Shooting still not decided "Creach" WA area

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Harley Quinn

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I notice this one is long in the tooth and no verdict prior to Elections it has been mentioned...

Will the Spokane County prosecutor bring charges against a sheriff’s deputy for fatally shooting an armed Spokane Valley pastor Aug. 25? Or will Prosecutor Steve Tucker decide the shooting of Wayne Scott Creach by Deputy Brian Hirzel was justified use of deadly force?

Those are key questions pending in one of the most controversial police shootings in Spokane County in years.

Creach made a fatal mistake, as did the person in LV Costco shoot...Failed to follow a lawful order...:confused: No I am not confused IMHO...

http://www.spokesman.com/topics/creach-shooting/
 
One has not been decided as of yet, we have discussed this quite a bit at .us...Opinions are fine...LEO have a right to shoot, I have a feeling both families will continue on for some time and that is their right...

That is their right in our society, why lawyers are so plentiful...Murder has no statute of limitations, I know you consider this one a murder, but imho it is a killing and a very sad situation, but when one carries a gun and will not drop it like told to do so by LEO they will get shot as a rule...

Both the LV and this shooting, are very similar, more and more of these can happen, the more others feel they have the right to not obey...Price one pays it seems...My thoughts anyway...

Regards
 
Pardon me for kicking the beehive, but...

Let's try to avoid the cop bashing. Every cop (or any citizen, as a matter of fact!) is innocent until proven guilty. Not everyone who wears a badge is evil, and out to get you.

99.9% of the people putting in opinions on this read it in a newspaper or on the internet... just remember that.
 
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Let's try to avoid the cop bashing. Every cop (or any citizen, as a matter of fact!) is innocent until proven guilty. Not everyone who wears a badge is evil, and out to get you.
Not bashing here, but stating opinion based solely upon these two specific instances. My statement above indicated such.

I referenced two specific instances, and you assumed a blanket application to the profession as a whole.

Your observations of my statement are a incorrect and unappreciated.

JAmie
 
Moderator comment: O.k. We've had the obligatory "cop bashing" argument. Now drop it or we'll have to close the thread.
 
Here in Idaho there is a law that requires law enforcement vehicles to be MARKED. If someone in an unmarked car comes on my property and shines a spotlight in my face so that I cannot see him and tells me to drop my gun I am going to be a little concerned that the car doesn't look like a cop car. This situation may have been avoided if the governments in WA treated their people as citizens instead of subjects. The only purpose behind an unmarked patrol vehicle is to generate revenue. It does not protect the public.

What would you think if you were in that situation?
 
longdayjake,

Good point about the light in the face etc...Unmarked are used for many reasons...

To and from court, not in service to be a patrol veh...

But mainly for patroling and not standing out with all the lights and sirens etc. exposed to alert all to the fact police are in the area and looking for criminals and checking establisments for problems...

They are a good tool in cities with high crime rates IMHO

Regards
 
I think this situation stinks of something awful.

Not to be cop bashing but if someone comes onto my property at night then I have every right to check it out, with insurance if necessary, and not get shot by someone with a little adrenaline rush.

Sounds like to me there was some miscommunication initially and then things sort of escalated from there. I'm not criticizing cops in general, but I think this one fouled up big time along with his department.
 
There has to be more to LEO and marked cars, I have read in Highway traffic supervision it might be that way, but they have police cars that don't have the lights sirens etc, up on top, but are marked...

Many who feel insecure about pulling over to an unmarked car should not pull over imho, until a marked one demands it, or go to a service station or convience store parking lot that is clearly lit at night and plenty of people around...

It is about awareness and many departments now are against plainvehicles trying to stop for a minor traffic violation, marked units are called to assist as a rule...

I would have to say regarding plain unmarked vehicles, that is for active enforcement, and not, narcotics and vice units, or gang units, that need to be in plainclothes to meld in and make arrests...
 
I wonder if the Officer even identified himself as being a Policeman? Or just started in with the yelling instantly, soon as he say Mr. Creach approaching and armed?


Fatal situations where the perp is the only wittness, are inherantly less than ideal for the best recounting sometimes.


I had a situation about fifteen years ago, where on my own property, an un-marked car, plain clothes LEO of some sort, he comes to a four-wheel-drift skidding stop, opens the door, is behind his door for cover, aiming ( appeared hysterical and very unsteady ) some large automatic at me, and screaming and cursing for me to get on the ground.


He did not bother identifying himself, and the situation occured middle of the day on a Sunday.


It all worked out okay, but left me with a better understanding of how things might not.

He could have shot me and then said whatever accounting or story he liked.


I was not armed.


When all was said and done, and I having been comliant and easy-going about it all, I asked him what it had been about, and he mumbled something about an annonomous tip about someone removing property from this location.

I then asked, "What address was your 'tip' indicating, do you have it written down, or, do you remember?"

