Shopping for an AR and Pistol help

[trinitynzxt]

So my buddies go to the range a lot and I'd like to start going with them. I've never shot a gun before and don't know much other than I would like to get an AR. After I get the rifle I'll be enrolling in an AR training class and pistol training class at my local gun range so I know what I'm doing (safety, range etiquette, gun maintenance ect). But I currently have no idea which AR15 is best for someone like me. I've read a lot of people saying they like the M&P15 Sport II which is around $730, any suggestions if this would be an adequate rifle for just going to the range twice a month, or is it overkill. Cheaper is better, and ideally I would like to be closer to $500 than $700 but I don't want to sacrifice accuracy I just don't need all the bells and whistles.

I was also looking at the Sig Sauer P320 as the pistol I might end up getting. My buddy just bought one and he says he likes it. Although it looks like it kicks like a mule from the videos I've seen online. At the price of $580 is there anything maybe a bit less expensive that works for the range, concealment, and home protection.

Thanks much.

 

[Ks5shooter]

Something in a Smith and Wesson 5906 would fit your bill. You can get them around 400 bucks.They are heavier than polymer frame guns such as the 320,and that will help with recoil concerns. They are built like tanks.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/614997790

 

[z7]

Sign up for Palmetto State Armory's email or just visit their page frequently. They often run some really good deals on 2 gun combinations, rifle and pistol but it is an online purchase so you have to ship it to your local dealer for final transfer. A little clunky fora first purchase.

For a rifle only, most off the shelf rifles will meet your needs. I would go to whatever shop has the most rifles on the shelf and pick up as many different models as possible so you can see what feels good in your hands.

For handguns, i am a huge glock fan. A glock 19 will get you everything you need and the bore is very low compared to a sig so the recoil generates less muzzle flip in theory. A 9mm wont kick much anyway and is all you need for practice and home defense. Try to shoot a few models before you buy as well. It is very interesting to see how a new shooter responds to different handguns in the same caliber.

 

[AZAndy]

It's really hard to recommend a handgun to somebody who doesn't have one. Is there a range near you that offers rentals? That would be a good way to discover what you like and don't like.

 

[hdwhit]

Any of the entry-level ARs from S&W, Ruger, etc. will be adequate and accurate for years to come. As the panic buying that preceded the election has abated, prices have come down with some mail order places offering the S&W M&P-15 for less than $500 (although you would have to find a local FFL and pay them a fee to process the paperwork).

Also, to go on the record with respect to pistols, I am one of those that is a huge fan of anything BUT Glock. You will find strong emotions amongst pistol owners and you don't know any of us on this board to know whether or not to trust our opinions. I suggest you ask the friends you intend to shoot with their opinions and why they feel the way they do.

 

[redneck2]

Pistol....I worked at a gun shop years ago. Guys would take someone else's advice, then end up disliking their purchase. If at all possible at least handle them first. Much better if you can shoot some. We had used ones that you could try free

AR.. there are dozens of good ones

 

[earplug]

Go shoot a AR before you decide to buy one. You might get your input from your friends guns. Lots of barrel length and buttstock options and you might as well try before you buy one. Getting a cheap new gun is not the way to save money. Figure out what you want your tool to accomplish first. Many good deals on used rifles that have been upgraded.

 

[MachIVshooter]

With no experience, you can't really tell us what you want or don't want in either firearm, so that leaves the field wide open, making it both easier and more difficult to deliver recommendations.

On the AR, I would say you'll probably be best suited with a 16" carbine of some flavor. Other than that, go with one that you find visually and economically appealing. Lots of options in the $500-$800 range these days, from bare bones stuff to those with nicer Magpul furniture and free float handguards. I just got a friend of mine (new to AR as well) into a really nice mid length with Magpul MOE stock and grip and a free float keymod handguard for $580, but we did have to assemble it.

That said, consider something like this:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-ctr-edition-black-no-magazine.html

Plus this:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...elonite-13-keymod-freedom-upper-w-bcg-ch.html

You'd be into your rifle for $570 + shipping (~$30) and FFL transfer fee (?, $20-50 is common). Then just add magazines ($7-$12 each) and sights of your choice, from inexpensive flip ups to red dots or scopes. "Assembly" with complete lowers and uppers is merely a matter of inserting the take down pins, and you'll get a lot more for your money that way. You'd spend another $250 upgrading something like the M&P Sport with the Magpul bits and decent free float handguards.

