shortage of guns

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As mainly a collector now (just getting rid of the tinnitus crickets from years of shooting,) I prefer the Armi San Marcos.

They have a wider selection of models to collect, many with several variations.

They were advertised as being the closest reproductions to the originals with both internal and external parts interchanging in 1st Gens.

Perhaps that is why they are as tough to work on as the 2nd Gens. though Mike did not mention if originals are equally complicated.

Aside from the Uberti Nemis Gallery Cased pocket, they were the only Italian manufacturer to boldly sell factory Colt reproductions with correct original barrel addresses and cylinder markings (long and disputed story) hiding the "Black Powder Only" discreetly under the loading lever.

They, unlike Uberti and Pietta, are gone so there will never be any more ASM's made, a prime consideration in collecting.

Unlike 2nd Gens., their prices remain reasonable, or at least they did until limited imports and hefty stimulus checks inflated repro prices.

If buying to shoot, there is a wide range of quality control by ASM out there.

At the bottom are the Connecticut Valley Arms imports and at the top are the Early and Modern Firearms Hartford imports.

Just as Cimarron and Taylors currently require higher specs on their imports of Pietta and Uberti, so did EMF of the ASM's they bought.

As for soft internals, I do not think that any of the Italian manufacturers in the 1960's and 1970's could have imagined the serious use of their products that modern competitors put their reproductions through.

However the model P 1873 clones that ASM made in the late 1980's and early 1990's for Cimarron and EMF's Hartford versions seem to have held up well even in competition and the America Western Arms Co. that bought ASM's tooling to make their Peacekeeper and Longhorn models created reproductions that are still highly sought after.
 
As mainly a collector now (just getting rid of the tinnitus crickets from years of shooting,) I prefer the Armi San Marcos.

They have a wider selection of models to collect, many with several variations.

They were advertised as being the closest reproductions to the originals with both internal and external parts interchanging in 1st Gens.

Perhaps that is why they are as tough to work on as the 2nd Gens. though Mike did not mention if originals are equally complicated.

Aside from the Uberti Nemis Gallery Cased pocket, they were the only Italian manufacturer to boldly sell factory Colt reproductions with correct original barrel addresses and cylinder markings (long and disputed story) hiding the "Black Powder Only" discreetly under the loading lever.

They, unlike Uberti and Pietta, are gone so there will never be any more ASM's made, a prime consideration in collecting.

Unlike 2nd Gens., their prices remain reasonable, or at least they did until limited imports and hefty stimulus checks inflated repro prices.

If buying to shoot, there is a wide range of quality control by ASM out there.

At the bottom are the Connecticut Valley Arms imports and at the top are the Early and Modern Firearms Hartford imports.

Just as Cimarron and Taylors currently require higher specs on their imports of Pietta and Uberti, so did EMF of the ASM's they bought.

As for soft internals, I do not think that any of the Italian manufacturers in the 1960's and 1970's could have imagined the serious use of their products that modern competitors put their reproductions through.

However the model P 1873 clones that ASM made in the late 1980's and early 1990's for Cimarron and EMF's Hartford versions seem to have held up well even in competition and the America Western Arms Co. that bought ASM's tooling to make their Peacekeeper and Longhorn models created reproductions that are still highly sought after.


Ephraim,
Sir, Thank you for the thorough description and for sharing your experience, references and knowledge. Very kind of you.
Tim:thumbup:
 
Cap'n, Thanks, I didn't realize they even used PVC for grips? I would guess because it is cheaper to have faux grips? Thanks, Tim
 
I have spoken with Mike quite a bit on the 2 nd gen Colts, he says the internals are rough, timing is not right and a few other things as well. They require a lot more work to make them right. The outside fit and finish is excellent, shame the innards aren't.
 
Ephrain, Hi. You said "Aside from the Uberti Nemis Gallery Cased pocket, they were the only Italian manufacturer to boldly sell factory Colt reproductions with correct original barrel addresses and cylinder markings (long and disputed story) hiding the "Black Powder Only" discreetly under the loading lever.". Any good suggested links and or reading material that I might could read into this further? Thanks again,
Tim
 
I’ve read far too often that ASM had quality issues, enough so I wouldn’t want to gamble on them. I don’t know how hard it would be to modify other companies parts to work in an ASM, but with parts all but gone I see it as another reason to skip over them.
 
I’ve read far too often that ASM had quality issues, enough so I wouldn’t want to gamble on them. I don’t know how hard it would be to modify other companies parts to work in an ASM, but with parts all but gone I see it as another reason to skip over them.
None of my ASMs have any quality issues. The only negatives I've heard is that some have complained about soft internals. This is easily fixable by first making sure fit and function are perfect and correcting if not, then treating them with Kasenit (available on eBay for around 13 bucks) and you now have case-hardened parts.
 
