JimStC
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Hopefully some others will add their opinions.
Short sticks
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Owen Sparks
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History always repeats itself.
Ever notice how many of the traditional martial arts weapons are outlandish and exotic looking? This is not because it made them more effective, but because they evolved from common farming implements. When Okinawa became part of Japan the Satsuma samurai clan made it illegal for peasants to own or carry arms. As a result, they were defenseless and developed a fighting system around their traditional farming implements that they could get away with carrying.
As the Constitution has been largely usurped we find ourselves in much the same situation where only the governing class is allowed to possess weapons. We must improvise as the Okinawans and other subjugated people have always done and learn how to adapt non-forbidden items into tools of self-defense.
I posted a while back about carrying a two piece pool cue slung over my shoulder all over down town Memphis. There is no law against carrying a pool cue and no one could prove that I was not on the way to one of the many bars in the area that have pool tables. Of course the thin half was just a prop as was the blue chalk cubes in the side pouch. The weapon is the heavy end. If I ever did have to use it in self-defense it would look better in court than if I had used an Asp.
An Asp is a purpose built weapon that shows premeditation. A pool cue serves another function. If heaven forbid I did get have to use it the cue as a weapon, it would appear that I used it spontaneously without malice of forethought because I just happened to have it in my hand and was on the way to the pool hall when I was attacked. BTW, it stays on the front seat of my car all the time as I am always on the way to the pool hall.
Ever notice how many of the traditional martial arts weapons are outlandish and exotic looking? This is not because it made them more effective, but because they evolved from common farming implements. When Okinawa became part of Japan the Satsuma samurai clan made it illegal for peasants to own or carry arms. As a result, they were defenseless and developed a fighting system around their traditional farming implements that they could get away with carrying.
As the Constitution has been largely usurped we find ourselves in much the same situation where only the governing class is allowed to possess weapons. We must improvise as the Okinawans and other subjugated people have always done and learn how to adapt non-forbidden items into tools of self-defense.
I posted a while back about carrying a two piece pool cue slung over my shoulder all over down town Memphis. There is no law against carrying a pool cue and no one could prove that I was not on the way to one of the many bars in the area that have pool tables. Of course the thin half was just a prop as was the blue chalk cubes in the side pouch. The weapon is the heavy end. If I ever did have to use it in self-defense it would look better in court than if I had used an Asp.
An Asp is a purpose built weapon that shows premeditation. A pool cue serves another function. If heaven forbid I did get have to use it the cue as a weapon, it would appear that I used it spontaneously without malice of forethought because I just happened to have it in my hand and was on the way to the pool hall when I was attacked. BTW, it stays on the front seat of my car all the time as I am always on the way to the pool hall.
An ASP is a convenience compromise for a solid baton. It sacrifices weight and rigidity and strength for the collapsible trait making it compact and easy to carry all the time. It is in all other ways inferior as a defensive tool.
Wood provides all the things an ASP sacrifices, but a solid baton isn't as portable or concealable in most people's day to day activities.
I'm trained to use an ASP and hold an ASP card and I'm trained in escrima. I would pick a stick over a collapsible baton any day of the week if I had a choice in a real self defense situation.
Owen Sparks
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If you get caught with an Asp in many places you could be charged with carrying a concealed weapon. A simple stick is easier to get by with as long as it serves some other purpose.
Carolina Wraith
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Makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the answers.
Steel Talon
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Wise words..... Just for those who carry a baseball bat in their vehicles. It's best to also have some balls and a mitt present too. To provide the correct camoflauge
AStone
Member
I hope to own an ASP someday. Under the proper conditions, I'm sure it's a fine tool.
I want a Monadnock, also. One of these in an 18", please.
But for and EDC dog stick, gimme wood. I'd prefer Osage or Hornbeam, but ash is nice.
I'm using oak currently, mainly because it's available to me in dowel form for use as a prototype.
(I'm "on the road", and have few tools (all simple hand) or a workshop, and money is tight.)
