Thanks for the info, you have been my guide thru all this.
Question= I have lots of ONE SHOT for the Hornady sonic, can it be used in the
mix any way that you can think of? t is for shine & cleaning.
Should I buy a ss pin case cleaner or just my sonic?
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Thanks for the info, you have been my guide thru all this.
Question= I have lots of ONE SHOT for the Hornady sonic, can it be used in the
mix any way that you can think of? t is for shine & cleaning.
From Hornady's pin tumbler page:
Use in conjunction with Hornady® One Shot® Cartridge Case Solution.
(Link to Hornady pin tumbler page below).
https://www.hornady.com/reloading/case-care/tumblers-and-equipment
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Just one clarification...I'm assuming the above poster meant "media separator" as opposed to "use the same media tumbler as you would with dry". I'm sure nearly everyone using dry walnut/corncob media is using a vibratory tumbler which certainly will not work with wet tumbling and SS pins.
I previously used the Lemi/dishwashing soap routine, and it does work. Works pretty darn good!
Just seemed to me that, with my tap water, my 'routine', and perhaps not the optimum 'mix ratio' of Lemi/Dawn, that the FA cleaner was a tiny bit better, and easier to repeat.
FA cleaner costs about 50 cents a load. Not as inexpensive as Lemi/Dawn, but in the scope of things, it's not a huge amount extra.
Other tips for best results:
Don't overload.
Don't skimp on / use too much cleaning chemical.
Some folks have spotting if they leave water/solution drops on the cases/sun dry. Some don't.
Good idea to check each case for stuck pins at least until you are very confident that it's not an issue.
Part of my routine not previously mentioned:
My rinse procedure (after tumbling/before heading to the media separator) involves taking 1 lid off and setting the jug horizontal on it's side on the kitchen counter with the open end over Ma's sink. Using the sink sprayer, I 'flood out' the dirty water/solution and it's replaced with fresh tap water. Stand jug upright/rotate 180 degrees, lay back over. Repeat rinse. Tilt jug to get as much water out as possible (Be careful not to blast or dump the pins out in Ma's sink,, She get's a bit huffy when I do that!)
I dump about 1/2 the jug's contents (rinsed brass and pins) at a time into the media separator.
(I find this 'from the tumbler to the seperator' method to work best for me vs trying use the 'grates' provided by FA that fit on the ends of the jug.)
.
Just seemed to me that, with my tap water, my 'routine', and perhaps not the optimum 'mix ratio' of Lemi/Dawn, that the FA cleaner was a tiny bit better, and easier to repeat.
FA cleaner costs about 50 cents a load. Not as inexpensive as Lemi/Dawn, but in the scope of things, it's not a huge amount extra.
Other tips for best results:
Don't overload.
Don't skimp on / use too much cleaning chemical.
Some folks have spotting if they leave water/solution drops on the cases/sun dry. Some don't.
Good idea to check each case for stuck pins at least until you are very confident that it's not an issue.
Part of my routine not previously mentioned:
My rinse procedure (after tumbling/before heading to the media separator) involves taking 1 lid off and setting the jug horizontal on it's side on the kitchen counter with the open end over Ma's sink. Using the sink sprayer, I 'flood out' the dirty water/solution and it's replaced with fresh tap water. Stand jug upright/rotate 180 degrees, lay back over. Repeat rinse. Tilt jug to get as much water out as possible (Be careful not to blast or dump the pins out in Ma's sink,, She get's a bit huffy when I do that!)
I dump about 1/2 the jug's contents (rinsed brass and pins) at a time into the media separator.
(I find this 'from the tumbler to the seperator' method to work best for me vs trying use the 'grates' provided by FA that fit on the ends of the jug.)
.
My advice on the one shot aerosol case lube, buy a case puller first!
It cost me a 30-06 resizer first time I tried it. I got it with a reloading set I bought. Maybe
it has an expiration date, I don't really think so.
That's sound advise thanks.
That was the answer I needed Thanks a lot!
ray15
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The FA solution works well. I think it has a lot of citric acid in it, and find I can duplicate its performance if my acid concentration is high enough. I agree that unless you are tumbling a huge amount of brass the cost of the FA product isn't unreasonable, but at the same time I'm unsure if it's doing anything more than enforcing the choice of a stronger mix than many employ when concocting their own.
Although I've not tried it, I suspect you'd get excellent results with the FA solution even without the pins.
GBExpat
Member
For anyone wondering about using hard water ...
