I moved here from Maryland about 5 years ago. I left with my mom a S&W Airweight .38 J-Frame. Now can she ship that gun directly to me as I own it already without having to go through a FFL? Or could I have my Father ship it to me using his name omitting the SR so it appears I am shipping the gun to myself (same name). Or will I have to wait until I travel to MD the next time to pick it up and bring it back?
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Shipping Question
- Thread starter chipperi
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bonza
Member
Being a handgun your parents will need to take it to an FFL in their area to have it shipped from an to an FFL near you. Alternately, wait until you make a visit home & bring it back with you, or have your parents bring it with them if they come to see you.
NavyLCDR
member
Being a handgun your parents will need to take it to an FFL in their area to have it shipped from an to an FFL near you
Unless Maryland has some restrictive state laws regarding handgun shipping, the above quote is not required by Federal law. Federal law only requires that the handgun be transferred by an FFL in the recipient's state. The parents could ship the handgun directly to a TN FFL, if MD state law allows it.
NavyLCDR
member
Or could I have my Father ship it to me using his name omitting the SR so it appears I am shipping the gun to myself (same name).
You could do that, but it would be committing a couple of felonies against seperate restrictions contained in Title 18, Chapter 44, Section 922 (18USC922).
kingpin008
Member
Not actually fully correct. Quote from the ATF
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
The law is a little fuzzy on whether you have to personally hand wrap and send or if anyone can, however the relevant word is "Possession" which does not mean pack and ship it means own, control or have exclusive use of.
If you want to spend the money on 2 FFL fees and a NICS check for peace of mind go ahead it is not however required
FFL is required if the possession changes, sales, transfers, in some states gifting.
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
The law is a little fuzzy on whether you have to personally hand wrap and send or if anyone can, however the relevant word is "Possession" which does not mean pack and ship it means own, control or have exclusive use of.
If you want to spend the money on 2 FFL fees and a NICS check for peace of mind go ahead it is not however required
FFL is required if the possession changes, sales, transfers, in some states gifting.
NavyLCDR
member
The law is a little fuzzy on whether you have to personally hand wrap and send or if anyone can, however the relevant word is "Possession" which does not mean pack and ship it means own, control or have exclusive use of.
If you want to spend the money on 2 FFL fees and a NICS check for peace of mind go ahead it is not however required
It would appear that you are mixing two seperate requirements. For the mother or father to ship the package to the son who lives out of state would be a violation of 18 USC 922, which would be a felony:
Sec. 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful--
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
The mom or dad would be transporting and/or deliverying the firearm even though the son owns it. And even if you want to say that they are not delivering, the shipping company is, then they would have to provide written notice to the common carrier of the shipment, and I guarantee the common carrier wouldn't touch it.
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
However, there is nothing prohibiting the mom or dad from shipping the firearm directly to an FFL in the recipients state for transfer, then neither of the above statutes would apply. So your statement about the expense of two FFL's is in error, only one is required.
Also, it would be against 18 USC 922 even for a FFL in MD to ship the firearm directly to the son in another state unless it was being returned from repair:
(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that--
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;
Confusion here between what a "Licenced" (FFL) and an "Unlicenced" (everyone else) has to follow with regard to personal, already owned as opposed to "for sale", transfer or consignment property. The point in (e) is the "in interstate or foreign commerce" element not personal ownership and movement.
The movement is not BY the parent to the child (which requires transferal and movement of ownership) it is FOR and ON BEHALF the child.
Further to the ATF
(B10) May a person who is relocating out of State move firearms with other household goods? [Back]
Yes. A person who lawfully possesses a firearm may transport or ship the firearm interstate when changing his or her State of residence.
Certain NFA firearms must have prior approval from the Bureau of ATF before they may be moved interstate. The person must notify the mover that firearms are being transported. He or she should also check State and local laws where relocating to ensure that movement of firearms into the new State does not violate any State law or local ordinance.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(4) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.28 and 478.31]
If you own the firearm and assuming no further state restrictions there is no requirement to go through an FFL.
The firearm stays in the legal possession of the owner irrespective of their physical location, no transfer or sale has taken place and as such no other intermediary is required.
The common carrier, UPS/FEDEX/DHL must be informed of the contents that is all.
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
If in doubt, contact the ATF directly
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Office of Public and Governmental Affairs
99 New York Ave. NE
Mail Stop 5S144
Washington, DC 20226
The movement is not BY the parent to the child (which requires transferal and movement of ownership) it is FOR and ON BEHALF the child.
Further to the ATF
(B10) May a person who is relocating out of State move firearms with other household goods? [Back]
Yes. A person who lawfully possesses a firearm may transport or ship the firearm interstate when changing his or her State of residence.
Certain NFA firearms must have prior approval from the Bureau of ATF before they may be moved interstate. The person must notify the mover that firearms are being transported. He or she should also check State and local laws where relocating to ensure that movement of firearms into the new State does not violate any State law or local ordinance.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(4) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.28 and 478.31]
If you own the firearm and assuming no further state restrictions there is no requirement to go through an FFL.
The firearm stays in the legal possession of the owner irrespective of their physical location, no transfer or sale has taken place and as such no other intermediary is required.
The common carrier, UPS/FEDEX/DHL must be informed of the contents that is all.
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
If in doubt, contact the ATF directly
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Office of Public and Governmental Affairs
99 New York Ave. NE
Mail Stop 5S144
Washington, DC 20226
Last edited:
NavyLCDR
member
Personally, I would have a very good lawyer on retainer before I shipped a firearm to any private individual in another state even if they were the owner of the firearm and they gave me power of attorney to do so.
And I am not one known to be particularly over cautious by any means but I personally wouldn't fool around with this one. Heck, even if my really good lawyer said it was Ok, I would tell him "Here's your Power of Attorney, you do it!".
This one, to me, is where I personally would draw my line about relying upon each word and punctuation mark in the law for me to feel comfortable I was following it.
And I am not one known to be particularly over cautious by any means but I personally wouldn't fool around with this one. Heck, even if my really good lawyer said it was Ok, I would tell him "Here's your Power of Attorney, you do it!".
This one, to me, is where I personally would draw my line about relying upon each word and punctuation mark in the law for me to feel comfortable I was following it.
Aww hell too much legal BS for a piece of property I own. I will just wait until I go back to Baltimore. Thank you ATF for being a gratuitous pain in the A$$!
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