Shipping a rifle at the post office

[Hatterasguy]

Walk in rack the bolt to empty the chamber, while yelling that you need to ship something.

 

[kingpin008]

My local PO outright refused since I was not a dealer. Even after they brought out a copy of the book.

I would have called their supervisor right then and there, and asked them why their subordinate refuses to follow USPS regulations.

As I said, they cannot refuse a legal shipment. They may be more stubborn than you, but in the end, the regulations are what they are.

 

[kludge]

It was the postmaster who refused. When I look it up on the internet they had been there less than a year.

 

[kingpin008]

Then go above the postmaster.

 

[mscott]

A call to the ATF&E resolved our local problem.

 

[danez71]

As I said, they cannot refuse a legal shipment. They may be more stubborn than you, but in the end, the regulations are what they are.

With all due respect.... why do you say this? Why cant they refuse?

In 2004, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the USPS was not a government-owned corporation.

In other words, they are a private intity with special privledges. Similar to Freddie Mac and Fannie May.


Why cant they refuse service to anyone just as Mc D's can or any other private business?

 

[A.H. Fox]

Just tell them it is a surprise gift to your Mom and that you need to mail it to yourself. If what is in the package is on the outside it will spoil the surprise for your 79 year old Mom who is turning 80. Is it anything dangerous? they ask...nope just this super fancy, super expensive picture frame thingy, piece of hand made art with all the kids and grand kids pictures in it, but I need to insure and certify this thing cuz it took me months to get it from the place I bought it and I ain't gunna want to answer to my wife cuz she said to insure and certify the mailing.

Tell them you will be in heap big trouble from your wife if you mess this simple little thing up. That should cover it....

 

[kingpin008]

With all due respect.... why do you say this? Why cant they refuse?

If I walked in there ranting and raving and asking to ship a bazooka to my Aunt Cathy, then yeah, they could refuse me.

But shipping rifles and shotguns is something that they specifically allow in their own regulations. I'm not asking them to break the law, or their own regs. I'm not being belligerent.

So yeah, the fool behind the counter might be able to tell me to go pound sand, but I guarantee that if I go high enough up the chain of command, someone will tell that rogue clerk to shut up and do their job.

The problem is that too many of us don't bother to tell them what their job is, and instead accept the ruling of some clerk on a power trip who's decided for themselves what they will and will not accept for shipment.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Regarding the right of the post office to refuse to take an item:

The Post Office, by their own manual, only reserves the right to refuse nonmailable or improperly packaged articles or substances. The Domestic Mail Manual says that will accept everything else:

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#1_6

1.6 General Mailability and Right of Refusal
Articles presented for mailing must be prepared under the general and specific standards in this document. The USPS accepts properly packaged and marked parcels but reserves the right to refuse nonmailable or improperly packaged articles or substances. Additional or other standards can apply to overseas military Post Offices and international mail.

AND

8.11 Refusal of Nonmailable Matter
USPS employees may refuse an article for mailing if the content of the article is described by the mailer or otherwise revealed to be nonmailable.

8.12 Authorizing Mailability
A postmaster may decide whether articles and substances other than written, printed, or graphic matter are nonmailable and, where appropriate, is authorized to refuse to accept for mailing such matter determined to be nonmailable. The mailer may seek a review of the postmaster's decision by the PCSC. The mailer may file a written appeal of the PCSC ruling with the USPS Recorder, Judicial Officer, with a copy or description of the determination or ruling. The rules of procedure for the determination of such appeals are in 39 CFR 953.

 

[dogtown tom]

A.H. Fox: ...If what is in the package is on the outside...

It is a violation of Federal law to mark the outside of the box with anything that identifies the shipment as containing a firearm.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It is a violation of Federal law to mark the outside of the box with anything that identifies the shipment as containing a firearm.

Is there a law that I am unaware of? It is against Federal law for a common or contract carrier to require or cause marking the outside of the package. It is not a violation to mark the outside of the box if you are not a common or contract carrier:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm

.