Since I got my F.A.R.T. in 2014 I have been using hot tap water (well water, hard water) and never experienced any issues like mineral spotting on the dry cases.
I use s/s pins+AAW&W+citric acid powder, spin-separate/-rinse/-"dry", partially-towel-dry and then spread the cases in cardboard flats overnight in front of a fan in the basement.
BTW, I deprime cases before cleaning.
I still have some cases that I processed & bagged 3 years ago ... no tarnish or spots.
As with many things in life, YMMV ...
FYI ...
Since I got my F.A.R.T. in 2014 I have been using hot tap water (well water, hard water) and never experienced any issues like mineral spotting on the dry cases.
I use s/s pins+AAW&W+citric acid powder, spin-separate/-rinse/-"dry", partially-towel-dry and then spread the cases in cardboard flats overnight in front of a fan in the basement.
BTW, I deprime cases before cleaning.
I still have some cases that I processed & bagged 3 years ago ... no tarnish or spots.
As with many things in life, YMMV ...
FYI ...
The FA solution works well. I think it has a lot of citric acid in it, and find I can duplicate its performance if my acid concentration is high enough. I agree that unless you are tumbling a huge amount of brass the cost of the FA product isn't unreasonable, but at the same time I'm unsure if it's doing anything more than enforcing the choice of a stronger mix than many employ when concocting their own.
I'll admit, I was a 'bit timid' with my use of the Lemi as I read posts about folk using 'too much' and discoloring their brass. Perhaps more Lemi / Citric Acid would have been beneficial, but in all honesty, I didn't see a HUGE / NIGHT AND DAY difference between my Lemi/Dawn 'dash and a squirt' method and other cleaners. (FA and another from a SS pin manufacture who's name eludes me at this moment) Just a small difference combined with the ease of use is what sold me. (One component + a dedicated shot glass. Fill to mark, dump, done.)
Although I've not tried it, I suspect you'd get excellent results with the FA solution even without the pins.
Tumbling w/o pins. That's another good point that doesn't come up a lot. With the HF Dual Drum, before I got my pins, I tumbled some with Lemi/Dawn solution only and it did a pretty darn nice job on the outsides that way. Not 'bad' on the insides, but not as clean as the outsides. Perhaps a stronger mix may have been better.
I'll admit, I was a 'bit timid' with my use of the Lemi as I read posts about folk using 'too much' and discoloring their brass. Perhaps more Lemi / Citric Acid would have been beneficial, but in all honesty, I didn't see a HUGE / NIGHT AND DAY difference between my Lemi/Dawn 'dash and a squirt' method and other cleaners. (FA and another from a SS pin manufacture who's name eludes me at this moment) Just a small difference combined with the ease of use is what sold me. (One component + a dedicated shot glass. Fill to mark, dump, done.)
Although I've not tried it, I suspect you'd get excellent results with the FA solution even without the pins.
Tumbling w/o pins. That's another good point that doesn't come up a lot. With the HF Dual Drum, before I got my pins, I tumbled some with Lemi/Dawn solution only and it did a pretty darn nice job on the outsides that way. Not 'bad' on the insides, but not as clean as the outsides. Perhaps a stronger mix may have been better.
ray15
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That's a good point. The quality of your rinse process is the biggest factor in spotting. If you don't get all your solution off the brass, it will spot as it dries. If you get it all off, the source of the water doesn't matter. The wax in the wash-and-wax helps reduce spotting, but getting the brass rinsed and towled thoroughly and quickly is vital to the best results.
ray15
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The soap from Guntap.com? I've tried it too. It's got some caustic stuff in it besides the citric acid, and is advertised as being a stand-alone solution. I did not find that to be the case, as some additional soap improved the solution's ability to carry dirt substantially. The Guntap stuff is hard on the skin - definitely wear gloves. Overall I like the Franklin Arsenal solution much better. For people that want great results easy, it's probably the best solution. It's my mile-wide OCD streak that compels me to figure out the identity of the best active ingredients as well as the proper proportions for myself.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Did you deprime them first?
You get nice clean primer pockets that way.
Glad it seems to be working well for you.I am still surprised how dirty the water comes out when doing a batch of what looks like pretty clean brass to start with.
For me not so much a cost issue for special cleaner as availability.
Wash+Wax and Citric acid at the grocery store, so nothing to order. The wash and wax helps prevent water spots, and seem to help prevent the brass from tarnishing.