Why am I recommending a new shooter start with something a little nicer than the most stripped down carbine available? Because it'll make your experience more pleasant, and almost certainly save you money in the long run, as virtually everyone winds up swapping out crappy A2 and M4 plastics for nicer furniture eventually.

For a handgun, I think a full size or semi compact service type 9mm pistol is a great starter. S&W M&P 9, Glock 17 or 19, CZ-75, etc. Just handle a bunch of them and see what fits you. Expect to spend at least $350 on a decent centerfire pistol.

 

[tarosean]

Find a range that rents guns in your area, the money spent will help you decide.
Asking a forum, is akin to asking people what their favorite color is. Lots of answers, but they are specific to individuals personal taste and that don't particularly help you at all...

 

[AZAndy]

Find a range that rents guns in your area, the money spent will help you decide.
Asking a forum, is akin to asking people what their favorite color is. Lots of answers, but they are specific to individuals personal taste and that don't particularly help you at all...

What, there are people who don't like mauve? Well, they're just wrong, that's all.

 

[MistWolf]

Trinity, take a real close look at the Colt 6920 and 6720. They are a little more than what you'd like to spend, but are worth it. Colt has got all the details right, such as gas port diameter, spring rates, spring durability and buffer weight, making them an excellent choice for a beginner shooter.

I have owned PSA and really liked what I had, but it needed some fine tuning. To me, the Colt 6920 shot smoother right out of the box and it's recoil was easier to control. I've also shot Colt short barreled rifles in full auto as well as semi auto and Colt 20 inch ARs. Colt has their ARs dialed in.

As for pistols, take a look at the Glock 19 or 17, the HK VP9 and the Walther PPQ. All are 9mm and are good shooting reliable handguns. They are all good choices for a beginner shooter because they are ready to go right out of the box. I've shot all of these handguns, but the one I personally like the best is the PPQ. However, only you can decide which handgun is right for you, so go to a range and rent handguns until you find what you like.

Set your BS meter on high and be careful as to whose advice you follow. There are a lot of gun shop commandos who mean well, but will lead you far astray with bad information. Have fun while figuring out what you want and need

 

[MachIVshooter]

Colt has got all the details right, such as gas port diameter, spring rates, spring durability and buffer weight, making them an excellent choice for a beginner shooter.

I have owned PSA and really liked what I had, but it needed some fine tuning. To me, the Colt 6920 shot smoother right out of the box and it's recoil was easier to control. I've also shot Colt short barreled rifles in full auto as well as semi auto and Colt 20 inch ARs. Colt has their ARs dialed in.

Respectfully, that's a load of Colt loyalty and biased anecdotal experience. 20 years ago, Colt had an edge. Today, they are lagging. They finally came out with a mid length rifle, which Armalite pioneered in the 1990s and which took them a decade longer than everyone else to figure out was better suited to title I 16" tubes. As they've done in years passed, Colt rides on their name until falling sales finally force them to catch up with the competition. We saw it with the 1911, we saw it with double action revolvers, and we've now witnessed it with the AR. Yes, Colt makes quality stuff, but they are never the tip of the spear in development, or the best value.

Do you hear more negatives about PSA stuff than Colt? Of course. For one, people are quicker to bash newer brands, especially when they have a budget line and/or experience teething issues. More importantly, though, I'd wager there are probably better than a dozen PSA rifles and times 3 PSA uppers on various lowers out there for every Colt AR in private hands. Law of averages and all.

I have built dozens of ARs, 5.56, .300 blk, .308 and 9mm, partially or completely with PSA stuff, and the only issues I've ever seen were small parts left out of build kits, which they remedied. Additionally, their stainless barrels have proved among the most accurate non-match grade barrels I've had experience with.

PSA offers everything from the low buck PTAC line (which work, just "unrefined") to top tier stuff with premium barrels from FN and other big name bits. Far and away the most expansive product line out there, and covers the needs/wants of all buyers except the most (financially) elite, most of whom have far more money than sense or skill, IME.

