Shotgun Questions

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Tell me, if it's a part of my patriotic duty to serve in a militia which does not exist then why doesn't the gov't pay for my gun purchases? Hell I'll take a free Remington if they're handing them out for that invasion that isn't going on right now. I make $8 a hour, work part time, and share living conditions with people who all don't like guns, so waxing patriotic isn't going to convince me to by a fogey ol pump to fight the criminals that live no where near us. If you want me to get a 870 so bad tell them to start making Utas 15's in their factories or come up with something new.

You're a cheeky fellow, aren't you.:D

Which is fine, but what is your purpose here? Are you seeking advice, trying to justify what you already know is a bad decision, or are you on some strange mission to try and make believers out of all us UTAS haters???

In your OP, you claim to be seeking advice. But why? Let's say you get a craving for ice cream. You already know ice cream is bad for you, so you don't need us to tell you that. You're more than five years old, so you already know what flavor you like. We can lecture you about how ice cream is bad for you, or tell you which flavor we think is good, but those are things you already know mingled with subjective opinions that have nothing to do with your personal tastes. If we're here to talk about our subjective tastes, then I vote for the SPAS 12. I absolutely love the way it looks, and I would buy one if given the right opportunity, but I would never try to justify it for self defense. Possibly for collector value, but never ever for defense. Or for hunting or skeet or any other practical purpose. It would be purely for me to play with.

What pains me though is your attitude. First of all, the militia does exist, as I already told you. Every able bodied citizen capable of bearing arms is part of the militia, as it was defined by our founding fathers. And the government doesn't supply the militia with arms for two reasons. First and foremost, the militia exists primarily to resist the formation of a tyrannical government, and secondly to repel an invasion by a foreign army or to quell unrest. Thus, it would be inappropriate for the government to have anything to do with the militia's affairs, such as supplying its weapons. Also, we are not socialists, we are a republic. Contrary to popular belief, it is not the government's place or job to give anything to anyone. It is your responsibility to furnish your own weapons for your own self defense. Do you realize that the constitution does not even afford you the right to emergency services, such as law enforcement? It affords you the right to protect yourself, nothing more. The police are a bonus, and they protect you out of the goodness of their hearts, not because they are compelled to by any law or moral obligation. They can put down that badge at any time and take up an easier job for more pay, and that's sadly what's happening because of how they're being abused, both by the government and by the people.

As for your roommates, do you pay your share of the rent? If so, then they have absolutely no right to say one word about you having a gun. That is your house as much as it is theirs, and you have your rights accordingly. With that said, I don't go around advertising my guns to people. When I was in college, I had roommates for the first two years, and I didn't tell them about my guns. Some of my close friends knew, but that was it. Finally, you've already made the decision to get a gun, so this is really a moot point. It doesn't matter what kind of gun you get to your roommates. If they're anti gun, then one gun is the same as the next to them. If anything, a "grampa gun" would make them feel easier than some radical two barreled death machine. But I would advise you don't tell them about it or leave it where they would find it. Anti gun people are scary around guns, so just pretend like you're living in a house with small children. Meaning keep the gun locked and hidden. When you transport the gun, break it down and put it in a gym bag so they think you're just going to the gym.

I'm also assuming that you're 21 or about to be very soon. As such, you should be focusing on a pistol that's appropriate for concealed carry. Again, it is your duty as a man and as an American to provide for your own defense as much as is possible. If you're expecting the police to rescue you, you have another thing coming. And I've got news for you, there are criminals everywhere. There are heroine and meth addicts in your neighborhood, and hundreds or thousands of them in your city, depending on population. There's a place called Jasper AR where I have family. It's a sleepy little place in the Ozarks with a small population that's popular for retired folks who like to come watch the leaves change. I once had the opportunity to view the local sheriff's office's collection of weapons seized during drug raids. It looked like like they had raided El Chapo's compound. Big display case full of gold and silver plated SMGs, and not the semi auto knockoffs you see at gunshows. Every last one had been confiscated from local meth dealers. And if the crime rate in that sleepy little town is that high, just imagine what you're dealing with in any decent sized city. You should go down to your local PD and ask for a ride along. Ask the officer what kind of stuff he deals with on a weekly basis. You'll never look at your little neck of the woods the same again. Like I said before, would you want to live in a house without smoke alarms?
 
As stated a few post ago .... Let's keep this high road.

grampajack - I agree with your first responses to the thread. Good advice is only useful if taken. Also, it was clear that the prevailing opinion was that the OP should purchase the range toy if wanted, even for a first firearm purchase.

Let's all relax and have a great weekend. I did swing into Cabelas after work and looked over some tactical shotgun options for HD. Good stuff.

Swanee
 
I don't even like the UTAS anymore, but if there was something like it not made by keltec, i would buy it in a second.