Depending on water PH maybe a 9mm case of citric acid and 2 oz of wash and wax. (I don't measure wash and wax just put in a dollop from the jug)
I would say more wash and wax, a TB might be enough but it's cheap and within reason more seems to be better. If you want to measure maybe 4 TB.
I have never tried to find the minimum amount of wash and wax that will work,
I just dump some in form the jug and say ok good to go.
A tsp or two of citric sounds about right.
Err on the side of extra wash and wax and less acid.
If you use enough wash and wax you just need to rinse off the pins and they stay clean. Not enough and they will get dirty.
I won't worry about distilled water. I suppose "pure" water might result in less spotting but I don't have any spotting issue with wash and wax.
If I have any really really dirty brass (range pickups) I will do 2 passes.
1 for about 1/2 hour then dump the dirty water and do a quick flush with the hose then 1 more for an hour. Seldom required but if the brass is really dirty it helps.
Thought I would be clever and add some car wax (paste kind) to one batch for extra shine.
BAD BAD BAD idea! Everything covered with gray slime that was hard to remove, lots of 409 to clean up the brass, pins and drum-major PITA (almost just tossed the brass)
(Sort of have to laugh, I was expecting super shiny brass with the extra wax, opened it up when done and I was looking at a grey mess. Thinking what the bleep, tried washing it off with the hose, no luck more bleeps)
If you don't believe me that it's a BAD idea try it but don't say I didn't warn you.
I have never had an issue with to much wash and wax but I am sure it is possible.
I dump the brass in to the Lyman media tray (one has slots and one has a mesh screen to catch the pins, spray it with the hose, move the brass around with my hand so most pins fall onto the mesh tray then dump it into my Frankford rotary separator to get the rst of the pins out.
Dump on old towel, roll around and place out of the way someplace in the house to dry in the winter, outside in the sunshine when it's warm.
If it's safe in a plastic sonic cleaner one would think it would be ok in the plastic FART drum.
Since you have it I would give it a try.
Probably detergent and citric acid (what does the label say is in it?)
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Stew0576
Addicted
This may sound funny but i was wondering if i boiled my brass in a stainless kettle with citric acid and lemi/dawn would it work?
You are correct. Thank you.
I don’t see the edit option on my previous post. Hope it doesn’t confuse anyone.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Worth a try but I would't use the kettle for food items afterwards.
YEP!!! That's it!
Beyond the sample, I didn't try any more of that flavor. It seemed to work OK, but I also had a bunch a Lemi/Dawn I just bought at the time ,,,
The FA stuff came later as a sample with my FART tumbler,,,
I reckon if I could ever dial in that 'perfect for me' combination of Citric / soap / etc, I'd be content, but for now, I'm 'keeping it simple' !!!
A qt of the FA, as used by me, should do about ~32 gallons~ of brass. I have a long way to go before I'm even halfway there,,,
Thought I would be clever and add some car wax (paste kind) to one batch for extra shine.
OLE CHIT!!!!
LOL!!!! Thanks for sharing!!!
Over the years, I've tried all different kinds/types of wax's / sealants on cars, boats, airplanes and motorcycles,,,
With those experiences in mind, adding paste wax to a pin tumbler would not have been something that would ever have entered my mind!
(Might suggest it to a 'buddy' as a gag, but I'd probably stop him before he 'committed'!)
I can only imagine the mess you had,,,, =( (Was thinking mineral spirits might have helped 'break it down' a bit, but can't say for sure.)
We ALL make ~silly~ mistakes and I'm certain I've made more than my fair share!!!!
It's GOOD that we can look back / laugh about them! Might also keep someone else from doing the same!!!
Again, thanks for sharing!!!!
OLE CHIT!!!!
LOL!!!! Thanks for sharing!!!
Over the years, I've tried all different kinds/types of wax's / sealants on cars, boats, airplanes and motorcycles,,,
With those experiences in mind, adding paste wax to a pin tumbler would not have been something that would ever have entered my mind!
(Might suggest it to a 'buddy' as a gag, but I'd probably stop him before he 'committed'!)
I can only imagine the mess you had,,,, =( (Was thinking mineral spirits might have helped 'break it down' a bit, but can't say for sure.)
We ALL make ~silly~ mistakes and I'm certain I've made more than my fair share!!!!
It's GOOD that we can look back / laugh about them! Might also keep someone else from doing the same!!!
Again, thanks for sharing!!!!
