Shoot/Don't shoot? Road rage idiocy

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Josey

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You are on an off ramp from the freeway. You are going to make a right turn onto a surface street. The light is holding traffic back. You are waiting for the light to change. The light changes, you begin to accelerate through your turn and suddenly hear crunch. A dually truck has suddenly struck your vehicle in the right side. It is not in a travel lane but, it was traveling in the breakdown lane. The driver is flipping you the bird and standing on the accelerator!! The truck is pushing your car and you into the intersection. The truck driver is not backing off and seems intent on causing harm. What would you do?
 
i once had some whacko in a truck ram me from behind at 50 mph and push my poor little mazda to up over 100 and then he tried to ram me off to the side.. thankfully years of playing video games ;) let me think fast enough to wait for him to get beside me and then slam on the brakes and pull a 180 then high tail it out of there. lucky for that guy i was on my way to the airport (this happened about 3 months after 9/11) and i left my pistol at home rather than deal with all the hassle with bringing it with me. if i would have had it with me he would have been picking hollow points outta his engine block and cab for a month.
 
deadly force

1. (highly improbable) match the threat...draw and shoot .40sw if reasonable.

2. given that you are being pushed.....hit the gas and swerve out in the safest direction.
 
What's a "dually" truck?

I wouldn't fire my weapon until I had attempted to out-maneuver the other vehicle with my own. Now if I was in my old Subaru Justy instead of my current Nissan Maxima, I might have an easier time proving immediacy of injury/death to the court.
 
What's a "dually" truck?

A large pick up with dual rear tires. Commonly used for towing trailers; campers, boats, horse trailers etc. A BIG vehicle with lots of mass and horsepower.

Is the truck driver a mutant alien bear? :neener:

I drive a pick up sized vehicle myself, so I wouldn't be in the same situation as someone in a small sedan. I would try to evade first. See if I couldn't get away. If I do get clear and he hits me again, then he has demonstrated intent to do me harm. He also has the present ability to do me harm as well. Now the question is would it be reasonable and prudent to use deadly force? In New Mexico, I probably could get away with shooting him at that point. Since it is legal to carry in a motor vehicle in NM, there is very likely a precedent or two if you know where to look.
 
If someone's pushing/ramming you with a vehicle you'll have your hands more than full trying to keep some semblance of control of your own vehicle.

As Earnhardt used to say, to win a race you have to finish the race.
 
In my state there was a very noticeable reduction in road rage aggression when conceealed carry became common.

In your situation I'd incline to lock the brakes, at least if you're not at an angle where you're going to get flipped - he's already damaged your car, and you've got more power in your four brakes than in your engine. It'll also make a nice clear trail for the investigator, and avoid questions about one-sided aggression versus consensual fight. Also, if he's pushing a car with locked brakes, he may get sheet metal to cut one of his tires if you're lucky.

The next question is what happens if he incapacitates your vehicle and then comes after you. I used to keep a jack handle on the front floor, which was some comfort, but that's when a carry piece is really nice to have.

As some others have pointed out, you've described a scenario which makess a pretty good case for justified use of deadly force - but the real question is what response best serves your goals of survival, freedom, and minimizing damage (in that order). (If you had an armed passenger, it all would have been much simpler - good reason to pick women who aren't afraid to learn prudent skills!)

One problem with encounters like that is you may find yourself seething with rage for days or weeks - you have to get that under control. The fear hangover is easier to deal with, since you can reduce it by taking precautions for the future.

So what did you (or your friend) do?
 
A dually truck has suddenly struck your vehicle in the right side. . . . The driver is flipping you the bird and standing on the accelerator!! The truck is pushing your car and you into the intersection.
Click to expand...
Deliberate use of a motor vehicle to cause harm - sounds like assault with a deadly weapon to me. He's hit the side of your car, so you're being pushed sideways. He has a MUCH larger vehicle - you're not in control.

