Shooting Video Games?

[Gryffydd]

As soon as they don't have firearms in them they won't be firearms related. They don't have to be accurate to be related. The things said by the brady bunch aren't accurate either, but that doesn't make them not relate to firearms.

 

[Schofield3]

Can anyone tell me how video/computer games discussions are firearms related

Could be used to improve firearms recognition and expand knowledge of the vast varieties of firearms that are out there

 

[Gryffydd]

They are not firearms related.

See my previous post.

They do nothing to further the RKBA.

One could make the argument that they expose a lot of young people to firearms and at least have the potential of planting a seed that could grow into responsible firearms ownership.

 

[Schofield3]

They are not firearms related.
They do nothing to further the RKBA.
They do nothing to provide users with the responsibility of firearms ownership.
They do nothing to enhance the skills with actual firearms.

They are fantasy worlds with fictional consequences.

Well! someone sure hasn't played COD4

 

[CoRoMo]

Fictional depiction of firearms use is as much of a relation as you can argue.

Don't get me wrong. I never said I hate them, nor do I abstain from them, in fact I greatly enjoy them, but I'm not going to kid myself about the "reality" they render.

 

[Maelstrom]

There have been studies done by Col. Dave Grossman suggesting that video games have increased the accuracy of mass school shooters.

The army and several police departments also use video games as training aids (under the guise of a "simulator").

First Person Shooters actually stress accurate and useful tactics which translate to the real world (i.e. move-and-shoot, find cover while reloading, only exposing the parts of the body needed to shoot, etc.)

If you try a game such as S.T.A.L.K.E.R. you'll quickly learn that a rifle outpowers a pistol, stay behind cover and wait for your enemy to reload, kneeling is more accurate than standing, stay behind cover and lean out to engage, and don't stand still when you can be moving.

They are fantasy worlds with fictional consequences.

The next time you shoot at a paper target, remember you said this.

 

[Gryffydd]

First Person Shooters actually stress accurate and useful tactics which translate to the real world (i.e. move-and-shoot, find cover while reloading, only exposing the parts of the body needed to shoot, etc.)

Very true, especially if you want to be good at them, and especially when you're talking multiplayer. Playing against the computer doesn't do as much in this regard. Having 20 humans on the other team trying to outsmart you is a whole different world.

And some games come much, much closer to be accurate than others. COD4 is actually pretty good. ROF is accurate, Accuracy is accurate, Recoil is accurate, diminishing power over distance is accurate. The only thing it's missing is bullet drop. But then, at most of the in game distances that wouldn't be a factor anyway.

 

[NoirFan]

My favorite shooting games of all time are probably Max Payne 1 & 2. They are over-the-shoulder shooters with a simple point-and-click combat mechanic. The plot and setting remind me of the movie "Payback", or "Training Day". Basically a revenge-obsessed cop storyline dressed up with extremely hammy - and enjoyable - film noir dialogue.

 

[TheFallGuy]

Nothing wrong with video games at all. Give me Rainbow Six Vegas any day! The worst is Big Buck Hunter at the bars! I have probably spent an AR15's value playing that game in the last year! I want one for my living room!

 

[KBT1911]

Monolith's BLOOD from the late 1990s was the bomb! They made a Blood 2 but it wasn't as cool as the first.

 

[hso]

It's a too much of a stretch to compare a FATS training system with some FPS on a Wi. Having done both as well as having trained FOF with simunitions (where mistakes HURT) there's not much that I see in common between real training (simunition, airsoft and real simulator training) and these games.

As to getting people interested in RKBA, the gross inaccuracies of weapons depictions on most of them and the presentation of firearms use and gunfighting makes me think the opposite.

 

[Shung]

you should try ARMA or FPS like Americas Army or even Insurgency. And those aren't playied on Wii... but on PC, with some Track IR devices etc..

In all those FPS, they are no gross innacuracies of weapon depictions as you call them..

I am not saying it's like IRL, but it can teach you a lot of tactical values.

You are right about something.. We should make a USB vest that would actually HURT you with an electrical discharge when you are hit.. This would make multiplayer games much more interesting, and more realistic.. When you "fear" pain, the whole picture about combat changes..

