Shotgun ammo for home defense

[conan32120]

Guess one could always go cowboy and fill a 12ga full of dimes.

 

[Oninotaki]

Guess one could always go cowboy and fill a 12ga full of dimes.

I actually have wondered what a full 2.5" or 3" .410 shell of just the disks from the Winchester pdx1 would be like.

 

[12Bravo20]

I actually have wondered what a full 2.5" or 3" .410 shell of just the disks from the Winchester pdx1 would be like.

They would be fine at home defense distances but the pattern starts to open up at 15 yards.

1 round of PDX1 at 7 yards



And 1 round of PDX1 at 15 yards.

 

[Cvans]

I don't think I'd want to live in the next apartment when one of you opens fire with your buckshot. Oofta that would smarts. # 4 bird shot I'm thinking would do the job just fine for in home defense. Not really interested in defending the inside of the neighbors place.

 

[lemaymiami]

What I forgot to say... post #44... was that I don't live in an apartment (and haven't in many many years)... My comments were very valid in a single family residence set in the average suburban area - but not at all in an apartment setting. I actually have handled one call where an ordinary pistol round did penetrate a neighbor's apartment - just good fortune no one was hit since a single 9mm round did make it from one side of an apartment all the way to the far wall - and at the height where any occupant in the way would have been struck...

The recommendation for smaller shot or smaller rounds is appropriate for an apartment dweller - certainly. That said, if anyone has a good article or research paper showing what will or will not penetrate standard drywall construction in apartment buildings (and with what remaining energy...) I'd love to read about it...

 

[12Bravo20]

I agree and would not use any buckshot loads in an apartment to include my 3" 410 loads. Living in an apartment, duplex, or condo effects what type of ammo you use for home defense.

 

[a_canadian]

It sort of seems there's a bit of magical thinking going on when it comes to things like, for example, using buckshot in a 'normal suburban environment.' Paul Harrell has done some relevant video presentations on shotgun use for home defense. This one from 7 years ago seems relevant on this question.

Bird Shot in your Home Defense Shotgun.

www.youtube.com

As one can see just after the 5 minute mark, buckshot has no problem going through 5 layers of drywall, insulation, then exterior cladding, to blow 2 litre pop bottles to pieces. He goes on to make a sort of simulated human target, and demonstrates that the #8 birdshot does a very decent job there, while not doing very much damage to the drywall behind. Seems his results lead to the conclusion that for any indoor use, birdshot seems adequate.

As I stated earlier, I feel less than confident about birdshot as-supplied, so have opted for home-modified #7.5 with beeswax to render them into erstwhile 'slugs' which promptly fly apart and become rather weaker birdshot after hitting whatever they first hit, whether that be drywall or an intruder. For me, this seems a comfortable compromise. I just don't feel comfortable throwing anything heavier, with greater penetration inherent, through 1 or 2 walls, when neighbouring houses are only 10 to 15 metres away in two directions, 25 to 45 metres away in the other two directions. Buckshot or lead slugs aren't going to slow down all that much in air over those short distances.

 

[Leon tP]

My nearest neighbor is about a half mile away and there's lots of hills and trees in between so I just use run of the mill buckshot. Guess I haven't been keeping up with the times.

I don't doubt that birdshot at living room range would be very bad for the intruder though. Unless you have one of those huge fancy houses with half an acres of living room space.

 

[a_canadian]

These threads should be broken up into several categories. Dense urban apartment towers, single family homes/duplexes, suburban sprawl with large yards, and rural isolated farmhouse distances. No way any of this stuff can span such a wide variety of situations as regards ranging would-be attackers and over-penetration risks.

 

[Cvans]

After watching that video I'd say a 20ga. loaded with #4 or 5 shot would be more than enough to make a mess out of any intruder in a home defense situation. Even if he's on the other side of the wall. Gads what a mess to clean up.

 

[Elkins45]

Time to tell this story again because of all the people advocating for birdshot.

30 years ago I killed an average sized whitetail doe and while skinning/butchering her I discovered a mass of birdshot pellets in her neck barely beneath the skin and not even down to the vertebrae. The pellet density was pretty high, indicating she had been shot from fairly close range before they had a chance to spread. There was no obvious wound and she appeared to have fully recovered with no noticeable impairment.

I learned all I needed to know about small shot as a defensive option from that deer. Birdshot lacks the sectional density needed to reliably penetrate into vital organs, especially if your home invader has a layer of fat or is wearing a heavy coat. You need big, dense pellets in order to maintain momentum. Round balls are very poor penetrators compared to pointy bullets. A 00 buck pellet and an 8mm rifle bullet are both 32 caliber but the pellet weighs around 80 grains and the bullet weighs 200+.

 

[a_canadian]

Colour me surprised. Paul did a video on 12ga wax slugs using #7.5 shot 3 years ago. Seems his results align with what I'm seeing from these things. Takes about a minute each to make them out of normal 2.75" shells, but then again, I don't intend to do all that much home defense shooting, so volume really isn't relevant.

