SHFT guns and keeping it real

[JWarren]

A good concealable handgun is a must during a SHTF. It will be what you have with you 24/7.

You can't do that with your long gun.

I've posted my experiences with Katrina a number or times. In short, I found that I had my Glock 19 with me far more than I had my AK.

At the same time....


I WAS GLAD that I had that AK. And it was the only one I had that got fired during the 8 weeks of aftermath to prevent thefts.


The answer is BOTH. Don't spend your entire budget on a tricked-out race handgun. Dont' blow it all on a loaded M-forgery. If money is tight, budget in a way that you can get mid-range of both a rifle (or shotgun) AND a handgun.

BUT....


DO NOT forget ammunition. In the aftermath of Katrina, the first thing that the authorities did was ban the sell of firearms and ammunition for the few stores that DID get open again. This ban spread for hours of driving in any direction.

If you don't already have all the ammunition you need in a Katrina-like situtution, when it hits you are already too late.


-- John

 

[ieszu]

I guess it depends on what you mean by SHTF... natural disaster (fire/earthquake/flood) the OP is probably 100% correct.

However, some SHTF planners are going for the end of system of government they can live with.... Where they might have to take out gangs/LE and the like....

Different strokes for different folks

 

[JWarren]

I guess it depends on what you mean by SHTF... natural disaster (fire/earthquake/flood) the OP is probably 100% correct.

True. I personally plan for hordes of the living dead coming for my brains. But that is the product of decades of brain-washing by terribly written and casted B-movies that I am so fond of.

I figure that if I am ready for THAT, I can handle the rest.


But let's be real. I really think in terms of natural disasters along the lines of Katrina. Why? Because that happens to be the one that I actually lived through. I figure that if I already lived through it, no one can ever tell me that it isn't going to happen.

And because of the geographical region where I live, it isn't an un-realistic scenerio that it will happen again. After all, before there was Katrina, there was Camille. There was also Andrew. And there was Hugo, and the list goes on.

So, I tend to make my planning towards natural disaster planning based upon the needs of my area. I haven't created a Volcanic Eruption SHTF plan for obvious reasons. I may feel differently if I lived elsewhere.


At the same time, I do a LOT of planning for when S-Doesn't-HTF. After all, something is horribly wrong if your retirement plan would be better off if civilization as we know it ends.


-- John

 

[buzz_knox]

I guess it depends on what you mean by SHTF... natural disaster (fire/earthquake/flood) the OP is probably 100% correct.

However, some SHTF planners are going for the end of system of government they can live with.... Where they might have to take out gangs/LE and the like....

Different strokes for different folks

And that's ultimately the point. Unfortunately, the different folks often ignore the scenarios that don't meet their mindset.

Those with the tactical wheelbarrows ready to fight the hordes of gangs ignore the natural disasters that can easily arise anywhere, anytime and call for more food than ammo, and faster transportation than a tank.

Those that are concerned with natural disasters often ignore the reality in some situations, the gov't has abandoned citizens, who then literally had to take up arms to defend themselves and their property.

The best solution is to plan for the likely contingencies in your area and leave enough flexibility to handle the unlikely without ridiculing or ignoring those that you "think" can't happen.

 

[Megistopoda]

Then sight your BMG in at 20 yards....

 

[Kindrox]

No matter what the situation, people need the basics covered. Do you have a small, easily concealed pistol for every adult in the house? I am talking small of your back/ankle/pocket sized. Do you have a larger side arm for every adult in the house? Do you have a carbine/compact shotgun for every adult in the house?

Have these and our history of shfts say this is all you need. Now if you want to go the extra mile and get that big rifle “just in case” or just because, great. But if you are buying long range rifles for shft, do you have the basics covered first?

 

[ieszu]

I know I have a concealable handgun for each person in my house.... easy because it is just me and my wife. I also have 2 semi-auto rifle's in 7.63x39 as well as 2 in .223... not because I believe in overkill, but you just happen to collect these things if you like to fiddle and tinker with them in your free time

And then, I have my long range sniper rifle... .338 Lapua which can be used for clocktower shooting and the like, and ammo for all guns I might use because I go to the range a lot and always keep a supply on hand (I buy it by the case).