 

[Gryffydd]

It's a too much of a stretch to compare a FATS training system with some FPS on a Wi.

Well that's for sure. The Wii sucks in just about every way. We're talking about PC/PS3/Xbox360 games COD4 actually has real life accessories (Aimpoint, EOTech, ACOGs etc), and all real guns which look, shoot, and reload in a very accurate way. The worst thing about the game is that supersonic rounds when shot through a suppressor are quieter than they would be in real life.

As to getting people interested in RKBA, the gross inaccuracies of weapons depictions on most of them and the presentation of firearms use and gunfighting makes me think the opposite.

I know of younger people who would have otherwise had no interest in firearms purchasing the guns they played with in real life. One kid (Well, 18ish) I used to know bought an M1 Garand from the CMP after playing a ton of Medal of Honor and COD:UO (WWII games).

 

[Boba Fett]

While I think that FPS games are a lot of fun and expose people to various firearms (some they would likely not know of otherwise), they are terribly inaccurate in so many ways.

My favorite inaccuracy is in Counter Strike: they have an AR-15 that you load a round by pulling on the forward assist instead of the charging handle

I do think FPS games make kids and/or mall ninjas think they know everything about firearms. In reality, their knowledge, beyond perhaps the names and general appearance of the firearms, is severely skewed to incorrect assumptions about how firearms operate in reality.

 

[Shung]

of course, they are FPS and FPS.. clearly, counter strike does not belong to the "realistic" ones..

As I said, if you look for realism in FPS, look for ARMA, America's Army, or Insurgency..

they are much more realistic than COD4.. COD4 has some part of realism, but lots of BS too.. (like no selectors, no ballistic drop, no wind effect etc etc)-

As for Combat flight simulators.. Don't go for Novalogic series or whatever.. Latest version of Falcon4 (Open Falcon 4.2) are VERY VERY realistic, for example.

 

[thorazine]

Call of Duty 4 is great online.

Call of Duty 5 is also great online.

They aren't bad in hardcore game play mode only.


Otherwise (non hardcore)...

I would love to meet the person that can absorb six to eight hits from an M14...

Their health regenerates in seconds...

Then they kill you with a single shot from their M9 pistol -- over a hundred yards away.

 

[GRAYRID3R]

My 12 year old Grandson can identify all of my mil surplus weapons, their ammo capacity, the .cal, apx range, and firing rate due to COD 4 and COD WAW. His interest got me playing with him online as well. I have a 1918 A3 BAR, an M1 Garand, an M1 carbine, a Thompson, An m27 Mosin, an M1A, a Colt 1911 and a C96 Broomhandle. He has played them all in fantasy land on the PC except the C96. He has helped clean and field strip them all. (along with my other non mil weapons)

 

[Gryffydd]

(like no selectors, no ballistic drop, no wind effect etc etc)-

But then again, 90% of the time you're not shooting far enough for the latter two to make a difference anyway. I don't see the lack of selectors as that terrible of an omission.

 

[Shung]

But then again, 90% of the time you're not shooting far enough for the latter two to make a difference anyway

Still make 10% of the game boring (sniping and co..)

don't see the lack of selectors as that terrible of an omission.

I do, It was so simple to implement anyway.. I dont get it why they didnt.

I am not saying COD4 is a bad game. i like it actually. But it's far from being the most realistic out there.

 

[Foofles]

I figure games with firearms are about as relevant as movies with them.. *Shrug*

Some games are pretty cool when it comes to the guns and the RKBA. Some interesting lines:

Deus Ex for the PC: (In a rundown hotel, the owner asks the player for a gun for protection. The player has the choice to answer -) "I'm sorry, civilians aren't allowed to own firearms." "Tell that to the gangsters."

"Bravery is not a function of firepower."

Grand Theft Auto 4: "The new mayor has a real hardon for gun control" , "I don't know, I've seen plenty of guns since I've got here..."

ETc.

Since we've moved on to more modern games, how about the plethora of games that let you modify your weapons?

