Shooting in a vehicle

[Rio Laxas]

This past summer I encountered a situation for which I was mostly unprepared. I was working out of town for a week with a co-worker, and we were supposed to drive back on Saturday morning. This co-worker is an alcoholic and is apparently an aggressive drunk. He didn't show up when were supposed to leave that morning, and when he did finally show up, he was still drunk and hostile towards me.

To make a long story short, he threatened to kill me and leave me in the woods while I was driving along a remote stretch of highway. I knew that he had a hunting knife somewhere in his possession, though he did not display it or threaten me with it. Luckily, it was just drunken bravado and he backed down and then passed out shortly thereafter. I have since found out that he was under indictment for felony aggravated assault and 3 associated misdemeanors at the time. I was his supervisor on this job, and I did get him fired for this. Since then he has had his bail revoked for those charges and been charged with another count of felony aggravated assault for a separate incident.

While I was carrying a Glock 20 at the time, I was carrying it concealed in a right handed holster. I realized in the aftermath that I probably could not have drawn my pistol and used it effectively had he attacked me, due to his proximity. I have countered this by now always carrying a Glock 26 in a pocket holster on the weak side. Is there any reliable way to draw a pistol on the strong side with the weak hand while seated in vehicle?

Though I have practiced shooting from a vehicle, I can honestly say that I never expected to be in a situation where I might potentially have to use a firearm against the passenger while driving. I guess it really isn't so far fetched in a carjacking scenario, though I would think a carjacker would get in the back.

 

[Field Tester]

There was a great post yesterday in the thread regarding shoulder rig carry where a few posters gave examples on how to deal with that. I'd find it for you but I'm on my phone.

 

[rcmodel]

A strong side holster under a seat belt is almost useless with either hand while seated in a vechicle.

This is one of the few instances where a cross-draw holster on the left appendex makes a lot of sense. It is within reach of either hand.

Myself?
My truck has a door pocket within easy reach with my left hand.
And that's where my handgun usually rides out of the right hand holster while driving.

True, it is slow to fish it out left handed, and transfer it to my right hand to fire towards the window.

But left-hand practice makes it pretty fast to go passenger side with my left hand.

rc

 

[Havok7416]

Myself?
My truck has a door pocket within easy reach with my left hand.

What RC said, with an exception. I am left-handed and this is an easy draw for me (I practice it often). Whether or not I would be able to get the gun into play is another question. I will add that I would never allow someone who was hostile toward me or others into my car for any reason. Obviously if they started getting nasty while we were already driving that might change things.

 

[Rio Laxas]

I will add that I would never allow someone who was hostile toward me or others into my car for any reason.

I totally agree. I almost left him, but decided to wait for a while. He wasn't hostile enough when we were loading up to where I would have expected that kind of threat though, just kind of pissy. It wasn't until until we were well out of town where he became aggressive enough to cause me real concern.

My truck has a door pocket within easy reach with my left hand.
And that's where my handgun usually rides out of the right hand holster while driving.

While I do often carry a backup pistol in that spot in my personal vehicle, this was a company van and it was actually assigned to and mostly used by the other guy.

 

[Schwing]

I also use Rc's method. When I am traveling, I keep my LCR in the door pocket as a backup. I had never really thought much about it until I started working in the I.T. department for my County PD. I noticed that many of the officers keep backups there.

 

[bobinoregon]

Also being left handed I've always thought that was why they put those pockets in pickup doors. The company I work for has always gone with if you arent ready and able when it's time for work you get left behind, find your own way.

 

[thefish]

That's a tough one. While we are all gun lovers here, I think this exact situation, had it escalated, may have been better served by a different approach. I believe sometimes we need to think outside the "gun toolbox".

Being an armchair quarterback, instead of trying to reach for a difficult to get to gun and firing from a compromised and easily disarmed position, I would have slammed the brakes as hard as I could while doing a open or closed backhand chop to the throat to buy some time.

Then pull over and drag him out of the car at gunpoint and leave him there.