I use 5lbs of GunTap stainless steel tumbling pins. Placed in RCBS tumbler. Place the brass inside with the pins. Fill tumble 3/4 full with water. Add 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon Lemishine and some Dawn dishwashing liquid. (Enough to make some suds seems to work for me. ) I tumble about 1 hour. Comes out looking like new. Then I spin the brass to seperate the pins. Then place a tray on top a towel, in oven 45 min to dry. Today I cleaned 40+ year old brass which look pretty sad. Tumbled 1-1/2 hrs. Came out looking again, like new. The GunTap pins are designed not to get stuck in the primer holes. I have never had an issue. Highly recommend these tumbler pins.
Another tip if using an oven as part of your drying process,,,,,
Extended intervals at higher temperatures can turn all that shiny brass into a dull color,,, similar to what you started with before tumbling,,,,
Doesn't hurt anything,,,,,,, But,,,,,, if you'd really like to keep your brass as shiny as possible after tumbling,,,,, Don't crank up the oven to 350, add the brass, get distracted, and forget it's in there,,,
Extended intervals at higher temperatures can turn all that shiny brass into a dull color,,, similar to what you started with before tumbling,,,,
Doesn't hurt anything,,,,,,, But,,,,,, if you'd really like to keep your brass as shiny as possible after tumbling,,,,, Don't crank up the oven to 350, add the brass, get distracted, and forget it's in there,,,
DRAINSMITH
Member
As I said before I run each piece of brass threw both the sonic cleaner and the FART so I make my own solution that I run through both.
The first thing I do is get a clean 5 gal bucket I then add the following.
Distilled water 3 gals.
Distilled white vinegar 1 gal.
Dawn dish soap 1 cup
Salt 1 cup
Lemi-Shine 1/8 cup
I then use a paint mixer on a drill. This is good for 1 refill for my sonic cleaner and my FART.
Now if you use this formula read your brass. If it comes out slightly pink cut down on Lemi-Shime. If the pockets are not perfect run a little longer. After the brass is run I run it through the media separator and pour the brass into a colander. I then dip them 3 times into another bucket with 3 gals. of regular water that has 1 cup of baking soda to neutralize the acids. Then 3 dips into another bucket full of distilled water that I will use for my next cleaning solution. After that, it is placed in my dehydrator. My brass comes out spot free and looks brand new. Now could I do this cheaper? Yes but I don't care. As I explained to my grandson if you don't do everything to the best of your ability, you might as well not do it at all.
The first thing I do is get a clean 5 gal bucket I then add the following.
Distilled water 3 gals.
Distilled white vinegar 1 gal.
Dawn dish soap 1 cup
Salt 1 cup
Lemi-Shine 1/8 cup
I then use a paint mixer on a drill. This is good for 1 refill for my sonic cleaner and my FART.
Now if you use this formula read your brass. If it comes out slightly pink cut down on Lemi-Shime. If the pockets are not perfect run a little longer. After the brass is run I run it through the media separator and pour the brass into a colander. I then dip them 3 times into another bucket with 3 gals. of regular water that has 1 cup of baking soda to neutralize the acids. Then 3 dips into another bucket full of distilled water that I will use for my next cleaning solution. After that, it is placed in my dehydrator. My brass comes out spot free and looks brand new. Now could I do this cheaper? Yes but I don't care. As I explained to my grandson if you don't do everything to the best of your ability, you might as well not do it at all.
ray15
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You should not be using anything like 350F to dry brass. You're nearly into annealing at that temperature. No more than 200F, and it will get darker in color at that temperature. For shiniest brass let it air dry after rinsing and towling thoroughly.Another tip if using an oven as part of your drying process,,,,,
Extended intervals at higher temperatures can turn all that shiny brass into a dull color,,, similar to what you started with before tumbling,,,,
Doesn't hurt anything,,,,,,, But,,,,,, if you'd really like to keep your brass as shiny as possible after tumbling,,,,, Don't crank up the oven to 350, add the brass, get distracted, and forget it's in there,,,
glc24
Member
I cleaned for 1.5 hours. Dried for same amount of time at 135 degrees. Awesome results! The pockets are as clean and shiny as the outside. What amazed me the most, was the inside of the case looks like the outside of the case. I never expected that. It'd be nice to be able to get a picture of that for sure.
I didn't have any pins get stuck in the primer holes, but I did have a single pin get lodged sideways in a primer pocket. If the Guntap pins are longer than .240, I'll change to those. If not, I'll just make do with the Frankford pins.
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glc24
Member
Thanks for that info. The added length is probably enough to keep them from getting lodged in the pocket.
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