Yes, I understand that oak will splinter if swung against an object too hard.
But that's a little like .38 spl v .45 ACP. IME, it's more about technique. One thing I've learned about sticks (for 50 years): you don't need to hit with the power of a home run to hurt and stop an attack. Hit bone - ulna, radius, sternum, clavicle, ribs ... and it will have an effect.
Stick placement, stick placement, stick placement.
And be quick about it, and flexible.
Don't telegraph where the next strike will go.
High? Low? Arm? Ribs? Knee? Thigh? Neck?
Answer: it depends on what comes my way.
Weapon in a hand? I'll try to break a wrist.
Foot in a kick? I'll try to break an ankle.
Take down attempt? Look out neck, two handed stick coming down ....
I want a Monadnock, also. One of these in an 18", please.
But for and EDC dog stick, gimme wood. I'd prefer Osage or Hornbeam, but ash is nice.
I'm using oak currently, mainly because it's available to me in dowel form for use as a prototype.
(I'm "on the road", and have few tools (all simple hand) or a workshop, and money is tight.)
Yes, I understand that oak will splinter if swung against an object too hard.
But that's a little like .38 spl v .45 ACP. IME, it's more about technique. One thing I've learned about sticks (for 50 years): you don't need to hit with the power of a home run to hurt and stop an attack. Hit bone - ulna, radius, sternum, clavicle, ribs ... and it will have an effect.
Stick placement, stick placement, stick placement.
And be quick about it, and flexible.
Don't telegraph where the next strike will go.
High? Low? Arm? Ribs? Knee? Thigh? Neck?
Answer: it depends on what comes my way.
Weapon in a hand? I'll try to break a wrist.
Foot in a kick? I'll try to break an ankle.
Take down attempt? Look out neck, two handed stick coming down ....
Steel Talon
Member
Since we are discussing the ability/difficulty to conceal short sticks, then I would suggest that you make a simple Yawara from a 6-8 inch length of dowel and incorporate it into your training.
When I was a young man and started my journey into Jujitsu I was fortunate to be taught to use the Yawara in concert. Ultimately in CQB my ideal position is to control opponents movements, transition myself behind opponent, finish,cast him away and exit quickly. So I counter attack with open hands and maintain at least one hand in contact at all times to direct my force application until I cast or get casted.
a Yawara is a simple force multiplier that assists quickly in grabs locks and joint devastation.
Remember as with any Self-defence item the Yawara is limited, and is best used by a trained person. But in the absence of anything it is very powerful force multiplier.
It's a fist load, a jabber, since it protrudes an inch on either side of the closed fist its a devastating hammer striker to the face, orbitals, soft tissues throat pressure points,and a joint striker such as if your daughter was grabbed by the wrist a hammer strike to the wrist and hand bones could quickly force a release.
Of course with my daughters they would turn an attackers face and eyeballs into hamburgar meat sauce until they could make immediate escape. They know how to fight to save themselves and to maime an attacker that would force an ER visit.
When I was a young man and started my journey into Jujitsu I was fortunate to be taught to use the Yawara in concert. Ultimately in CQB my ideal position is to control opponents movements, transition myself behind opponent, finish,cast him away and exit quickly. So I counter attack with open hands and maintain at least one hand in contact at all times to direct my force application until I cast or get casted.
a Yawara is a simple force multiplier that assists quickly in grabs locks and joint devastation.
Remember as with any Self-defence item the Yawara is limited, and is best used by a trained person. But in the absence of anything it is very powerful force multiplier.
It's a fist load, a jabber, since it protrudes an inch on either side of the closed fist its a devastating hammer striker to the face, orbitals, soft tissues throat pressure points,and a joint striker such as if your daughter was grabbed by the wrist a hammer strike to the wrist and hand bones could quickly force a release.
Of course with my daughters they would turn an attackers face and eyeballs into hamburgar meat sauce until they could make immediate escape. They know how to fight to save themselves and to maime an attacker that would force an ER visit.