Set your BS meter on high and be careful as to whose advice you follow. There are a lot of gun shop commandos who mean well, but will lead you far astray with bad information. Have fun while figuring out what you want and need

This I agree with in spades.

 

[md7]

OP,

You're going to get a lot of different responses. It'll be up to you to weigh your options, do your research, and arrive at a choice that best suits your needs, interests, etc..

Personally, I'd get a Colt 6720/6920 for a carbine. I like BCM too, but that may be getting out of range regarding budget.

Id select a Glock 17/19, HK VP9, or Walther PPQ for handgun. I'd also be ok with an M&P 9mm. Again, that's just me.

There's my 2 cents. And probably worth even less than what you paid for it.

Regardless of what you get.......Buy good magazines, lots of ammo, and use them! Not only will you gain proficiency over time, it's a ton of fun

 

[red rick]

Whittaker's has the M&P Sport II for $499 right now and I would look at the CZ P-09 pistol , Bud's $469 or Walther PPQ M2 $541 , it has the best striker fire trigger out there and is very accurate .

 

[Ruger 15151]

+1 on the M&P Sport II

I own several ARs, some were built from Palmetto State Armory components and others from very high-end manufactures.

The M&P Sport I was my first AR and it is what I still recommend to my friends that are looking to purchase their first AR. The M&P Sport II is a fantastic basic platform with the same barrel (one of the most important components on any riffle) that is included with their higher end ARs. Although the M&P Sport II comes with Milspec furniture and basic flip-up Magpul sights, they are all you need to enjoy your AR "as-is" for years to come. However, you will hear guys says that ARs are the "Barbies" of guns. That means that you can easily customize and upgrade any of their components with about a million aftermarket parts that are very easy to install without being a gunsmith. Just take a look and the thousands of AR videos on Youtube.

My decision to buy the M&P Sport for my first AR was based on the fact that at the time I knew very little about ARs. I Knew I wasn't ready to build one but wanted a good platform from a reputable manufacturer that was built with solid components. Additionally, I didn't want to pay extra for higher end furniture, sights, triggers, etc... because I knew that I might want to change these later so it would just be money that I wasted.

Regarding companies like Palmetto State Armory, you can buy their build components (and I have as well) for a really great price. You can build a complete AR15 from one of their complete lower and upper kits very easily for less than $500. Although it will function well and probably out shoot your abilities for several years, the fit and finish will not be quite the same as Smith & Wesson, Daniel Defense, IRWC, etc. Its like shooting factory ammunition vs. hand loads that are customized for your riffle. They both will go bang, one just performs a little better. It really just depends what you are looking for initially and if you are the type that will like to upgrade it once you become more familiar with your riffle.

Youll likely get many oppinion. Just thought I would share my $.02.

Good Shooting!

 

[md7]

Walther PPQ M2 $541 , it has the best striker fire trigger out there and is very accurate .

Agree. The PPQ has a pretty nice trigger. Great ergonomics also, at least in my opinion.

 

[NWcityguy2]

For several "which AR do I buy?" threads I have asked the people who recommend spending more for a Colt, what specifically they are doing with their Colts that I am not doing with an AR that costs less. There are never any answers. I'm not saying Colts aren't good, or that people aren't happy with them, just asking what they do special in the actual hands of the people recommending them.

I recommend PSA, as always, but the S&W Sport is certainly a good option. For the amount of them out there, very few problems are reported.

For handguns, I'd highly recommend a 9mm, no matter what make and model you choose. Both people I know that have shot the P320 extensively (20k+ rounds) have had extraction problems. They both shoot reloads and both now run those through a Lee Factory Crimp Die as insurance. One of them had his pistol display problems for the first time at USPSA Production Nationals, and conveniently someone from the Sig sponsored team had the exact parts need to get the gun back up and running. However, I know some other people who shoot the same gun on a much smaller scale and they have no problems with it. I personally prefer CZ over Sig, but would recommend a wide variety of guns that are popular among competitors, such as Glock, S&W, Springfield and FN.

 

[readyeddy]

Get the PSA upper and lower that MachIVshooter is recommending. But you need to move fast because the sales dont last long.