I figure no matter what, I am covered in SHTF situations. Oh, and I have an 870 as well, but only one as my wife doesn't enjoy shooting it as much as the others.....

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

Kindrox has it right, a conceable handgun is gonna be real valuable IMO no matter the caliber. and companion carbine using same ammo is bonus. or smaller sized shotgun. Rambo/Road Warrior and John Wayne are movie figures, find some like minded folk/family and plan to get together at early warning signs of impending SHTF. any vehicle on the road is going to be a target for rogues of some sort

 

[DMK]

I think the reason you don't see weapons in the media concerning disasters is the same as why you don't see stories about the millions of cases that guns are used to deter crime every year. The media will never accept, nor condone that personal weapons are a solution to any problem.

I keep plenty of ammo for all my guns. I have good concealable holsters for all my primary handguns. I have a number of compact rifles with folding stocks (M1 Carbine, AK, FAL) that can be discreetly stashed in a pack, suitcase or vehicle.

That all said, this is where your disaster plans need to start and then you can adjust from there. No planning and preparedness is ever complete.

American Red Cross materials dealing with terrorism and unexpected events

Disaster Services Publications: Community Disaster Education Materials Listed by Hazard

 

[PaladinX13]

Think about this....you WANT a gun and caliber that YOUR local LEO uses. If the SHTF and you find yourself on their side, THEY WILL HAVE THE AMMO AND MAGS.

I don't know about that. I can imagine what you're saying, but I could also imagine the police confiscating your stuff for their purposes in the name of a police emergency.

 

[DesertDawg]

Three firearms: A good 12-gauge pump shotgun, a reliable center-fire handgun and a good .22 caliber rifle.

12-gauge pump shotgun: Excellent versatility, and with slug rounds, fairly accurate out to 100+ yards. Easy to maintain.

Center-fire handgun (pistol or revolver, your choice, as well as the caliber): Concealability, easiest to deploy in close quarters. Revolvers are slightly easier to maintain and don't need magazines.

.22 caliber rifle: Easy to shoot, accurate within a reasonable distance, fairly easy to maintain. Ammo is still fairly inexpensive. Good for dropping small game animals. Just about "everyone" has a .22 rifle of some sort, so ammo will still be available....one way or another. You can carry "scads" of .22 rounds without being physically burdened.

Now, if I were to be on a hilltop or in the middle of a lake when the "SHTF", I'd want to add a center-fire, semi-automatic rifle to my list. Keep the hordes of thugs at the base of the hill, or on the shore.

 

[JWarren]

Quote:
Think about this....you WANT a gun and caliber that YOUR local LEO uses. If the SHTF and you find yourself on their side, THEY WILL HAVE THE AMMO AND MAGS.

I don't know about that. I can imagine what you're saying, but I could also imagine the police confiscating your stuff for their purposes in the name of a police emergency.

PaladinX13 is right.

During Katrina, St. Tammany parish and Washington Parish announced an executive order that they were allowing emergency personnel and LEOs to confiscate fuel for their uses. I heard the announcement on 870 AM as I was driving through St. Tammany parish with 250 gallons of gasoline on the back of a trailer.

Do you REALLY think your ammunition, firearms, and other supplies are immune to being taken for "official use?" And if they have extra magazines and ammunition, do you REALLY THINK they will be handing them out to the general population????

Katrina showed that they were making an effort to confiscate guns, not hand them out.



Seriously guys... think about what you are saying.



-- John

 

[romma]

Well if you are looking for portability, Keltec PLR-16 comes to mind.

I am of the belief that a disaster is a disaster is a disaster...

It may be short term. Or it may start out as a seemingly short term disater but if social order breaks down, all bets are off...

The 92 riots that went on for days are an excellent example of something that started our as an event that typically would or at least might be quelled in a few hours... Look what actually happened though.

I have an AR for SHTF if I stay home. And handguns for the road but I won't rule out the AR if the Stuff gets real deep...