Owen Sparks
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I posted this a few days ago on the thread about brass knuckles:
A short, heavy 5" stick can be every bit as effective as brass knuckles if you know how to use it as a strike enhancer. It will concentrate the power of your strike on a very small hard surface. You can butt it into the heel of your palm just like a short knife and use it in the same stabbing/thrusting motion. Actually a short stick is better because it will be easier to release if you need to use your hand as something other than a club. Best of all it can double as something else that is perfectly legal to have in your pocket like a flashlight. The main limitation to strike enhancers is that they do not make you a better puncher, they just make your punches better. If you are not already a pretty good boxer these things have very limited value. You have to be able to reliably land a punch with your body behind it and that requires a good bit of training. In the hands of a trained boxer or a Karate black belt short sticks are a fearsome weapon. In the hands of your wife or girlfriend, not so much.
A short, heavy 5" stick can be every bit as effective as brass knuckles if you know how to use it as a strike enhancer. It will concentrate the power of your strike on a very small hard surface. You can butt it into the heel of your palm just like a short knife and use it in the same stabbing/thrusting motion. Actually a short stick is better because it will be easier to release if you need to use your hand as something other than a club. Best of all it can double as something else that is perfectly legal to have in your pocket like a flashlight. The main limitation to strike enhancers is that they do not make you a better puncher, they just make your punches better. If you are not already a pretty good boxer these things have very limited value. You have to be able to reliably land a punch with your body behind it and that requires a good bit of training. In the hands of a trained boxer or a Karate black belt short sticks are a fearsome weapon. In the hands of your wife or girlfriend, not so much.
Deltaboy1984
Member
Another vote for the 2aa mini mag light.
Dirty Bob
Member
I carried a 2AA Mini MagLite all over western Europe, through lots of secure zones in places like the Louvre, and no one ever looked twice at it. It's a flashlight: a useful item to have if the power goes out and you have to find your way out. Even had someone demanded to hold it while I was inside, it's not an expensive piece of kit like some of the "tactical" pens that folks are buying.
These same places probably would have stopped me for the smallest of the Swiss Army knives.
The other stick substitute to travel with is a cane. Much of the western world is now so PC that it may actually be illegal for them to ask about it!
All my best,
Dirty Bob
These same places probably would have stopped me for the smallest of the Swiss Army knives.
The other stick substitute to travel with is a cane. Much of the western world is now so PC that it may actually be illegal for them to ask about it!
All my best,
Dirty Bob
JimStC
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Owen Sparks
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You are good to go anyway Jim.
You do not need a prescription, a written excuse from a doctor or even a good reason to carry a cane. Whatever the reason it is CONFIDENTIAL MEDICAL INFORMATION and by law no one can inquire into the reason for your "disability" nor can they discriminate against you for carrying a walking cane anymore than they could if it were a wheel chair. They must accomidate you under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).
You do not need a prescription, a written excuse from a doctor or even a good reason to carry a cane. Whatever the reason it is CONFIDENTIAL MEDICAL INFORMATION and by law no one can inquire into the reason for your "disability" nor can they discriminate against you for carrying a walking cane anymore than they could if it were a wheel chair. They must accomidate you under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).
AStone
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As long as you're "not hustling people strange to you
Even if you do got a two-piece custom-made pool cue."
AStone
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^ A poet walks amongst us.
Dirty Bob
Member
You don't need to limp, because of your old back/hip/knee/ankle/whatever injury. It flares up when you're tired or on your feet too long, so you carry a cane. Canes are also carried by people trying to avoid re-injuring something that's healing. I should have carried one when I sprained my ankle. The slip during a monsoon downpour several weeks later resulted in a re-injury that was far worse than the first sprain.
This is medical info, so it's private and none of anybody's durned business! I've carried a rattan crook-top onto an airliner. After it was x-rayed to make sure it wasn't some hidden weapon, I was treated with caution, in spite of no limp:
"Sir, do you need the cane to reach your seat?"