 

[MistWolf]

Respectfully, that's a load of Colt loyalty and biased anecdotal experience

With all due respect, your counter arguments are no better qualified.

Yes, I'm a fan of the Colt AR. All of the Colt ARs I've shot ran like the proverbial sewing machine. I'm also a fan of PSA ARs. If you know how to pick good components and troubleshoot an AR, the PSA offers a great value for the dollar. But I would not recommend a PSA for a beginner shooter who knows nothing about feed ramps, gas ports, springs or buffers.

My PSA AR had a 16 inch stainless steel government profile barrel with a 1:8 twist and a 223 Wylde chamber which I was told was made by Wilson. It was a good barrel and stood up to several thousand rounds of hard shooting. I never checked the gas port diameter but after experimenting with different buffers, I have reason to believe the port diameter was correct.

I had to send the upper back to PSA because of mismatched feed ramps. PSA took care of it promptly and cheerfully and got it right the on the first go.

The extractor started fading early. The rifle is on it's third extractor spring. I have another AR that is also on it's third extractor spring. The first two were generic brand springs. A buddy has a high round count 6920 that his kids abuse with mag dumps and it's still on it's original extractor spring. It's extractor spring will fail eventually, but so far, it's gone the distance and then some. All my ARs now have Colt extractor springs.

The PSA came with a carbine buffer which is too light. It was replaced with an H buffer. Still and all, after all the work I did to get the PSA with it's 16 inch barrel and mid length gas system, the Colt 6920 ran smoother and with less muzzle rise with it's 16 inch barrel and the dreaded carbine length gas system.

I still like the PSA. I passed mine on to a young family member who plans to join the United States Marine Corp when he graduates High School and plan to get a couple PSA kits for my sons. But the Colt simply shoots better.

Call it anecdotal if you want. Call it fanboi-ism. But the more I shoot ARs of different types and brands, the more the Colt stands out. Because it works so well right out of the box, no need to worry about springs or over gassing or a buffer that's too light and better over all quality control, the Colt is a better choice for the beginner than PSA, S&W, Bushmaster or other similar ARs

 

[Varminterror]

It's really hard to recommend a handgun to somebody who doesn't have one.

Not to be contradictory, but after being inundated by re-post after re-post of the facebook story of the Army selecting the P320 over the G19, this comment struck me... Pretty much all LE Depts and military branches "recommend," or even require a specific handgun or set of handguns for their users, and those they're forced upon do just fine.

If you're looking for an AR and a pistol together, and planning on training courses, I would assume you're looking for a combat pistol, not a concealed carry pistol. That puts you in the realm of full size or mid-size Glock 17, 19, 21, 22, or 23, Sig P220, 225, 226, 227, 229, 250, 320, or 2022, S&W M&P & Shield, Ruger American (wouldn't go there), maybe even competition models like the Glock 34, 35, 41, M&P Pro's, X-Five or X-Six's. Hammer fired DA/SA (like most of the Sig's) and hammer fired SAO models tend to fall a back seat in most games these days, but a 1911 or 2011 can sometimes play in the right context by the right shooters. Just depends on the type of shooting you really want to do, and what you want to spend.

For a budget AR, flip a coin or roll a die between Ruger AR-556, S&W M&P Sport II, DPMS, PSA, Rock River, and a dozen others. You SHOULD be able to find a serviceable model down around $400-500. Won't be great, but won't be bad, and for a newbie, you won't likely notice the difference if all you're doing is blasting with some buddies.

 

[MachIVshooter]

With all due respect, your counter arguments are no better qualified.

Qualified is subjective, but I did quantify it.

Like I said, Colt makes a quality product. I own Colt firearms, and though I don't currently own a Colt AR, I've never had a problem with them. But I recognize that they don't offer the best value in their price range. When I was buying my first AR, Colt was in the running, but I opted for an Armalite M15A2C at the same price point. Your buddy's 6920 that hasn't needed extractor work? That isn't unique to Colt. My Armalite has over 20K rounds through it, have never replaced any parts. Only upgraded furniture. I don't know that the thing has ever had a failure that wasn't attributable to magazine, either. It even ate a lousy batch of Tula that choked my BCM 12.5".