He looked at me in a sneer, and left.

He was no kid, and appeared to be in his 40s.

So, I have no idea what it had been about, I had simply been changing the Oil on my Truck...old Industrial district, at my Business, in my own Parking Lot, courtyard.
 
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pretending a sentient human couldn't tell that was a cop car is disingenuous at best. the cop being in uniform only makes it more so
it does make me speculate
did the preacher wear glasses?was he wearing them that night?
 
cassandrasdaddy said:
pretending a sentient human couldn't tell that was a cop car is disingenuous at best. the cop being in uniform only makes it more so
it does make me speculate
did the preacher wear glasses?was he wearing them that night?

Just curious, but what color are the officers' uniforms out there? Around here and every city I've ever lived in, the local police tend to be uniformed in either a DARK navy blue, or black. At night, with a flashlight in your face it's impossible to see the officer at all, let alone identify him as an officer. If he doesn't vocally identify himself you have no way of knowing. Why do you think so many of us take a weapon light (or a flashlight) with us when we check those bumps in the night? Because a flashlight in a dark situation can blind and disorient an intruder... Just because the preacher was a good guy doesn't mean he's immune to a flashlight in the face. The idiot cop is lucky to be alive. Charges SHOULD be filed, and he SHOULD ride a desk for the rest of his career, if not lose the job entirely.

Just my opinion. If you're gonna try and make the preacher look stupid, consider ALL of the circumstances before depositing your proverbial foot in your mouth. Unless the cops out there wear white or another pretty light color, they'll be quite well hidden in the dark at night, especially with their flashlight in the target's face. A frightened older man who's being lit up by a flashlight and told to drop his gun is much less likely to drop that gun if he thinks the person spotlighting him is a threat and has no business being there. This also leads me to believe that the officer never vocally identified himself.

It wouldn't shock me if the cop is lying and the department is covering it up, but we probably will never know the truth. That's why I keep cameras and motion lights monitoring my home's exterior.
 
If an LEO ever pointed a gun at me and said, "DROP THE GUN", you can bet yer bippy I'd drop the gun mo-skosh-qwik. Over the years I've heard of quite a lot of peope who got shot for not doing so.
 
Regarding night time, glasses and abiltiy for older folks to see very good is a good point imho...Plus the hearing imparement as you age...I wear hearing aid and eye glass... Without them, I'd be in a real bad situation to see or hear:uhoh:

It will all come out, and be told soon, I have a feeling, no cover up IMHO...
 
from an earlier article

Pastor Wayne Scott Creach not only routinely carried his .45-caliber pistol on his property, he was known by police to hold theft suspects at gunpoint until officers could arrive and once apprehended a fleeing man several blocks away by threatening to “blow his head off.”

Those incidents were among the 21 contacts Spokane County Sheriff’s Office deputies had with Creach or his business, the Plant Farm, over the past five years, according to records obtained by The Spokesman-Review.

<<<Excessive quoting removed.>>>
 
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That article (while I'm aware that the media will put whatever spin on the facts it has, that pays the most) really makes it look even more like the police department rubbing out a thorn in their side (ie an armed citizen willing to stand up for himself and refusing to be a victim) and covering it up. Very sad and my condolences go out to his family.
 
Well even if he was in uniform, you have to remember that this happened at night.
I'd have a hard time telling colors, much less friend or foe, if it was dark and I had a flashlight right in my eyes.
 
Interesting side note that has not been mentioned...Here...
Does it matter, yes I think it could...
“He told us his wife runs it. If his wife runs it, I can’t control what a spouse does,” Knezovich said, adding that an anonymous tipster advised the Sheriff’s Office on Friday of Hirzel’s connection to the sex toys company. “If he was part of it, there will be some kind of disciplinary action. The discipline will be determined by the facts of the matter.”


http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/14/agency-looks-at-deputys-role-in-online-sex-toy/
 
the articles say he was working on "paperwork" in car when Creach appoached. when cop got out he would be lit up . i saw a picture of the preacher wearing glasses would wonder if he had them on when he went out.

there was an article that showed the cop car on a flatbed typical plain brown wrapper with spotlight and anntenae
 
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I would have to say regarding plain unmarked vehicles, that is for active enforcement, and not, narcotics and vice units, or gang units, that need to be in plainclothes to meld in and make arrests...

It is one thing to do an undercover operation. A totally different thing to be pulling people over or patrolling a neighborhood for crime. I guess I should have been clearer on what the law is for LEO vehicles in Idaho. Patrol cars must be marked. Detective, and undercover cars do not.

If anyone thinks that WA law enforcement isn't all about revenue generation you should look at the cost difference for various tickets compared to Idaho.

Things that are illegal in Idaho for patrol cops to do.

1. Traffic light cameras.
2. Stop sign cameras.
3. Pull someone over in an unmarked car.
 
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