The secret isn't limping. It's carrying the cane enough to make it a natural extension of you. You walk with it in a natural gait, so people assume that it's part of your daily life and don't ask questions. It doesn't hurt to have a simple story, just in case, but you'll probably never need it if you're relaxed and natural about carrying the cane.
Regards,
Dirty Bob
This is medical info, so it's private and none of anybody's durned business! I've carried a rattan crook-top onto an airliner. After it was x-rayed to make sure it wasn't some hidden weapon, I was treated with caution, in spite of no limp:
"Sir, do you need the cane to reach your seat?"
The secret isn't limping. It's carrying the cane enough to make it a natural extension of you. You walk with it in a natural gait, so people assume that it's part of your daily life and don't ask questions. It doesn't hurt to have a simple story, just in case, but you'll probably never need it if you're relaxed and natural about carrying the cane.
Regards,
Dirty Bob
AStone
Member
^ Bingo.
AStone
Member
And by the way, I guess "short stick" is now partially redefined to cane length,
even though I hope we continue to discuss mainly those less than 24"
in this thread, realizing that many of the same principles apply
if one 'chokes up' on the longer sticks.
even though I hope we continue to discuss mainly those less than 24"
in this thread, realizing that many of the same principles apply
if one 'chokes up' on the longer sticks.
Dirty Bob
Member
Short stick techniques can easily apply to a cane! If you're gripping near the top of the cane, the end above your hand can be used in a forward or rising strike, regardless of the length of the stick, especially if it's a cane like Cold Steel's City Stick.
Many of the two-handed techniques could be very similar, regardless of stick length.
I think the short stick is good to learn, as so many objects are similar in size/weight. Two of my favorites are a long socket handle or a heavy sharpening steel. In a wooden stick, I'd go for a piece of hickory, about 1-1/8" in diameter and 22-24" in length. I favor thrusting and two-handed techniques, as they don't rely on the weight of the stick for effectiveness.
But if I have a flashlight or a cane or a chair leg or the short stick that was my "towel rack" in King Hall at Navy OCS, that's what I'll use.
Best wishes,
Dirty Bob
Many of the two-handed techniques could be very similar, regardless of stick length.
I think the short stick is good to learn, as so many objects are similar in size/weight. Two of my favorites are a long socket handle or a heavy sharpening steel. In a wooden stick, I'd go for a piece of hickory, about 1-1/8" in diameter and 22-24" in length. I favor thrusting and two-handed techniques, as they don't rely on the weight of the stick for effectiveness.
But if I have a flashlight or a cane or a chair leg or the short stick that was my "towel rack" in King Hall at Navy OCS, that's what I'll use.
Best wishes,
Dirty Bob
JimStC
Member
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AStone
Member
Jim, it's OK with me. I think some 'drift' is good. It lets us compare short sticks with longer walking sticks.
In my view, there's definitely a difference in their uses for SD, meaning techniques, even though there's some overlap. Seems the transition happens right about 28" where 'baton' and kali work (on the shorter end) becomes Irish stick fighting (a la Glenn Doyle, which interests me a lot) and canefoo (which I find less interest in; I prefer straight sticks to canes).
In my view, there's definitely a difference in their uses for SD, meaning techniques, even though there's some overlap. Seems the transition happens right about 28" where 'baton' and kali work (on the shorter end) becomes Irish stick fighting (a la Glenn Doyle, which interests me a lot) and canefoo (which I find less interest in; I prefer straight sticks to canes).
No, that's called "thread drift" or "hijacking a thread" not "evolving language".
A short stick is not a cane and the guys pushing that topic simply need to point to the cane thread and not hijack yours. We might need a Jo/Bo/staff thread some day, like we have a cane thread and this short stick thread, but they're fundamentally different and warrant different discussions.
Carl Levitian
member
If I'm gonna carry something as long as a cane, then I'm carrying a cane. But to me, a short stick is something about as long as from my elbow to my fingers that I can conceal. A 14 inch stick is fast handling for those snap strikes to hands and wrists.
Carl.
Carl.
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