Shooting a Revolver "correctly"

[S&W-M&P360-3INCH]

One thing I notice when I shoot a Revolver is that my shots don't always hit the paper where I put my Sights. When I shoot a Semi-Automatic, nearly all my shots hit where I aim. Please not, this could be from 7 yards or 16 yards.

I prefer revolvers over Semi-Automatics, but the fact that I do better with a Semi-Auto vs a Revolver bugs me. I would like to be able to "master" the revolver. Any help would be good and appreciated.

Here's one thing I've noticed when I shoot my M&P 360. I aim for the Center of the Target, but my shots end up to the left. Now, when I aim for the Center of a Target while using a Semi-Auto, my shots hit the center and my groups are pretty good, unlike a Revolver, where my groups are good but not good enough.

I have tried 3 different rounds of ammunition for my M&P 360. I've shot Federal American Eagle 130 Grain .38 Special (NON +P), Speer LE Gold Dot 125 Grain .38 Special +P, and CCI Blazer 158 Grain .357 Magnum.

When I shot the .357 Magnum Rounds, I must say, I wasn't sure what would happen because the M&P 360 weighs 14.7 oz empty but I shot 5 rounds and actually my hand didn't hurt and I even felt better shooting the .357 Magnum Rounds, even if they weren't heavy rounds. Another thing is that shot placement was better with the .357 Magnum Rounds.

One thing I know I have to get over is not having a 3-4 lb competition trigger anymore.

So, if anyone has any way I could improve my Revolver Skills, then please tell me. Maybe I'm not gripping the Revolver correctly, Maybe I'm not pulling the Trigger correctly. I don't know for sure.

-Adam

 

[oldfool]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=550910

thread downpage here, good place to start

 

[bluetopper]

Are you shooting your revolver single action or double action?

 

[S&W-M&P360-3INCH]

parisite: I'm shooting my Revolver in Double Action mode. I don't really like using the Single Action method.

What is the trigger pull weight for a S&W J-Frame anyways?

oldfool: Thanks, I'll read that thread.

-Adam

 

[GP100man]

Put your trigger finger where the trigger hits the first joint instead of the pad of finger .

Common problem with snubbies or grips that are too small & med to large hands .

What`s happens is the finger when trigger is on the pad pushes the muzzle over .

& WELCOME TO THR FORUMS !!!!!!!!!

 

[Old Fuff]

There are a number of factors in place here that are not necessarily ammunition-related, although the loads you use may make a difference.

Your revolver only weighs 14.7 oz, and has a short barrel. Thus the weight of the gun is less then that of the trigger pull, regardless of if you are shooting in the single-action or double-action mode. You are trying to apply a pressure (the trigger pull) against an object (the revolver) and yet not disturb the sight alignment. Obviously this is made worse if you are shooting double-action. In addition your revolver has a very small handle to hold on to, which compounds the difficulty. I believe you are shooting to the left (if you are right-handed) because your trigger finger is pushing against the side of the trigger as well as backwards while you pull it, and while this side pressure may not be much, the gun doesn't have enough weight to counter-balance it.

I don’t know what pistol you are using, but you have picked the worst possible revolver to compare it against.

What to do? Start by only loading one or two chambers at random and the rest with fired cases, and then spin the cylinder so that you don't know when the live ones will come up. Then check your grip to make sure your finger isn't against the right side of the trigger (you may have to change the stocks to something that will better support your hand and position your trigger finger). Then carefully aim the gun at the target, watch your sights, and go "click" until you go "bang!" and you will soon get a clue as to what is happening.

As an aside: While it is harder to carry, a heavier all-steel revolver is much easier to make precise hits with, and bullet placement is the real object, not what's most convenient to CCW.

 

[Nasty]

Simple lack of mastery of marksmanship fundamentals.

Learn and practice them...period.

 

[Old Fuff]

Simple lack of mastery of marksmanship fundamentals.

While marksmanship fundamentals are important, accurate double-action shooting with any revolver requires some different techniques. When the revolver in question is one of the small-frame, super lightweight snubbies these techniques become more important, and all this requires going on to some new fundamentals.

Learn and practice them...period.

Which is easier said then done...

I suggest that those who are seriously interested in double-action revolver shooting buy an old (mid 1930's) book: Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting, by Ed. McGivern. They will be found at www.amazon.com with both new and used copies being available.

