Metal detectors need to be set up and manned by TSA representatives. A team of highly qualified and specially trained agents must be on hand to pat down the club members -- especially the female members -- so that they don't sneak anything in.

Gym marshals need to be appointed for protective duty to keep Americans safe as they go about their daily lives.

A campaign to create weapons free zones around places where people congregate needs to be organized at once.

Guns are dangerous, except in the hands of professionals. We owe this fine officer a debt of gratitude for showing us how dangerous the gym environment has become and the urgent need to increase our safety efforts in these places.

The mayor will be forming a coalition of concerned administrators to review the urgent steps to be taken. A gym safety tax will be proposed for the next session, to be assessed on homeowners within the city and possibly the county.

Your safety is important to us: we will do everything possible to guarantee that all appropriate efforts are made to try to do a better job, within acceptable parameters, of keeping an eye on our citizens for their own security.

Thank you for your attention.​

 

[jerkface11]

How about ask the gym to put up a "NO COPS ALLOWED" sign on the front door. This would strike me as being better than a no guns sign. After all it was a cop not a gun who nearly shot the little girl.

 

[jerkface11]

g5reality buzz_knox,

Quote:
But if we take the anti position (strip everyone of their rights because one screwed up), those members will be deprived of said right.

That's why I suggested not making a mountain out of a mole hill. It was clearly a mistake. Let it go. I wouldn't write a letter to the police or say anything to the gym. I'd let it go as the mistake it aparently was.

My suggestion to post the NO HANDGUNS sign was refering to the gym's liability and their insurance carrier. They have teh obligation to keep all of their patrons safe not just the ones toting guns.

g5reality so you equate gunfree with safe?

 

[davhina]

Arfin,
You are right, but we need to extend the TSA to all public places, grocery stores, the video store, dairy queen, etc (except the malls, cuz we have the ninja's)
Sorry, could'nt resist, but you missed a few And I'm sure i missed so many more.
Dave

 

[The-Fly]

For the record, signs have zero legal weight in Colorado. Even if the gym put up one, cops and ccw'ers could ignore it.

 

[g5reality]

jerkface11,

g5reality so you equate gunfree with safe?

NO that's not what I said. I even put my comments in context to the insurance liability issue.

My comments are two:

1) I personally see no need for guns in gyms. If the're not there then they can't go off. When would you EVER need a gun in a gym? I wear a jock strap, shorts & a t-shirt at the gym, where's the threat?

2)The Accidental Discharge was just that accidental. By letting it go it won't go anywhere. By inflaming the situation writing letters and making a stink about it poses no positive outcome.

 

[jerkface11]

g5reality you said that by banning guns on the premises the gym would be protected it's customers. So yes you did say that no guns = safe. In your opinion where does one "need" a gun? And do you really think that a cop would obey a sign saying "no guns allowed"? He couldn't even follow the 4 rules. You should also quit calling it an accident. The gun didn't go off by itself he pulled the trigger.

 

[Brian D.]

Earlier it was stated that a locker isn't very secure, they get broken into at gyms and health clubs fairly often. (Of course, actually LOCKing the LOCKer would be a great help.) So, where would one secure a CCW firearm then, his/her vehicle? Uh, those get broken into as well, pretty much everyday if my local daily birdcage liner has any credibility at all.

A small point perhaps, but I've seen this general topic addressed many times on firearms forums, and invariably someone says that lockers aren't safe enough, but somehow, by comparison, a vehicle is. It makes me look like this little fella whenever I read such a rationale.