Shotgun Defensive Ammunition

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rojocorsa

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I have no experience with defense ammo in shotguns, I have only shot trap with 12ga #8 shot pretty much.

My question is: What is the effective range of 00buck from a shotgun out 20 inch barrel with a modified choke?

And also, What other shotgun loads are good for defense or crowd(looters) control? The state of our economy has me pretty worried.:uhoh:

And I'm guessing that in a SHTF situation it is better to have a pump gun than a semi-auto, right?
 
00 buck is effective at any range you would consider self defense.

As far as auto vs. pump, use whatever you are comfortable with!
 
Buckshot generally isn't effective beyond 35 yards IMO, even if your pattern stays tight the penetration ability of the pellets starts to become more and more erratic beyond that distance.

I prefer 000 buck for its tight patterns and relatively impressive individual pellet power, and #1 buck, for its high number of reasonably effective pellets. I see 00 buck as being somewhat of a mediocre compromise but I'd never feel underarmed using it and and it's certainly a lot easier to find in quantity compared to the other buckshot sizes.
 
You can do pretty well with 00 buck to 35 to 40 yards, but that's about maximum range with it. You'll also want to practice some with it, since it has a tendency to rise, or hit above point of aim. I've seen suspects shot with it at about 30 yards, and they were DOA.

We used both 9 and 12 pellet loads, depending on the time period. When I started in 1971, we were using the 9 pellet loads, and then in about 1980 or so, we switched to the 2 3/4" Magnum loads with 12 pellets. I prefer the Magnum load myself.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
see if you can get federal tactical 00 buck. this stuff groups alarmingly tight. I've shot a lot of diffrent brands of buckshot but i have never seen something pattern so tightly in my life.
 
My question is: What is the effective range of 00buck from a shotgun out 20 inch barrel with a modified choke?
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The effective range is longer than you should be shooting somebody if you are going to claim self defense.

And also, What other shotgun loads are good for defense or crowd(looters) control? The state of our economy has me pretty worried.
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Don't worry yourself into a frenzy. Paranoia is worse for you than the imagined crowd of looters you're picturing.

And I'm guessing that in a SHTF situation it is better to have a pump gun than a semi-auto, right?
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Only if the pump is more reliable than the semi-auto. That's not necessarily a given. Depends upon the shotgun and it's contingent upon you to do your homework and determine. Also, buy something and use it and decide just how reliable it is.
 
Shot gun defesensive ammo?

1. I thought of using birdshot in inside-the-home defensive situation. I'm choosing birdshot to reduce wall penetration. I really don't want my shots ending up accross the street and penetrating the neighbor's house.

Question: How deadly is birdshot (12 gauge) within the range of say 30 feet max? How wide would the pattern be within that same 30 feet?

2. For outside-the-house riot control, (should the rare situation arise), I thought of using #1 buckshot. What would be the effective defensive range and how wide would the pattern be?

In both situations, I will be using the 2.75 in shell. Mossberg 500 Persusader Model.
 
I'm using alternating OO buckshot and 1 oz. slugs in my Mossberg 500A Cruiser shotgun. Chamber is not loaded for safety.
 
Every shotgun barrel is pretty much a law unto itself as far as patterning goes. The only way to determine what a given barrel will do with a given load at a given range is to take it out to the range and shoot it. Assumptions about shotgun and load performance are as dangerous as any other assumption made with no basis in fact. It's too easy to find out what your shotgun and load will do at various ranges to make assumptions that might not be borne out in fact.

"Crowd control?" I'm afraid I really can't find any useful or helpful way to address that. It isn't something I would want to have to undertake under any circumstances, and if I did have to, I don't think I'd want a shotgun to do it. Even as tight patterning as our house guns and loads tend to be, buckshot might not be 'specific' enough and slugs tend to overpenetrate. The problem in confronting a mob with a gun is that they just might force you to use it. I'd rather stay out of sight and not be directly confrontational.

A good quality, well maintained semiauto with good ammunition is going to be about as reliable as a pumpgun. Some people prefer one, some the other- use what you like. Pumpguns are less expensive by about half most of the time, that's a deciding factor for some people.

Psyprof, while I zipped up body bags on people killed with birdshot out of shotguns at short range in my brief career as an EMT, I won't use it in a defensive shotgun myself. Selecting loads for a defensive shotgun is an individual decision and I would not presume to make it for anyone else.

Stay Safe,

lpl
 
psyprofessor said:
1.Question: How deadly is birdshot (12 gauge) within the range of say 30 feet max? How wide would the pattern be within that same 30 feet?
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Plenty deadly enough out of a 12 gauge at that range. Use #6 or bigger, I like #4 or #1 myself inside the house, but #6 would get the job done.

2. For outside-the-house riot control, (should the rare situation arise), I thought of using #1 buckshot. What would be the effective defensive range and how wide would the pattern be?
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Personally, at "outdoor" ranges I'd go straight to one of the "0" series buckshots. You're going to need something big and heavy with a bit of a pattern to it (you are going to need some "two for one" shots). And if there are more than 8 zombies coming, you had better have a 2nd gun and a 2nd shooter. :evil:
 
1. I thought of using birdshot in inside-the-home defensive situation. I'm choosing birdshot to reduce wall penetration. I really don't want my shots ending up accross the street and penetrating the neighbor's house.