 

[EdLaver]

where i live, a shtf scenario would involve wooded areas, i live on the outskirts of a city. So for me, my XD45, XD subcompact 9mm as back up, and either my DPMS LR-308 18" or my FN SPR bolt rifle.

 

[Brian Williams]

Light and fast, fairly concealable for me is a Marlin 1894C in 357 with a few revolvers to back it up.

 

[PAPACHUCK]

To satisfy "real" SHTF needs, I believe one could get away with having a three-gun approach. A SD handgun (9mm up in semi or .38 up in a revolver), a pump shotty(12, 16, or 20ga), and a mid range rifle (.223/7.62x39,etc.). Anything over that is a plus, but not to the point where other real needs(food, water,shelter) aren't met.

I personally love buying guns and ammo. I have a great selection to work with. Bugging in, I'm covered. Bugging out, I'd have to take a serious look at what the situation is at that time, and bring what would be most appropriate for the senario.

When Katrina came ashore, the eastern edge of her eyewall passed directly over my house. Wind damage was extensive and the Gulf of Mexico took up residence in my house for about 28 hrs. The next few months tested my preps, and gave me a real understanding of what is really needed. The most important things to prep for are water, shelter, and food. And, in that order. Next most important is to provide for your security. Guns and ammo are but tools, situational awareness is the key to survival in a SHTF senario. I never had to use my guns during the aftermath of Katrina, but I am certain the presence of a gun on my side at all times kept the riff-raff at bay.

My suggestion for a starter armory would be:

A 4" .357 or 9mm semi with 500rds ammo,
A 12ga. pump shotgun with 200rds buckshot&100rds birdshot,
A carbine, AR/AK/SKS, with 500rds ammo.

Next:
Add a scoped bolt-action 270/308/.30-06 with 200rds ammo,
and a scoped .22 semi-auto rifle (10/22, Marlin60, etc.) with 500rds ammo.

just my .02.

 

[Dirty Bob]

I think you're more likely to need food, clean water, prescription meds, and medical and hygiene supplies than a sniper rifle!

If you already have a CCW, then I'd suggest some good canned and freeze-dried or dried food, a water filter and bottled water, at least a month (better 3) of your prescriptions, soap, lights and batteries, and first aid supplies, before buying another gun.

I plan -- if at all possible -- to keep a low profile at home, rather than bugging out and going all Mad Max on the world. I just don't have the leather clothes for the part!

Stay safe,
Dirty Bob

 

[41magsnub]

"The guys that think they can rely on a 4x4 or a pick up truck to get them out of trouble think again.

Most people with a working SUV or pickup in New Orleans had it commandeered by the local police."

I never heard that. Do you have a link to expound on that?

 

[cslinger]

For any likely SHTF I cannot imagine that one would be underarmed with just about any firearm they have and are proficient with.

A .357 magnum revoler, a thutty thutty, a scoped hunting rifle or a tricked out AR15 any will likely get you through the day. Heck even a .22 would likely do the job.

I think the most telling thing about Katrina is that in many cases it once again showed that predators tend to prey on the slow elk/weak prey. I would imagine firing a round or two of .357 even just as a noise maker would run all but the most determined predators off.

That being said I would think any handgun / rifle or shotgun combo with a couple hundred rounds of ammo would probably be more then sufficient to make you a bit stronger more threatening then the other elk of the herd.

 

[JWarren]

I plan -- if at all possible -- to keep a low profile at home, rather than bugging out and going all Mad Max on the world.

The problem is that you WILL have to leave your home at some point.


Regardless of how much planning you do, there will be a point that you have reason to leave home.

The FIRST action I did once we cleared our road was start my 2.5 hour journey (only 15 miles) to my parent's house to make sure they were alive and well.

And then there is fuel. I don't know a single person that has enough fuel to sustain themselves for the 8 weeks that we were out of power and water.

If you DO store that much, you had better hope that it doesn't go bad.


At some point, you will need to go out for some type of need. Chances are you will be returning with something that a lot of people would want.


It's not going all Mad Max. It is being prepared for what may come.



But the point isn't lost. If at all possible, you need to stay home all you can. After all... when you are elsewhere, who is looking after your property?