Ephrain, Hi. You said "Aside from the Uberti Nemis Gallery Cased pocket, they were the only Italian manufacturer to boldly sell factory Colt reproductions with correct original barrel addresses and cylinder markings (long and disputed story) hiding the "Black Powder Only" discreetly under the loading lever.". Any good suggested links and or reading material that I might could read into this further? Thanks again,
Tim
Here's a thread about 2G Colts from this forum, Tim.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/colt-dragoon-revolver-2nd-model.571586/
 
As far as the action parts being "interchangeable" with with the real thing, the open top revolvers aren't even close . . . even a little bit. That said, the copies of the S.A.A.'S are pretty much blueprint copies. The biggest trouble with many of the early early guns (across the board) is the relationship between the parts and ending up with a "perfect" setup. Having a SA that can barely be set up as intended by the inventor is majorly irritating!!!
Then there is (to me) the "prominent chin" the barrel lug has for the Walker/ Dragoon series had for a long time but was "corrected " in later yrs.
Then again, there are "collectors " and I have been a major collector ( of other things) and have no business or say so one way or another what a collector wants . . . I understand that animal!!!

But put simply, in my estimation, the current offerings of Uberti's and Pietta's are a much better rendition of what was originally offered than about any other offering in the past ( including the older versions of Uberti and Pietta). The edge goes to Uberti because of the most correct action parts compared to originals I've worked on.

Mike
 
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Any good suggested links and or reading material that I might could read into this further?
Hi Zulch! Here are some historical THR threads you may be interested in:
Colt Address on Non-Colt Percussion Revolvers | The High Road
ASM vs Colt Lawsuit Info Wanted | The High Road
Italian Colt's replicas with "Close but No Ceegar" Colt marks | The High Road
Colt Marked ASM v/s Colt 2nd Gen | The High Road
Post 32 in the above shows my Uberti Nemis Gallery Cased Pocket.
Another ASM with Colt Barrel Address | The High Road
If any of that was confusing or brought questions to mind, feel free to ask!
 
Also, i will say that as long as the parts are workable ( able to be worked on) i would pick an ASM over a 2nd gen Colt (open top) to tune!! The Colt series are the absolute worst across the board. Doesn't mean they can't be made perfect, just way more time . . . and most Smith's/ tuners wont work on them ( or ASM's) today. The only reason i do is because of the previous sentence.

Mike
 
I see ASMs on gunbroker often. I am interested in getting one. One I saw was a brass frame. I don’t have a brasser. It seems some people like them. I understand that they can stretch under heavy loads over a period of time? If you keep smaller loads they can last a long while? Thank you, Tim
 
I see ASMs on gunbroker often. I am interested in getting one. One I saw was a brass frame. I don’t have a brasser. It seems some people like them. I understand that they can stretch under heavy loads over a period of time? If you keep smaller loads they can last a long while? Thank you, Tim


For sure a brass framed pistol can last a lifetime and some if loaded mildly. From what I’ve seen all too often said is that 20 grns is about max, though there was someone who claimed a lot of shooting with 25 grns and all being well. I’ve never seen anyone suggest a Spiller & Burr be downloaded and it’s max is about 20 grns with a ball, same with the brass Remington .31. But I also wouldn’t shoot anything but round balls either as heavier projectiles add to the stress and pressures.
 
I see ASMs on gunbroker often. I am interested in getting one. One I saw was a brass frame. I don’t have a brasser. It seems some people like them. I understand that they can stretch under heavy loads over a period of time? If you keep smaller loads they can last a long while? Thank you, Tim
Tim, Brassers can take up to 25gr once in a while. I would not feed one a steady diet. I generally get best accuracy from mine between 15 and 18 grains. Anything more at the range is wasted powder.
 
I like to practice with my hunting loads. Of course if these are just range toys or whatnot, for probably over 90% they’re just that, then there’s not much reason not to shoot the most accurate. I’ve never tried less than 25 grns as that was my baseline for humane usage, but I will be as I’ve been leaning on my 12 year old daughter to spend a range day with me (she likes fishing and archery so far) and the most accurate with the least report and recoil would be our friend on that day.
 
I never thought I would have seen the day that there would be a shortage of BP revolvers. Although I've only looked for 1858 Remington guns, there just aren't any. Oh, one or two of the high grade target models, but no sheriff models with the 5 1/2" barrels, and very few 8" guns. The local gun stores are out of modern handguns. Are people that worried ?
Try to get a high wall in any caliber, or any HBP cartridge, loaded or brass such as 45-70/90 etc. I seriously doubt any one is buying a single shot rifle that weighs 13# or the ammo of same for home defense. Although prices are incredibly high, I find no shortage of the most popular rifle & pistol ammo, i.e. 9 or 10mm, 45 ACP; .223, 556, & 308. I suspect shortages are driven by profit motives and production capacity. With lots of capacity, you make everything that makes money. With limited capacity, you only make product with the greatest net profit. Of course marketing strategies such as limiting competition and creating bragging fodder play a role, too. Demand is way up to be sure, but dealers i spoke with say production worker shortages and a belief that Covid wouldn’t be around long enough to justify increasing facilities and/or work shifts are to blame for shortages across everything from flintlocks to cowboy ammo. No one is projecting when it will get better. That’s my two cents worth. Used to be able to buy a boollit with that.
 
I have spoken with Mike quite a bit on the 2 nd gen Colts, he says the internals are rough, timing is not right and a few other things as well. They require a lot more work to make them right. The outside fit and finish is excellent, shame the innards aren't.

I don't think they thought they would ever be shot and probably most were not by their original purchasers. Many sat in collections from original collectors until recent years and just recently been shot.
 
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