Question: How deadly is birdshot (12 gauge) within the range of say 30 feet max? How wide would the pattern be within that same 30 feet?

2. For outside-the-house riot control, (should the rare situation arise), I thought of using #1 buckshot. What would be the effective defensive range and how wide would the pattern be?

In both situations, I will be using the 2.75 in shell. Mossberg 500 Persusader Model.
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I wouldn't want to depend on birdshot, #4 buckshot is about as light as I'd go, from what I've seen even #4 buck seems to be somewhat marginal in penetration beyond the distance where the shot column is hitting as one mass.

#1 buck should be good to 35 yards, just be aware that many shotguns don't seem to pattern this load very well and also that it gives up very little in recoil to a 12 pellet 00 Magnum load.
 
Depending on your abode's construction, # 4 buck may be fine - or not. I like a good load of # 2 birdshot as my ranges will be close and the neighbors close. One huge advantage of the shotgun is the ability to stack loads - so, first up is # 2 birdshot, but after that buckshot - on the idea that if I've missed, things have changed.
 
I use slugs exclusively for S/HD, as well as for deer.

Reduced recoil slugs tend to penetrate very deeply in deer-sized, lightly built game, but full power Foster slugs do not. Of course, you pay a recoil penalty for full power slugs.

John
 
Sir Aardvark
"Try using Federal's "Flight Control" 00 buck in your gun and see how it patterns. This ammo tends to hold very tight patterns at further distances."
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darkknight
"see if you can get federal tactical 00 buck. this stuff groups alarmingly tight. I've shot a lot of diffrent brands of buckshot but i have never seen something pattern so tightly in my life."
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Federal's LE132-00 Reduced Recoil 00 Buck holds between 6 and 7 inches at 25 yards from my 18" unchoked Mossberg 930 SPX.
Sadly....that's a tighter pattern than I can hold pistol groups at said distance :(.
 
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"Buckshot generally isn't effective beyond 35 yards IMO, even if your pattern stays tight the penetration ability of the pellets starts to become more and more erratic beyond that distance." -- Youngster

I agree with Youngster. Here is a video that confirms the 35 yds estimate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEVUY6YKot4

I believe that Federal's "Flight Control" 00 Buckshot may be an exception to this range but I have never tested it.

Heavy
 
1. I thought of using birdshot in inside-the-home defensive situation. I'm choosing birdshot to reduce wall penetration. I really don't want my shots ending up accross the street and penetrating the neighbor's house.
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Then don't discharge any firearm in your house/neighborhood, under any circumstances, even if someone is endangering your family.

Birdshot creates ugly, messy, aweful looking, superficial, and very survivable wounds. It cannot be relied on to stop a determined attacker. There are many people who've been shot with birdshot that were able to drive themselves long ways to the hospitol, or home to treat themselves.

So many people think that a bullet that won't penetrate a wall will kill/stop a person. You can't have everything, there's compromise needed in things like shooting people inside your house. If you keep a firearm in your house, to be used in the possibility of a home invasion, you have to understand that if you miss, bullets will be zinging around your neighborhood.

Any projectile that will reliably kill/stop a human will go through several layers of drywall. Probably a few studs and brick too. Houses are not built that sturdily. The solution is to load up with ammunition that is powerful enough to reliably stop an attacker, and learn to shoot so you minimize your risk of stray rounds in the 'hood. I keep 00 buck in my shotguns. 00 will go through a person, and it will go through walls, but not nearly as much penetration as a rifle or some handgun rounds. It's the only reliable compromise out there.
 
Actually, do a search on this here. Several recent threads had links to tests showing full power Foster slugs actually penetrate less than 00 buck at close range: this is due to slug deformation and/or fragmentation.
 
Actually, do a search on this here. Several recent threads had links to tests showing full power Foster slugs actually penetrate less than 00 buck at close range: this is due to slug deformation and/or fragmentation.
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In what mediums though? I've always found that Foster slugs penetrated at least as much and usually a lot more than any kind of buckshot.
 
Having actually killed critters with birdshot, I agree that it's strictly a VERY close range solution, but it's a solution. The bigger the projectile, the furthur your lethal engagement area. My birdshot is #2 lead "goose loads" and breaks 2x4s out to about 5 yards - but the odds of a single pellet striking someone in another house are incredibly small.
 
Youngster, ballistic gelatin. Links, anyone?
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I'll take those links, but I'd like to point out that ballistic gelatin is not building materials, if you miss your attacker with a slug then that thing will tend to carry a lot further through walls than any size of pellet.
 
Youngster said:
Hmm, interesting thanks. I've usually found that slug vs buck penetration is more in line with the video above.
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Punching through a couple of pieces of sheet metal isn't at all like slogging through you way through a couple of feet of ballistic gel.
 
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