Wax Slugs

Paul tests out some wax slugs, and compares them to conventional shotgun ammo.Shirts and patches from Tristar Trading Co: https://alnk.to/6bSTELxOther platfo...

www.youtube.com

 

[Oninotaki]

Colour me surprised. Paul did a video on 12ga wax slugs using #7.5 shot 3 years ago. Seems his results align with what I'm seeing from these things. Takes about a minute each to make them out of normal 2.75" shells, but then again, I don't intend to do all that much home defense shooting, so volume really isn't relevant.

Wax Slugs

Paul tests out some wax slugs, and compares them to conventional shotgun ammo.Shirts and patches from Tristar Trading Co: https://alnk.to/6bSTELxOther platfo...

www.youtube.com

There are so many weird .410 duplex loads that have terrible patterns at any distance that I want to see how they would hold together with a wax job.

In addition .410 foster slugs are so light and hold together so poorly once contact is made that I want to see how many sheets of dry wall one of those slugs can go through before they disintegrate.

What if the ultimate .410 slug is one of those duplex loads held together by wax, and the best performing .410 home defense loads inside an apartment turns out to be a foster slug cause it's so fragile

 

[Double_J]

I haveto say 12 gauge 8 or 9 pellet 2.75 inch shells work best for me. I would go with a number 4 buckshot load or similar, or a good heavy turkey / Goose load that has been patterned in YOUR gun if over penetration is a concern.

 

[vanfunk]

I keep a Benelli M4 close by in the bedroom, standing by with Winchester 00 buck and 6 shells in the Mesa Tactical side saddle. I’ve practiced a lot with this combo and feel I can pretty well wither an area around me out to 25 yards. I don’t want a fight. If there’s going to be a fight, despite my encouragement to the contrary, I plan to end the fight immediately and decisively. My wife will be nearby with a Glock 21 with +2 magazine extensions. If by some horrible miscalculation on my part the intruders should happen to make it up the stairs, my son is there with his 20 gauge 870 and the aforementioned Winchester PDX #2 loads. Oh, and a S&W 66 loaded with 125 grain hollowpoints. My daughter is up there too with her LMT 5.56. We are in a rural area and have no concerns of overpenetration unless a vagabond group of teenagers decides to create a drive-in theater in our driveway. We probably sound like doomsday preppers but we’re really not, we just feel more at ease having broad capability for come what may.

 

[357smallbore]

#1 buck all the way.

 

[luv2safari]

That is an under utilized option!

It's a great option, IMO. I use 7 1/2 field loads for the first two shots, then the 00 Buck for a real punch if necessary. I don't like the idea of 33 cal pellets pushing through walls. Inside a home the field load shot shell is mean medicine at close range.

 

[Random 8]

Some really old SuperX Mark 5 #4 buck naked column (no shotcup or sleeve). I got a big pile of them on auction many years ago for a song. I test fire several per year and they are still trustworthy. When there are raccoon problems, one of my CP high velocity #6 1 1/8 loads is chambered. Don't need to be skipping 4 buck pellets through any steel siding outside.

 

[Random 8]

Had a coyote come through a couple times.
Told bud use #4 buck for his 870 and we'd call er in.
BOOM BOOM across the creek from his stand comes the yote at a good trot.
I blasted it w my .357 revolver, heart shot it flipped and went maybe 10 yards and died.

He used #4 pheasant load.

Oops.

Now I do have some left over #4 turkey loads. Buffered, plated shot, controlled wad......I suspect it would just be one nasty hole at HD distance.

It aint a promo game load.

I've rolled a few coyotes with #4 heavy pheasant load. They take a licking and keep ticking with those! Knocks em over but they come up running. Bb lead or 4 buck keeps them down, but it's a bit rough on pheasants!

 

[Thomasss]

Remington 2.75 inch high brass Power Piston Express #2s. There is nothing left to use them on except 2 legged critters in Wisconsin. I have a few left from goose hunting with lead back in the 1960s. I shoot one once in a while making sure they still function. It makes a mess of 3/4 inch plywood at 12 yards.

 

[GE-Mini-Gun]

Hornady Critical Defense 8 pellet 00 buck. I always get a flyer with any 9 pellet loading

 

[AK Hunter]

Guess one could always go cowboy and fill a 12ga full of dimes.

LOL Would you say keep the change every time you pull the trigger?


If I was going to use a shotgun as my home defence weapon I would use ether Augila's mini slug or 00 buck in the mini shell. That way I can much more rounds in my gun.

 

[N555]

#2 lead hard plated bird shot. About 100 pellets per shell assuming 1 and 1/8 ounces of shot.

 

[357smallbore]

S&B #1 buck.
It will get the job done with authority.

 

[tactikel]

Any projectile which penetrates less than 12” is inadequate for self defense. To put a “hurtin“on somebody who is a deadly threat is plain foolish, your aim is to incapacitate the assailant asap. Birdshot is for birds period.