(I assume there's nothing else pertinent you've left out.)

Seeing as you're suffering an unprovoked assault that puts you in imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death, shooting the dually driver would seem to be a reasonable and prudent response to defend your life.
 
Back around 1988, I was in my 1982 Datsun/Nissan Stanza, and a fellow in a dually got tired of waiting in a car wash line, and pulled around me. Sort of.

Crunched the rear of my car.

Folks got his license while he drove off.

Cops found him, and he claimed that he never even felt or heard hitting my car. I sorta believe him.

Little car + big truck + being forced into traffic with something maybe gonna run into YOUR side of the vehicle... I'd draw, lay on the horn, and start screaming. If the guy didn't immediately modify behavior, he'd have to buy a new engine, or at least a few parts. If that doesn't change his behavior, and he comes after me on foot, he's crazy, and I'm in fear of my life.
 
just had something happen today.

I'm pulling out of my firehouse and i take the right when the light turns green. A new copper colored small suv that's about 3 cars back in the line cuts his nose across the double yellow blocking me and he flips me the bird. I honked at him and went up on the curb and around. Turns out it was one of the paid firefighters from the city who has this thing against volunteers, specifically me because i pass the city's firehouse going from campus to the station for calls. Very unprofessional.

If i had known i would have gave him a love tap just to f*** up the paint on his bumper. My car's indestructable so i wouldn't have cared one way or another about doing it and it was his vehicle that was across the double yellows in my local where i know the cops.
 
:rolleyes: Why is this a hard question? There are, at least, three incidents of the police shooting someone for using a motor vehicle as a weapon in the news - right now! If it's OK for a police officer to defend himself by using his gun in this sort of situation, then, 'Why' wouldn't it be equally correct for a civilian to empty his gun into the windshield of an attacking vehicle? ;)
 
I think mechanics are going to pose more difficulty than legalities in this case. Unless your driving a large truck yourself the disparity in heights between your vehicle that the other drivers truck is going to make it nigh impossible to make a shot. All your going to be seeing in your window is his grill.
 
Road rage

Anyone here remember the first shooting by a Texas CHL holder?
Road rage incident...the guy was driving a company truck, idiot passed him ON AN OFFRAMP and clipped his mirror. (side comment: in the years I drove a company truck, any damage was the driver's fault no matter what really happened)...he followed the other guy to get his tag number and the guy stopped short, cut him off and ran back to the truck and starts throwing punches through the window. 3 or 4 .40's at point blank put a permanent end to it; the attacker was a 400 pound Samoan. DPD didn't press charges and IIRC the civil suit was quietly dropped.
 
All your going to be seeing in your window is his grill.
Click to expand...
2-3 rounds in the radiator will allow him to let off steam eventually. Of course you'll be deafened for awhile and now you're 2-3 rounds less. "WHAT'S THAT OFFICER? SPEAK UP PLEASE, CAN'T HEAR A WORD YOU SAID"
Later, you have your attorney sue Ford, GM or Dodge and the dealership for allowing their product to be sold, KNOWING that someone is going to use them illegally and cause injury and harm. ;)
 
Won't be a popular answer, but I think trying to fire a gun in this situation is questionable advice. You would indeed have your hands full without that complication, and since you and I are responsible for every round we fire, I find it optimistic (to put it nicely) to think your aim will be true in such a situation. Way, way too easy to injure or kill an innocent bystander.

My vote is to learn true defensive driving (examples above), and use your car as your primary weapon and defense until or unless you're put into a position where your firearm must be effectively brought to bear.

Now if this happens out in the middle of nowhere ... then the firearm makes more sense to bring out earlier in the attack, assuming skilled use of your vehicle doesn't resolve matters.

Regards from TX
 
I have a fairly quick/fast/agile car, so escape & evasion is my first line of defense. If I can get some distance and set up a shot, maybe (i.e. no better alternative), but more likely, I'm gonna get on outa there and dial 911.
 
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