Shooting at Texas Church Leaves Two Dead and One Injured, Gunman Shot By Armed Member

[hso]

part of the church security team

He was part of the volunteer security team.

If you watch the earlier videos you see someone starting to draw close to the BG with the shotgun. He's hit and another parishioner is shot and within those 6 seconds the BG is shot by what appears to be an officer in duty belt (see the bald head to the far left with his arms crossed).

 

[hso]

I don't think that this tragedy will get much time in the main stream press.

All over the news today from CNN to Fox.

 

[bdickens]

For now.

It will disappear.

 

[ATLDave]

A few observations:

1) Somehow, multiple CC’ers did not get confused and start shooting one another. The prospect of the “chaos” of an active shooter situation is often used by anti gunners or even a lot of LEOs to argue that armed citizens would only make things worse.
2). Sadly, the first gentleman murdered gives an object lesson in the efficacy of a slow draw when someone has a gun pointed at you. Slow and smooth just isn’t fast enough in some situations. If you don’t work on speed, don’t try to pull a gun.
3). The shot that ended the horror was hardly “bad breath distance.” Just shooting at 7 yards isn’t enough for all self-defense circumstances.

 

[hso]

The shooter appears to have used a pistol grip shotgun, or something very similar.

Yes, you can see that when the officer that shot the BG takes it away.

 

[KY DAN]

Call me cold hearted but the first guy caught the bullet by himself, I mean he just stood up and thumbed with a suit jack and a untucked shirt that was way to long. Yeah this sucks but come on think the easy stuff before hand. I know key board commando now.

 

[Waveski]

Not at all a helpful post.

 

[Eagle103]

So much for only having to engage targets at 7yds and in as many folks advertise.

And the guy that got shot, which I assume was on the security team as it certainly looked like he was drawing, is a prime example of why not to hesitate to get into the game.

Yep. Two very key points.

 

[Hartkopf]

A few observations:
2). Sadly, the first gentleman murdered gives an object lesson in the efficacy of a slow draw when someone has a gun pointed at you. Slow and smooth just isn’t fast enough in some situations. If you don’t work on speed, don’t try to pull a gun.

I agree. I practice drawing several times every day. Some days 30 to 40 draw and dry fire. And at the range multiple draw and shoot per session.

I only saw a small screen, blurry video. I can’t tell exactly how long from presentation to first shot from the bad guy. From what I can tell, it looks like the first guy to be shot would have had to draw before the bad guy ever presented his weapon. He looked too far away to charge or tackle the bad guy when the shotgun was out. He didn’t have any great options except more situational awareness and having a real good clue what the bad guy might do. Seems most of us suspicious people would have been positioning our selves, with hand on pistol, and watching like a hawk. Ready to be on target in less than a second. Especially towards any guy with a trench coat and a hood in a warm church, who looked to be shifting around quite a bit.

I’ll admit I need to see a better video but the bad guy really looked to be jittery before he presented the shotgun.

 

[Steve S.]

The first person to get their firearm into action with a clear and deliberate mindset will win - you have to be faster than the other guy but the most important tool of survival is a trained mindset - cold deliberateness without hesitation. People practice with their firearms for endless hours but neglect to train their mind for the violence - you have to have the capacity to instantly turn on your violent mind to stop violence.

 

[Trey Veston]

I've made the point for years that in today's active shooter scenarios, knowing what you and your carry pistols capabilities are at longer distances is crucial.

And I still get people mocking me for shooting groups at 25yds...

 

[Jesse Heywood]

One thing I noticed was no one else was wearing an outdoor coat. Thus he stood out in the crowd. Temp was 43*, wind 12-25 mph.Also, notice the usher on the front. While he initially ducks, he then sticks his head in the aisle to watch. I will guess the security team and the church will get some training updates. The video will point out many things that can be improved. I worked for a church in the early 80s. Unless you were LEO, CC was not legal. I was always armed, as were the deacons and ushers. And we had no training. Good to see things improve. Sadly, some gave the ultimate sacrifice. The only good news is that the state won't have to house the BG.

 

[JohnKSa]

Reports are that the shooter was wearing a disguise including a false beard.

The second victim is now reported to have died in the hospital. That makes two victims dead (one during transport, the other in the hospital) and the shooter dead at the scene.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

You guys need to check out John Correia's (ASP Active Self Protection) video on this.

 

[JohnKSa]

Not a bad analysis, but I think he's wrong on one count.

I don't believe the second man shot drew or fired. He was a deacon and I don't think he was part of the security team. I just don't see anything in what he does that suggests he took any action other than to flinch away from the shot.

The zoomed video does make me reconsider one of my initial assessments. I thought that the FBI guy/security guard was distracted by the guy next to him talking with him and didn't see what was going or or begin reacting until the first shot was fired. In the zoomed video it's clear that he was watching the shooter before the shooter pulled out his gun. He saw the shooter pull out his gun at 2:37 and reacted by putting his hand on his gun at 2:38 in response to the visible gun but he did not actually begin to draw for another 3 seconds or so. He begins his draw at maybe 2:41 and fires the final shot at 2:43.