I know the drugs popular in my neck of the woods, vodka and weed. no one is getting a silver plated uzi from selling untaxed vodka or moonshine to their friends or weed which is also sold from acquaintance to acquaintance, basically the lack of gov't supervision in these matters and the fact that both require you to know someone well to acquire make it quite different than meth, crack, or heroin, which is the drug of the nearby upper middle class towns as opposed to the working and college city i live in. There is no drug war here and we charge criminals out the wazoo so there's very little crime except for the occasional new york drug dealer who moves in, goes hard and kills someone who owes him only to find out everyone that knows he did it snitched him out and they get him locked up for a decade or two.


honestly at this rate im willing to just pay someone to make me a pistol version of the 1887 like this just to get my shotgun fix, at least then it's a proven model and i can conceal carry it. :cool:
RGq3lzj.jpg
 
Just to show you that I am not a foe of progress, the 1897 Winchester proved itself to be a better gun than the 1887. :evil:
 
Let me know when you take your CCW class. I want to see the look on the instructor's face when you tell him you need a lever action endorsement on your license.:D

Steve McQueen probably has some holster ideas for you. You'll just have to take to wearing trench coats year round to conceal it.

f24bedca0babc9959fe783e3d9572af5.jpg
 
Yeah but the 1887 i want is a shotgun turned into a pistol, the 1897 was a shotgun turned into a spear.

you cant conceal carry a spear.
 
Yeah but the 1887 i want is a shotgun turned into a pistol, the 1897 was a shotgun turned into a spear.

you cant conceal carry a spear.

Oh, okay, you want a trench gun configured like the lever action in your picture, am I tracking now?

I'm not sure what the going price is for an original, but if you chop it the people on this forum will likely have you charged with murder. There might be reproductions or at least similar models out there, though. What you'll end up with is an AOW, which requires registration and a 5 dollar tax if I remember correctly. I don't know what the waiting period for AOWs is, I've never done one.

You're going to be looking at some serious gunsmithing fees, though. If you use the 1897 trench gun as your base, then I have no idea how that would work. You'd have to shorten the mag tube along with the barrel. It's not like an 870 where you can just cut the barrel. If you used a regular 1897, with the standard length mag tube, then that would be easier. But, I think even the regular models are kind of pricy if they're in good shape, and I seriously doubt anyone is making faithful reproductions. All in all, I think this is more trouble than you're wanting to get into.

ETA: You know, if you're going to get into the whole registration with the ATF thing, then just pay the 200 bucks and do an SBS (short barreled shotgun). I've shot 12 gauges with pistol grips, and it's useless. They're good for breaching doors and that's it because you can't aim them for crap and they handle horribly. So put a stock on it and then you'll have a badass looking gun that can do serious work.
 
Or i can make a AOW out of a 1887 instead of the pump and not look like im beating it while i shoot.
 
I figure that 1887 in the picture has been chopped to 16.1 inches in barrel length considering how it looks compared to the chiappa T model's 18.5 so maybe it won't even be a sbs...
1887_TSERIES.jpg
 
Okay, I'm confused again. When you said spear I assumed you were referring to the bayonet on the 1897 trench gun. I'm not aware of any bayonet for the 1887?

Anyhoo, looks like we're talking about the 1887 for sure. On the barrel length, shotguns are 18'' instead of 16''. Don't ask me why. I don't know what the overall length requirement is. I'm wanting to say it's 26'', but don't quote me on that. So basically you can chop the barrel off at 18.5ish, then you can lop off the stock until you're right over the overall requirement. If you go any shorter on either end, then it's an AOW and you have to get the tax stamp before you can do the modification.
 
Okay, I'm tracking again. Sorry, 8s and 9s look the same to me on computer screens.
 
guess im getting a AOW then, i want it no longer than the wood slabs, just like in the picture.
 
attention well enough for me to get good with it.
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Having read through all the posts in this thread, I wonder what the final choice will be. The discussion ranged from choosing a Utas to a Dp-12 (Rejecting old fashioned pump guns in favor of new fashioned pump guns) to a shortly lever action.
All of this focus on firearms that have limited practical use (probably fun the shoot, though), makes me wonder about what "get good with it" means.
CO
Conceal carry a gun that is more than a foot long? Good trick.
Pete
 
So we went from not wanting a 'grampa gun' designed in the 1950's-1960's because of wanting of a more modern design..... to now wanting a 'great-grampa's gun' designed in the late 1800's ??


There's nothing wrong with the desires. Mine vary a lot too and change often so don't take it as criticism.


That chopped 1887 looks cool.. and fun. But I couldn't imagine shooting it very much.


Try this.....
Take your grampas shot gun and shoot at least 2 boxes of ammo while holding it the same way you would have to hold the chopped 1887.

Do that before you get serious about spending your hard earned money on it.




Don't let you imagination take over, particularly with your 1st gun purchase. Otherwise, you'll likely end up with more buyers remorse than a gun that will get used much.

Think about the shooting you have been doing that you've enjoyed. Since you already know you enjoy that, you'll probably be doing mostly more of that, and of course some other stuff too.





I could tell lots of stories of examples but I wont bore you to death.
 
These guys are absolutely correct. If you've never shot an AOW before then you're in for a treat. I'm a stocky guy with thick wrists, and even when I was a kid I could shoot magnums with no problem that had most adults running for ice packs. I do not enjoy shooting pistol gripped shotguns, and I don't know anyone who does. Just to put this in perspective, when shooting an AOW you absolutely must wear gloves or you'll bleed.
 
Is there even a american made 1887 lever action? they're all chinese or itallian? if there is i cant find it.
 
So your fingers stay in the lever loop when you fire the gun?

I guess they have to, there is no where else for them to be. :uhoh:
 
???


Depending on the load used and how well you hold the gun upon firing, recoil may well force that metal lever against your fingers in an unpleasant way. This was not as much a factor when the lever gun had a shoulder stock on it as it is in the shorty configuration.
Pete
 
Would doing this help?

certainly help make a functional firearm worthless..You would likely get more penetration and velocity from a BB gun.

Course even the crackhead in the movie didn't fire it..
 
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