I doubt the vast majority of shooting games has any weight when it comes to real life shooting scenarios, however the same can apply to other fiction as well.

 

[Phydeaux642]

They do nothing to further the RKBA.
They do nothing to provide users with the responsibility of firearms ownership.
They do nothing to enhance the skills with actual firearms.

They are fantasy worlds with fictional consequences.

Did you ever watch a movie?

Sometimes discussions here can suck the fun out of everything.

I haven't played many xbox games, but the closest to using "real" firearms is a game called "Black". It's a first person shooter and I liked it. These types of games are great for hand/eye coordination.

 

[Gryffydd]

I do, It was so simple to implement anyway.. I dont get it why they didnt.

Probably because it's still easy to fire one shot if you want just by clicking the mouse button once. (The exception being the M16 which is stuck at 3rd bursts).
The M14/G3 were made Semi-Auto for balance reasons...though IRL they aren't the greatest weapons to use full auto either.

As a side note, I use a programmable keyboard for my non-mouse hand. I can program a key to rapid fire the semi-auto guns. It'll empty the desert eagle in less than a second. Totally useless, but it looks hilarious.The M14 is impossible to hit anything with due to the recoil, and the G3 is out of ammo in nothing flat.

I am not saying COD4 is a bad game. i like it actually. But it's far from being the most realistic out there.

True, but it finds a nice balance between fun and realism. Playing AA had having to listen to simulated fellow soldiers talk about how awesome the PX is, and what movie they're going to go watch at the on base cinema, and how awesome the military discounts are for 30 minutes is in a whole different category. Yes, it's fun. But it's a different kind of fun.

 

[Aw4g63]

Folks,

Can anyone tell me how video/computer games discussions are firearms related (beyond their inherent inaccuracies depicting firearms and shooting)?

They are not firearms related.
They do nothing to further the RKBA.
They do nothing to provide users with the responsibility of firearms ownership.
They do nothing to enhance the skills with actual firearms.

They are fantasy worlds with fictional consequences.

When I first started typing this thread up I contemplated this question. As a 28 year old male, I grew up playing games with guns. Honestly, without that I would have never have been exposed to guns aside from GI Joes.

The game I posted about is actually sponsored by a gun manufacture and depicts game play just like many shooting competitions. The exposure of guns in that format greatly helps people see that killing zombies and playing mindless plot games isn't the only purpose of guns.

With that said, before you knock the realism go play modern games like Call of Duty 4 or Call of Duty World at War. The historic details are very good, the weapons are fundamentally identical and everything down to breathing takes place. There's a a sniping mission where i know for a fact that wind and drop need to be calculated in Call of Duty World at War.


That's pretty gun related to me. Besids a lot of us will never have a chance to shoot an guns like the following:

Thompson M1A1
* M1A1 Carbine
* M1 Garand
* Trench Shotgun
* Browning Automatic Rifle (B.A.R)
* Springfield M1903
* Springfield M1903: Scoped
* M2 flamethrower
* M1911 (aka Colt 45)
* Bajonet
* M9 Bazooka
* M1919A6 Browning
* M2 machinegun

Russian Weapons:

* TT-33
* Mosin Nagant
* Mosin Nagant Scoped
* PPSH (71 round Drum Magazine)
* PPSH (31 round Banana Magazine)
* Bajonet

German Weapons:

* P08 Luger
* Kar98
* Kar98 scoped
* MP44
* MP40
* MG42
* MG34
* Messer

Explosives:

* RGD-33
* MK2 Frag Grenade
* Smoke Grenade
* Satchel Charges
* Mines

 

[Boba Fett]

Honestly, without that I would have never have been exposed to guns aside from GI Joes.

YOOOO JOE!!



Ahhh...nothing like growing up with great action figures, graduating to FPS on PC games, and then to the real thing.

Of course, my dad took me to the range at a young age, so I had a nice amount of exposure to the real thing...maybe that is what made the action figures and games more fun.

 

[Aw4g63]

See, I never did. Movies, games and things of the sort were the only things that got me into guns. Funny enough, I never want to hurt anyone or anything with a gun. I just really enjoy the range. Go figure!