 

[george29]

I have a feeling that the perp was being closely watched, even then, it shows that perception time takes longer than reaction time (good lesson for us all), but what a great shot, wonder what handgun and if he was using a laser. Perp, definitely a SBS, maybe a Shockwave with modified grip (which makes it illegal). What made the perp walk to the back and confront the guy before shooting him?
I no longer go to church but when I did it was also Church of Christ and it seems the layout is exactly the same. Just outside the sanctuary is the foyer where another armed guard sat. About 5 parishioners and deacons were armed inside the sanctuary. The big problem with churches is their liberal attitudes and mindsets, guy with hoody and overcoat that no one knows should have been asked to remove his outerwear but I have a feeling people were squeamish due to how they may have been perceived. Still, I'm certain the guys in back never took their attention off of him.
All in all a great outcome and very good shooting.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

My take away from this is what I (all of us really) have known all along. Our enemies chose the time, place, and method of attack. We have to draw, present, and fire our sidearms after our enemies have already drawn and presented theirs. We have to be lucky every day. Our enemies only have to be lucky once.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

What this really does for me is motivation. I don't carry every day-least of all in church. I have a slow draw. (3-4 seconds, and that's open carry OWB strong side. I'm much more focused on safe gun handling from the holster than I am on speed. In a match, I'm much more likely to DQ myself trying to draw fast than I am to gain any advantage with a 1-2 second draw. Besides, when I draw fast, I typically miss the first shot.

I have to work on ALLLLLL of this, and I need to start immediately.

 

[george29]

Mass shootings usually happen where people congregate, church, synagogue, movies, schools, libraries, shopping centers, bars, parties.
Then you have the other type, murder-suicide, suicide, family gatherings, domestic, accidental.
It does seem to happen more often but statistically, you'll probably fall off your ladder 7 times and die before you'll be involved in a shooting.
That's why I like light little guns when I go out, and since I don't usually do Denny's or hang around gas stations at night, my main concern (paranoia) is home invasion which is just as unlikely. Of course, I'm sort of a hermit and don't even attend church anymore.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

We'll probably never know but I've heard it suggested that the first person shot may have been reaching for a wallet not a gun. Based on how far back he was reaching

 

[taliv]

I've made the point for years that in today's active shooter scenarios, knowing what you and your carry pistols capabilities are at longer distances is crucial.

And I still get people mocking me for shooting groups at 25yds...

keep some perspective in mind.

There are roughly 20 mass shootings per year in the US.
Estimates for total defensive gun uses per year range from 500,000 to 3,000,000. Probably most of those didn’t even include firing a shot just brandishing.


Train at 25-50 yards all you want. But let’s not pretend that just because a few horrific examples grab as much attention as the millions that never make the news, that long distance pistol shooting is Anywhere close to the importance of a reasonably fast draw and ability to put a round on target up close.

 

[SSN Vet]

"A woman who was seated near the gunman said something seemed off from the moment the gunman entered the church. Besides never seeing the man in church before, he also appeared to have a beard and a wig that looked fake. “I should have listened to my gut,” Isabel Arreola, 38, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. “While he was there, I couldn’t sing. I couldn’t pray. There was just something not right about him."

I highly recommend the book "The Gift of Fear", by Gavin de Becker. This woman's statement perfectly illustrates what the book so well articulates.....

When you know, you know....

Fake beard & wig (see it fly off his head when he get's popped), wearing a large bulky jacket when no body else is.

I think the security team read the tea leaves correctly and were keeping their eyes on this turd, but were apparently way too charitable in giving him the benefit of the doubt (perhaps out of a motive to be kind to the poor lost soul seeking redemption).

Better to initiate the contact yourself and in doing so seize the initiative. Closing the distance while the suspected BG is still concealing his intent and saying "Hi there, is there anything I can do to help you" said with an extended hand will very quickly give you a lot of information about them.... Sitting down next to him and asking "Why are you wearing that silly get up?, are you hiding something?"

Notice he doesn't draw the shot gun and fire rapidly... it actually takes him time to stand up and pull it out. If someone was right on top of him, it would have turned into a tussle and could have perhaps achieved a different outcome.

Again, when you know, you know.... ACT ON THAT KNOWLEDGE!

There are several constructive things that could have been done to disrupt this premeditated attack short of drawing on the guy.

 

[ATLDave]

Train at 25-50 yards all you want. But let’s not pretend that just because a few horrific examples grab as much attention as the millions that never make the news, that long distance pistol shooting is Anywhere close to the importance of a reasonably fast draw and ability to put a round on target up close.

This video is interesting because it shows the importance of both a quick draw and the ability to make a single, somewhat difficult shot. This video will be discussed for a long time.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Took my mother in law to Christmas service on Tuesday evening and carried my Walther PPQ M2 in .40 cal because you never know where evil will rear its ugly head. Shared the video with analysis to my friends and family to help educate (and motivate) them to be aware, practice and stay vigilant.

 

[Craig_AR]

Every national news source I have looked at used clipped, edited, and blurred versions of the original YouTube streamed video. Only on firearms-related blog sites have I found the full clear video (Concealed Nation, USA Carry, Breaking911, and John Correia's Active Self Protection). I note that it was John Correia's several presentations at the NRA Personal Protection Expo in Fort Worth last September that convinced me to upgrade my EDC from a 5-shot 38SP J-frame snubby to a double stack 9mm. The new M&P 2.0c is in the house, proper holsters are on order, and I've found a tactical instructor with strong recommendations that I will be able to work with in 2020. This may be my only New Year's Resolution that I complete.