This is clearly a case of not knowing your passenger. However, I would examine less the method of carry against a violent front seat passenger, and more situational awareness and how that passenger arrived there in the first place. ( never mind, just read post 5)

Not trying to attack you, just getting you to rethink the decision. The best defense from a violent situation is to not let it develop in the first place, as I am sure you know.

 

[thefish]

Another thought, in retrospect of course.

"Let's pull over, I have to take a leak".

Exit the vehicle with keys in hand. Then remove the passenger. Or suggest he has to take one too, and leave him there after he gets out first.

 

[Mainsail]

You're under no obligation to honor your opponent's choice for location.

Lock up the brakes and bail. Now you have a lot of room and you won't get blood all over your interior.

 

[Rio Laxas]

Not trying to attack you, just getting you to rethink the decision. The best defense from a violent situation is to not let it develop in the first place, as I am sure you know.

I understand. I don't associate with people like this in my personal life and do my best to avoid these potential situations. While it isn't the first time I've the misfortune to work with a drunk, it is the first time I've seen it transform someone that drastically. I'd worked with this guy off and on all summer and the preceding week and never had a problem with him. Obviously alcohol had a pronounced and negative effect on him.

 

[herrwalther]

While I was carrying a Glock 20 at the time, I was carrying it concealed in a right handed holster. I realized in the aftermath that I probably could not have drawn my pistol and used it effectively had he attacked me, due to his proximity. I have countered this by now always carrying a Glock 26 in a pocket holster on the weak side. Is there any reliable way to draw a pistol on the strong side with the weak hand while seated in vehicle?

Using that tactic, the best way to draw would be a cross draw above your appendix, on the right side of the body. Personally, placing a holster somewhere else in the car such as the glove box or side door pocket would be easier to draw.

 

[lemaymiami]

Some of the posts I've read in this thread seem to be great at examining the trees - and completely miss the forest....

In my years on the street both on and off duty I was always armed and carried in a variety of ways. That said, I learned early on that you must not allow yourself to be caught in any confrontation (possibly armed or no weapons present) while still inside your car - since you're terribly vulnerable in that situation. By any means necessary if a threat approaches, arrives, or suddenly reveals itself I always did everything possible to be on my feet outside the car before the party began. The very few times I was caught short were great reminders of just how vulnerable you are sitting in a car....

I'm no martial arts guy, but always did my best to go home in one piece no matter what arose during a day on the job or just going about my business in public. I don't see this as a weapons or holster problem but far more a matter of tactics. At least if I was on my feet I migiht be able to outrun an opponent if all else failed. Heck, I even like the sudden stop, bailing, then removing your possible opponent by force (any force necessary). The absolute last thing I ever wanted was to be needing a weapon while seated in a car.

By the way a key component of our officer survival training in traffic stops was to have the officer exit his vehicle the moment he/she was able to -but not to walk up to the occupied vehicle until backup was on scene. We wanted our officers on their feet, behind the driver's door, with every possible avenue of retreat, escape, or evasion on their side of the equation, since the good guys don't always win in close quarters situations....

 

[j1]

Scary situation gun or no gun.

 

[Sam1911]

If you google Southnarc's vehicle videos you'll get a pretty good idea of how these things can go.

Here's one example.


I would tend to agree with lemaymiami and others that working your way out of the car as you sense hostilities arising is a great idea.



Another thing that should not be overlooked: You survived. That's a very important lesson in that you (obviously) did not shoot or kill the guy to survive this situation. That's not to say that some other time that would still hold true, but it IS to say that you used the other tools in your tool box to arrive at the best possible conclusion.

Drawing a weapon may have ended up coming out in your favor. And hooting him may have been ruled a defensive act. But you achieved a BETTER resolution (for your life and his) without using a weapon.

VERY NICE JOB!

 

[rondog]

I will usually unholster my pistol when I get in my pickup, for the very reason that it's nearly inaccessable when holstered and I'm sitting. My Silverado has three separate seats up front, I just jam my gun into the seam between the drivers seat and the middle seat. The console blocks it from passenger side view, and it's right next to my leg for easy access.