Be aware that early editions are collector's items that sometimes fetch over $100.00. Unless you are a book collector this isn't what you want. New reprints go for around $30.00, and used reprints for generally less.

 

[Gryffydd]

Start by dry firing at home. Put a dot on the wall and practice the DA pull while paying attention to your sights. Make sure they never leave the dot throughout the trigger pull.

 

[huntershooter]

I've always maintained a "J frame" S&W is an experts gun.
The idiots in the gun shops that recommend them as a "good first gun for the wife" are doing no favors in their recommendation from my view.

That said; I agree with advice given-practice.
Finger position on the trigger is important with shooting any revolver double action, doubly so with an alloy frame "J frame". I would experiment with different positions (tip, pad, first joint) to see which disturbs the sight picture the least.

 

[bsms]

"I suggest that those who are seriously interested in double-action revolver shooting buy an old (mid 1930's) book: Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting, by Ed. McGivern. They will be found at www.amazon.com with both new and used copies being available."

Just ordered it for a little over $12 delivered...

 

[bsms]

I'd suggest a bigger gun. It is much easier to shoot my 3" 686 than my 2" Model 60. The 60 was designed for easy concealed carry and compromises on good shooting. It is primarily meant for self-defense, which is normally at a range under 20 feet.

With practice, folks can shoot it very accurately at much greater ranges, but it isn't designed for target shooting.

 

[CraigC]

Focus. Leave the autos at home. IMHO, 'most' shooters try to do too much at one time. I know that when I was younger I would take a bunch of guns to the range every session. While it might be fun and make you feel like you're getting your money's worth out of your guns, it does nothing for building skill. Shoot as often as you can with one gun and see where you are in six months.

 

[cavman]

Start by dry firing at home. Put a dot on the wall and practice the DA pull while paying attention to your sights. Make sure they never leave the dot throughout the trigger pull.

This will be the best bang for the buck. Once you can master this at home, the skills will be there when you have a live round in the chamber.

 

[BCRider]

'3inch. the guys that are mentioning the trigger being more on the first joint are spot on. Even with my large size hands I shoot all my revolvers with the trigger sitting on the fold of the first joint. If I try to seat the trigger further towards the tip of my trigger finger I'd end up with my groups off to the left much like it sounds like you're getting.

You're likely realizing by now that you can't use a semi auto grip style with a wheelgun. The hand position is just way too different for the two types of gun.

There was a very nice set of four short videos on the 'net by Jerry Miculek. But sadly they've been withdrawn and I can't find them anywhere anymore. However there's a DVD out there of Jerry's shooting techiques and I'm pretty sure that the excerpts that were on the web will be in the DVD. It seems to go for around $30 but if the bits I saw are from the DVD it's well worth the money.

There's a lot of "how to grip your revolver" videos on YouTube as well. One I saw showed the support hand thumb being well out in front semi auto style. The vid was good other than the location of that support hand thumb which was too close to the gas jet off the cylinder gap for my tastes. There's lots of other ones too. Just do a YouTube search for "revolver grip".

 

[S&W-M&P360-3INCH]

Thanks for all the Tips and Ideas!

I have noticed that the Joint of my Index Finger is on the Trigger. I will start practicing just using the middle area of my first finger (middle of the Nail).

I have ordered a Hogue Monogrip, which should be here tomorrow, so will see how that goes.

By the way, I've owned different length revolvers with different size frames. Longest barrel length being 4" (Ruger Super Redhawk .45 Colt) and I still had trouble.

If I start putting my finger where it's suppose to go, then I feel I will have better shot placement. I do believe practice makes perfect.

I also will do dry fire practice and I have a video from Jerry Miculek, "Ultimate Advanced Revolver". Haven't watched it yet, and not sure it's the right video for me but I'll find out.

-Adam

 

[joshk-k]

"I have noticed that the Joint of my Index Finger is on the Trigger. I will start practicing just using the middle area of my first finger (middle of the Nail). "

No! What all of these posters have been saying is that you want the trigger at the first joint, not on the pad anterior to the nail!

Despite not liking shooting single action, you might try some practice like that anyway. I usually shoot a few cylinders single action to warm up and just get a feel for everything before switching to double action. At the very least, you should be accurate and consistent enough in single action to eliminate any questions about whether the ammo you're using is part of the problem.