-- John

 

[GunTech]

+1 Jwarren

I'd plan on hunkering down in place unless I had no choice. You probably can't carry everything you'd like/need.

You should have 2 weeks of food and water if posible, and the person who brought up medications was spot on. That's a big concern, particularly for people with chronic conditions. Forget about running to the store at the last minute. A radio is also a must, preferably something that can be used without batteries.

I handgun is always useful, and as noted, is what you are most likely to have on your person. I generally have a rifle in my cars as well, becuse I spend a lot of time in the woods.

You should also remmeber that you can't count on the authorities. In a widespread disaster, even emergency service may elect not to reprot for work - they have families too.

 

[Master Blaster]

A reason to have a rifle wow, I didnt know I neeeeeeeedeed a Reason to have one.

Here's one for ya, Bullet proof vests, It seems bad folks wear them sometimes, and that Itty Bitty underpowered handgun I'm KEEPIN IT REAL WITH, aint gonna defeat a vest.

Carry on now.

 

[miko]

Light and fast, fairly concealable for me is a Marlin 1894C in 357 with a few revolvers to back it up.

A Marlin lever with 18-inch barrel fits into a tennis racket case, with a stock removed (one bolt).


Having a rifle that can reach out to 300 yards? That might mean you can pick up that animal (deer, dog, cat) for your next meal or that it will likely go through a cinderblock or a car engine block at 50 yards or throgh the wall of your house - all situations one might face in SHTF scenario.

miko

 

[plexreticle]

I never heard that. Do you have a link to expound on that?

http://kursetnawlins.blogspot.com/2007_05_01_archive.html

The police had to commandeer any vehicle they could. He said the ones that worked the best were school buses - apparently they are easy to hot-wire!!

I told him that one of my colleagues had a mini-van with about 250,000 miles on it that was commandeered by the cops. Painted on the side was a huge Saints fluer de lis. My colleague saw his van on the TV footage and was proud that it was doing something to help someone somewhere in this city.

The cop told me that for days they went on like this - commandeering a vehicle and using it until it ran out of gas. It wasn't until the army arrived that there were supplies of gasoline for the vehicles and boats.

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/search-and-rescue/articles/121658/

To supplement the sometimes heroic, sometimes spotty help from outside agencies, Bayard said, his officers relied heavily on their own guile. They siphoned gas from flooded vehicles, commandeered high-water trucks, removed car batteries for electricity.



http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09_29.html

"Our employees evacuated the area at the urging of the leaders of the community. It had been something of a challenge to get our employees back. We had our fuel commandeered by FEMA, and the housing situation's been a challenge for us, but we feel like we're working that out."


http://www.wdsu.com/news/14334326/detail.html?rss=no&psp=news

An investigation later determined the vehicle was commandeered for police use following Hurricane Katrina and that Privott had continuously used the truck for more than a year until his arrest.

http://newsbeat1.com/2005_09_04_archive.html

Slept in til 7am today. The police and military still control the streets and they're patrolling in force by vehicle -- you can see this on the cam. A lot of people have asked about the vehicles and who's in them. They're all police vehicles now -- commandeered.

 

[BridgeWalker]

One option we have thought about a lot is getting out of the city/suburbs. Riots don't happen quite so much in the country. When shtf we go, any way we can, to our safe spot in the country. We know at least a couple dozen routes, from freeway to back road and everything in between. There is as close as humanly possible to an endless supply of fresh water and shelter designed to function without modern utilities.

When we, and everyone else, lost power a couple summers ago for several days we lit out for there, mostly because living in an area where water and sewer were run on electric pumps made life unpleasant without electricity. Too bad the power came back on and work reopened, or we'd've had a nice vacation.

Definitely the core of this plan is concealed handguns, with the Mosin and the shotguns backing up should we need to defend our spot. But it's a tough decision, because as much as being in the city throughout a disaster scares us, we do have several months' worth of food, a couple weeks' worth of water, and (not yet enough) ammo in a bomb shelter (thank you, cold war) in our basement. We could bring a lot of food in the Jeep though, and ammo. Wouldn't need water, unless we didn't make it to our spot.