jcwit
member
So you need to figure out a way to incarcerate all those who should not be free!
We do not even have enough prison space as it is!
We do not even have enough prison space as it is!
So you don't think G Gordon Liddy should ever get his guns back?
We can agree to disagree. I'd be willing to bet that society would be far more violent and full of evil if there was no threat of jail. It is a big deterrent but to some, they just don't care. Those are the ones who should not get their rights back. They don't care about anyone else but themselves and their own wants and needs. They won't ever want to do the right thing because they just don't care.
many non-violent offenses have been classified as felony-level offenses.
I also think there should be a process for revisiting violent crimes after a certain amount of time has passed.
grampajack said:The only deterrent to violent crime is an armed citizen. Gangsters all agree; they're not afraid of prison, or even the police, but they are deathly afraid of an armed victim.
Interviewing a group of prison inmates, Stossel reports, "Some maximum security felons I spoke to in New Jersey scoffed at measures like the Brady law. They said they'll have no trouble getting guns if they want them.
A Justice Department study confirmed what the prisoners said. But get this: the felons say that the thing they fear the most is not the police, not time in prison, but, you, another American who might be armed."
deadin said:I believe there already is a mechanism for this. It's called a petition for restoration of rights. I agree that it could be less onerous, but it still involves someone determining that a person is no longer a threat to society. This is one step down from keeping them locked up forever if they can't get along in society.
I agree that your friend should be able to present a strong case that his rights be restored. Has he even petitioned the courts?
Jail is not a deterrent. In a sick and twisted way, it's actually a motivation. For a gang banger, going to jail is like going to boot camp.
They also agree that losing their rights is not even a small consideration. They never voted in the lives anyways, nor did they plan to, and they've been illegally carrying a firearm since they were a teenager. When polled, virtually all ex cons say that being prohibited from owning a firearm in no way deters them from obtaining one, and they don't even really think about it. They carried illegally before they were convicted, so nothing has really changed for them.
...And if they were let go, and that was a wise decision on the part of the court, then there's no reason they should be prohibited from owning a gun.
By creating all these half citizens, we're not protecting the public, we're not creating a deterrent, we're not reducing the chance of repeat offense. All we're doing is undermining the confidence and self worth of people who have paid their debts, making them more likely to return to their criminal lifestyle.
Your opinions are based on emotional reactions that are counterproductive and illogical. There is so much data on this subject from all over the world that the conclusions are not even worth arguing.
Posted by grampajack:
Good, they can get motivated while they spend 2/3 of their life behind bars. Career criminal are just that,,,, career criminals. Do they fear jail? No. Are we better off as a society when they are locked up? Yes. When they are in boot camp, earning their street cred, they aren't robbing or raping citizens. When they get out they'll pick up where they left off. They are scum.
Good for them. So they won't care when they don't get their rights back so why bother to give them back? Because they'll get a gun anyways? And you call my thoughts backwards? How about they get a few years tacked on when they go back for illegally carrying a handgun? Works for me!
Whatever, dude. See above. As you've said, they'll get one anyways so why make it legal? Your argument goes against itself.
So because ex-con Johnny can't legally own a gun or vote he'll just go back to his criminal life? Seriously? By your words he's going to go back anyways. So, which way is it? Gangsta Johnny, who just earned his street cred in boot camp now gets out with all his ribbons and since he can legally own a gun he now turns the straight and narrow? Yeah, my thinking is flawed like you say. Yours makes perfect sense. Yep, uh huh.
Just because you feel strongly about what you are saying doesn't make me and people who think like me wrong. It doesn't make you wrong either. As I said before, we can agree to disagree.
So don't bother arguing. It's falling on deaf ears because I don't think you are right. We can skew every poll and study out there to fit our own point of view. We just disagree and you won't change my mind and I won't change yours. You are entitled to your opinions but remember, they are your opinions. They mean nothing to me.
And that's the bottom line.Are we better off as a society when they are locked up? Yes.
I agree with this.I voted no as to all felons. I think each case and individual should be evaluated before any of the rights lost to a felony conviction are restored. Type of crime committed, whether violence or a gun was used in that crime, time spent and how a person has conducted their life since that conviction. This means there needs to be some length of time after the sentence/parole has been served before the restoring of those rights can be considered. IOWs, you just don't give a violent offender back his gun rights the day he walks outta jail.
CoalTrain49 said:I know several felons who are now living more or less normal lives. I wouldn't want either one of them being able to own or purchase a weapon. They can hire an attorney and file for a reinstatement of their rights. Let a judge decide based on how they managed their lives since release. If I were the judge I would say no to both of them, knowing what I know.
RX-79G said:I find it frustrating that some people's reaction to this kind of question is that every person who commits a criminal act should be locked up for the rest of their lives, because they can never be considered trustworthy after release.
All rights should be restored upon full completion of commitments. This includes and post-prison parol, probation, etc. If there is belief that this individual is still a violent criminal, they should not be released from prison. The prison system today is completely broken. I have no statistics to prove it, but my suspicion, based on anecdotal evidence, is that prisons are not in fact an effective reform mechanism. Prisons appear to be an all expenses paid scholarship to a post graduate school in criminal behavior. That problem needs to be fixed, and if it was, there would be a much greater likelihood that only reformed criminals were released and those with a propensity for violence would never be released (alive).