 

[lemaymiami]

One other minor point bears mention here.... no matter how badly you're threatened, how spooked you are, etc. never let on that all your alarms are going off. I had to learn the hard way how quickly anyone you're dealing with can sense it when you tense up and get defensive. Towards the end of my career in LE I finally learned to stay relaxed and calm (at least on the surface) no matter how spooked I was inside when I found myself in a bad spot. Your attitude, demeanor, etc, will play a big part in just how any confrontation plays out. I actually was able late in my career to walk into a scene where blood had been spilled, identify who the bad actor was and usually have them crying on my shoulder before my officers showed up - all without reaching for or drawing a gun. No, I don't recommend this to anyone but how you carry yourself and deal with others without showing fear, apprehension, anger, etc. can actually prevent things from escalating. Wish I'd known that as a young cop, learning things the hard way.... Yes, there are times when a command presence, while controlling someone at gunpoint is very necessary but a softer approach can have benefits (particularly when dealing with drunks or crazies...).

I must say that I can't think of how I'd teach this at a police academy or in any class for armed citizens but it is something to think about.

 

[autospike]

Sometimes just getting out of the car can be a challenge:

 

[Godsgunman]

I am no where near the expert tactics person as some members here but I have a large filet knife that I keep in my vehicle at all times which is wedged between my seat and the center console. Obviously its main role is for the fish I catch but it is easier for me to get to in a situation in which you described and is still hidden from view of any passenger. Maybe a setup like that with an easy access knife could buy you enough time and space to deploy your firearm if need be. I know it isn't a perfect solution but better than hand to hand especially if the attacker is bigger and stronger.

 

[MedWheeler]

Many of you agree with this:

You're under no obligation to honor your opponent's choice for location.

Lock up the brakes and bail. Now you have a lot of room and you won't get blood all over your interior.

I do as well. Yes, this is a firearms community, but we shouldn't allow ourselves to get too narrow-minded and end up forgetting the often-overlooked option of self-extraction.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Gosh, I just cannot fathom any situation where I would allow myself to have a gunfight inside a car with a drunk guy. Talking my way out of it, redirecting his conversation, stalling for time, slamming the brakes, whatever it would take to stop the car and get out would be my overwhelming priority. Even if he's slugging me from one side I would take a little punishment and get out of the car. Get some distance between you and that's when my piece would come out (if then, but probably hopefully not even then). Inside a car is a bad time to draw, there's just too much going on and not enough reaction time.
Bad situation all around but I'm glad the OP ended well with it.

 

[PBR Streetgang]

I had a situation back in my younger days that my passenger made the statement of being in a position to do me physical harm.......I stepped on the gas doing about 80 mph and explained to them,not a problem,,,we're going to hit a telephone pole on your side and at this speed you're gonna be a big splat.....within a couple of seconds I had them screaming I was crazy and they wanted out of the car.....sometimes ya gotta fight crazy with more crazy,,,,,,,,

btw as far as shooting in a vehicle, be careful where the empty brass lands...it plays hell with the defroster fan if if goes down the defroster vents.........please don't ask me how I know!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MedWheeler]

^^ Several years back, a cab driver was in a situation in which two "fares" riding in the back seat were attempting to rob him at gunpoint. The driver accelerated and drove until he came to a "T"-type intersection, across from which was an earthen berm. Just before the planned impact, he bailed from the car. Both would-be robbers were, at the least, seriously injured, far more than was the driver.

 

[zeke4351]

I totally agree. I almost left him, but decided to wait for a while. He wasn't hostile enough when we were loading up to where I would have expected that kind of threat though, just kind of pissy. It wasn't until until we were well out of town where he became aggressive enough to cause me real concern.



While I do often carry a backup pistol in that spot in my personal vehicle, this was a company van and it was actually assigned to and mostly used by the other guy.

I would have remained calm and pulled over. Then I would have got out of the car and one way or the other got the guy out of my car. Wouldn't bother me to leave someone like that on the side of the road. I am sure he would have wound up safely in jail.

 

[Nighthawk0083]

I dont think carrying an extra gun is the answer or changing holsters as you are already familiar with the one you have. Also the likelihood of that happening again are pretty low. If thinks go south in that confined of an area you arent going to have enough time to pull you pistol. Best thing to do it get out where you have the advantage. Although that is going to be hard too.