 

[SaxonPig]

KB- Yes, I am aware of the rules and I have always gone to the "hubs."

With zero success.

 

[dogtown tom]

NavyLT

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom
It is a violation of Federal law to mark the outside of the box with anything that identifies the shipment as containing a firearm.

Is there a law that I am unaware of?...

Yep!

USPS Domestic Mail Manual
601 Mailability
12.7 Prohibited Parcel Marking
For any parcel containing a firearm or a ballistic or switchblade knife, any marking that indicates the contents is not permitted on the outside wrapper or container.

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1198527

 

[NavyLCDR]

Thank you! So I can ship my rifle in it's original box from Ruger by UPS or FEDEX but I can't mail it in the original box.

 

[danez71]

8.12 Authorizing Mailability
A postmaster may decide whether articles and substances other than written, printed, or graphic matter are nonmailable and, where appropriate, is authorized to refuse to accept for mailing such matter determined to be nonmailable. The mailer may seek a review of the postmaster's decision by the PCSC. The mailer may file a written appeal of the PCSC ruling with the USPS Recorder, Judicial Officer, with a copy or description of the determination or ruling. The rules of procedure for the determination of such appeals are in 39 CFR 953.

This seems to say they can refuse it and you have the right to appeal.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This seems to say they can refuse it and you have the right to appeal.

They are only authorized to refuse to accept what is nonmailable. If they decide your rifle is nonmailable, then yes you can appeal their determination that it is nonmailalbe. I would have to dig further, but I think there is a way to expedite the appeal process.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

It is a violation of Federal law to mark the outside of the box with anything that identifies the shipment as containing a firearm.

What if you use a firearms box to mail a pogo stick?

 

[kingpin008]

What if you use a firearms box to mail a pogo stick?

A pogo stick isn't a firearm. It's only illegal to mark the packaging as containing a firearm if it actually contains a firearm.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

A pogo stick isn't a firearm. It's only illegal to mark the packaging as containing a firearm if it actually contains a firearm

I know,it wasn't a serious question.:=)

 

[dogtown tom]

If the pogo stick is less than 26" OAL (extended) it would be under the minimum length prescribed by NFA and therefore nonmailable.

 

[NavyLCDR]

A pogo stick isn't a firearm. It's only illegal to mark the packaging as containing a firearm if it actually contains a firearm.

Give it time. California, New York or New Jersey will make them firearms. It's only a matter of which state does it first.

 

[W.E.G.]

correction as to the common carrier issue understood

thanks for the clarification

 

[danez71]

Give it time. California, New York or New Jersey will make them firearms. It's only a matter of which state does it first.

Dont forget Chicago

 

[danez71]

They are only authorized to refuse to accept what is nonmailable. If they decide your rifle is nonmailable, then yes you can appeal their determination that it is nonmailalbe. I would have to dig further, but

I think there is a way to expedite the appeal process.

Actually... after further thought.... No. Thats not what it says.

A postmaster may decide whether articles and substances other than written, printed, or graphic matter are nonmailable and, where appropriate, is authorized to refuse to accept for mailing such matter determined to be nonmailable.

The postmaster can decide if its mailaible.... and .... is authorized to rufe to ship.

You can appeal if it is mailable in the 1st place and if it was "appropriate" to refuse.

The way I see it, the postmaster gets to use their descretion in determining (like a cop writing a ticket for "unsafe speed") and you get to appeal (like fighting the ticket by saying I was traveling at a distance acceptable to the driving codes).

 

[grace2u]

Ok, so I'm confused...I want to purchase a used rifle from an individual within the state of Tennessee to be shipped to me on the other end of Tennessee. Can he ship it to me via USPS? I'm confused by the whole ship to self vs transfer jazz. In the state of Tennessee, there is no registration or hoops to jump through for selling a firearm owned by one individual to another individual.