Having said that, the chrome lined 4150 barrel of the Armalite isn't capable of the same accuracy as the stainless barrels on my PSA rifles. It's not bad, and is about the same as other CL carbines I've owned and used, including Colts. That is, 1.5-2 MOA on average. The PSA stainless tubes are 1-1/4 MOA, sometimes better. That assessment is not based on just one or two, either; I currently have 5 rifles with stainless PSA barrels, have sold a couple others.

the more I shoot ARs of different types and brands, the more the Colt stands out. Because it works so well right out of the box, no need to worry about springs or over gassing or a buffer that's too light and better over all quality control, the Colt is a better choice for the beginner than PSA, S&W, Bushmaster or other similar ARs

Years ago I would have agreed with you, but really, how many issues do we see with other lines these days, including budget guns? Of all the rifles I've bought and built over the last decade, the only one that gave me trouble was a SODA arms .300 blk upper, which had a weak extractor spring and a sloppy gas block that leaked. I've used assemblies and components from PSA, DSA, Colt, Armalite, JSE, DPMS, Del-Ton, Wilson Arms, WMD, Bulldog, AIM, Model 1, BCM, Aero Precision, Ares, Rguns, Tactical Machining and many others. They've all been fine, the rifles all run great. The days of crappy budget ARs like Hess seem to be over, $500 ARs being just fine in 2017.

No, you won't go wrong with a Colt. But you can get more for your money if you skip the prancing pony.

 

[MistWolf]

I stand by what I said. Trinity, look into the Colt 6920 and 6720 carbines. They don't have as many features as some other ARs in their price range, but are more likely to give you trouble free performance right out of the box. Just make sure you clean off all the preservative before shooting

 

[tarosean]

Hammer fired DA/SA (like most of the Sig's) and hammer fired SAO models tend to fall a back seat in most games these days, but a 1911 or 2011 can sometimes play in the right context by the right shooters.

Huh? you really couldn't be further from the truth.
DA/SA guns have dominated the competition games for years...i.e. 2016 Production Nations CZ/Tanfo accounted for 48% of the guns total, with vast majority the top ten finishers shooting DA/SA including the winner.
2011's reign supreme in the classes they are allowed in.

 

[Averageman]

Trinity, take a real close look at the Colt 6920 and 6720. They are a little more than what you'd like to spend, but are worth it. Colt has got all the details right, such as gas port diameter, spring rates, spring durability and buffer weight, making them an excellent choice for a beginner shooter.

I have owned PSA and really liked what I had, but it needed some fine tuning. To me, the Colt 6920 shot smoother right out of the box and it's recoil was easier to control. I've also shot Colt short barreled rifles in full auto as well as semi auto and Colt 20 inch ARs. Colt has their ARs dialed in.

As for pistols, take a look at the Glock 19 or 17, the HK VP9 and the Walther PPQ. All are 9mm and are good shooting reliable handguns. They are all good choices for a beginner shooter because they are ready to go right out of the box. I've shot all of these handguns, but the one I personally like the best is the PPQ. However, only you can decide which handgun is right for you, so go to a range and rent handguns until you find what you like.

Set your BS meter on high and be careful as to whose advice you follow. There are a lot of gun shop commandos who mean well, but will lead you far astray with bad information. Have fun while figuring out what you want and need

This is some sage advice.
Sometimes "Good Enough" and "Great" are separated by a few hundred dollars. That few hundred dollars means much higher quality and reliability.

 

[BSA1]

The Manual of Arms and operation of AR's are all the same. In addition there are lot of high quality ones available. The S&W Sport makes a excellent entry level gun.

However handguns are a totally different story. Double, single and striker fired actions.

A double action revolver (GASP!) in 38/357 magnum make a excellent entry gun. It is easy to learn how to handle and operate properly and safely, is very simple to load and very accurate. In fact a quality revolver is more accurate than a Glock.

Take a firearms class before you buy a handgun. Take advantage of any opportunity you have to shoot different kinds of handguns. The group on the THR all have our personal favorites. Most of us have multiple handguns of different types. Many of us have owned several different kinds of handguns before finding the one we like best. Some of us are still looking for the perfect handgun.