Not to sound condescending, but if you're not already, try holding the gun with both hands.

JOsh

 

[btg3]

Best J-frame advice that I got was: "get your strong hand as high on the grip as possible".

Grip-stance-sightpicture... then you're ready to practice trigger pull.

Shooting a J-frame is fun and easier to become proficient than some would have us believe. I think you have some great resources lined up which should do the trick, but if you want to get better in a hurry, get some coaching from an instructor.

 

[oldfool]

color me odd man out, but I favor pad of trigger finger, (centered under fingernail)
matter of LOP, mostly all about grips
relying on the extra perceived leverage of "more" finger does not automatically lead to as STRAIGHT back pull, whatever gets you "straight back", is what you need to recognize and practice

dry fire drills, balancing coins on the barrel, a pulse laser triggered by hammer, a snap cap dud in the cylinder with live 5, etc. all good routines, any/all combinations of those, followed up by live fire (lots of it), no one thing is the answer, all some part of the answer

 

[BCRider]

....whatever gets you "straight back", is what you need to recognize and practice...

Very, very true. All of our well meaning suggestions are intended to achieve as straight back a trigger motion as you can get. Whatever works for you to do this is what you need.

This is one place where dry firing can really help. Dry fire in double action and really concentrate on the sights. At the moment of the hammer break if you are pulling the trigger correctly the sights will not jump to left or right. If they do then you need to alter your grip and trigger finger placement until the hammer breaks and the sights stay locked with no jiggle to either side.

Also the basics still apply. The gun has to seat back in the web of your thumb and forefinger such that it sits high on the backstrap and such that with your wrist held at a natural angle that the gun is in line with the forearm.

 

[oldfool]

meant none of that in a contentious way
I do it mostly pretty much wrong for most folks

something or other about a short guy with itty bitty girly hands who can't do it right with Hogue & Herrett grips that fit me like custom made gloves, but can't hit with 'em
Maybe on account of easily >100 thousand rounds sent downrange, SA & DA, with them old stock fat butt S&W k-frame "target grips" too big for my little girly hand (on the 1st handgun love of my life and too many others just like it added since)

you folks pay attention to what you hear here from 9mm, Sam911, friend David, and Bullfrog, (and BCR) you will find yourself on the fast track soon enough

just feeling pretty good about myself, on account of running some half decent groups at the range today (let it go when it's "there", bad hands or no).. some days the magic don't work, but some days it do

 

[Guillermo]

The idiots in the gun shops that recommend them as a "good first gun for the wife" are doing no favors in their recommendation

ain't that the damned truth!!!


Check this out
http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/JERRY_MICULEK/jerry_miculek.html

 

[Sevenfaces]

I have an issue, with any gun it seems, that I will always hit the target where the right post of the rear sight is slightly under, I attribute it to a combination of my finger moving the gun as I pull the trigger, as well as the fact my trigger finger is bent which has always (imo) affected any kind of accuracy with throwing balls, etc.

practice practice practice, try and use proper form, or settle like I did, with always aiming slightly left of what you want to hit.

 

[788Ham]

ALSO, when taking the revolver into your hand, place the "grip" into the center of the web of your shooting hand! A lot of folks will "grab the grips of the revolver" just to get ahold of it, not paying attention to how its placed in the hand. Take ahold of the pistol, grabbing more towards the fingers of your hand, squeeze the trigger as if going to shoot a round, see how when squeezing the gun grips you're pulling it to the left? Now, center the revolver into the mid part of your hand, into the mid-web part, try squeezing a round now, see the difference? When you squeeze your hand, as if making a fist, you'll always pull it to the left, just the way the hand works. Also use the pad of your trigger finger, in the joint of the finger you'll be pulling it off also. JMHO, works for me.

 

[BP Hunter]

I had the same problem as you. I bought a Ruger LCR a few months ago and kept on hitting targets to the right of the point of aim. I could never shoot straight with it and was planning to sell it. But when I bought some snap caps and learned the right technique on holding the revolver wll with 2 hands and pulling the trigger straight back, as explained by the above commentors, I have been hitting what I point at since. I have learned to shoot so well with it that I actually began to enjoy the small snubbie. Good luck.