Should I have paid?

[JohnBT]

"There was no setting up in front of the store attempting to steal a sale."

And yet stealing a sale was the likely outcome. Do you figure the customer had enough money to go inside buy a gun from the dealer after buying the first gun outside from the private seller?

John

 

[aeriedad]

And yet stealing a sale was the likely outcome. Do you figure the customer had enough money to go inside buy a gun from the dealer after buying the first gun outside from the private seller?

John

Did you even read the OP, John? The customer bought the gun from the owner at the minimum asking price for which it had been on consignment at the dealer's shop. The fact that the customer complained that he couldn't get the dealer to come down far enough on the price sure does make the dealer look like he was trying to cheat the owner. The gun was sold AFTER the consignment contract ended and AFTER the dealer and customer had concluded their business. As long as the sale was done outside, I say good for the OP. Two of the three persons in this story got what they wanted: the owner sold the gun for his minimum price (which was all he could expect if the dealer had sold the gun on consignment, regardless of the actual selling price), and the customer purchased the gun for less than what the dealer was trying to sell it for. The dealer could have earned a commission, but it seems he figured he could sell the gun for more to someone else.

In any case, the customer wasn't looking to buy another gun from the dealer. He wanted the gun that the owner had just taken off consignment. He went to the dealer to buy THAT gun, but the dealer failed to close the deal. What in the OP makes you think the customer wanted anything else?

 

[Mike1234567]

Did you even read the OP, John? The customer bought the gun from the owner at the minimum asking price for which it had been on consignment at the dealer's shop. The fact that the customer complained that he couldn't get the dealer to come down far enough on the price sure does make the dealer look like he was trying to cheat the owner. The gun was sold AFTER the consignment contract ended and AFTER the dealer and customer had concluded their business. As long as the sale was done outside, I say good for the OP. Two of the three persons in this story got what they wanted: the owner sold the gun for his minimum price (which was all he could expect if the dealer had sold the gun on consignment, regardless of the actual selling price), and the customer purchased the gun for less than what the dealer was trying to sell it for. The dealer could have earned a commission, but it seems he figured he could sell the gun for more to someone else.

In any case, the customer wasn't looking to buy another gun from the dealer. He wanted the gun that the owner had just taken off consignment. He went to the dealer to buy THAT gun, but the dealer failed to close the deal. What in the OP makes you think the customer wanted anything else?

Did you even read the OP, aeriedad? The deal took place inside the store and was closed right outside the store. This situation is NOT cut-and-dried!!

 

[aeriedad]

Did you even read the OP, aeriedad? The deal took place inside the store and was closed right outside the store. This situation is NOT cut-and-dried!!

As I was walking out the front of the store ,a customer who was leaving asked me if I was still selling the rifle. I told him yes and a deal was struck...outside of the store of course.

Cut-and-dried enough for me.

 

[Mike1234567]

aeriedad... So far, I've seen no "cut-and-dried" evidence. Please post the REAL "cut-and-dried" evidence you've seen. If you were a "juror" hearing "evidence" about my case I'd be "afraid" of you if I had a cheap lawyer.

ETA: I've posted more than once that I would NOT trust the consignor and I definitely do NOT...

Yet, although I've posted my doubts, I've not posted anything PUSHING my opinion on anyone...

THAT'S the difference between what we've posted.

 

[aeriedad]

Mike,

It's not a court case. If the dealer thinks he can win in court, he should file a suit.

On saturday you basically agreed that the deal was struck outside the store: "After all, a deal was struck right outside his door with someone who had already been inquiring about the gun."

This is getting petty, so...

 

[Mike1234567]

aeriedad... that was before the OP added more information. When full disclosure ensues so do our opinions change. Ever serve on a jury?

We're in quasi-court here...

 

[aeriedad]

Mike,

Yes, I've served on a jury. It was nothing like this. Neither you or I personally witnessed anything we're discussing; there is no sworn evidence, no sworn testimony, no judge, no attorneys, no bailiff, and I don't have to leave my 1911 in the car before heading into the federal courthouse. All we have here is the story as told by the OP. I would ask what point you're trying to make, but I figure you would just confuse me further.

We could go on like this all night...you will always be right, and I have no idea what I'm talking about. But no, I think I'll pass.

 

[Mike1234567]

Mike,

Yes, I've served on a jury. It was nothing like this. Neither you or I personally witnessed anything we're discussing; there is no sworn evidence, no sworn testimony, no judge, no attorneys, no bailiff, and I don't have to leave my 1911 in the car before heading into the federal courthouse. All we have here is the story as told by the OP. I would ask what point you're trying to make, but I figure you would just confuse me further.

We could go on like this all night...you will always be right, and I have no idea what I'm talking about. But no, I think I'll pass.

aeriedad... So, then, why did you write, "Cut-and-dried enough for me", in post #104?

 

[aeriedad]

aeriedad... So, then, why did you write, "Cut-and-dried enough for me", in post #104?

Because this IS NOT COURT, and we ARE NOT ON JURY DUTY. It's an online forum. We're not sending anyone to prison or awarding huge sums of money. We're answering the question posed by the OP. From what we can tell of the situation, the OP's case is pretty clear. Apparently you disagree and want to make a court case out of it. What am I missing?

 

[Redlg155]

Since I am the original poster and now relagated to the role of "defendant", I will ask the following.
To those who believed that the dealer was owed a commission...
1. Would the dealer be in conflict with Federal Laws by accepting money from a gun sale, that by his own admission, he believed he was owed? No paperwork was done as this was a private sale. However, dealer participation requires documentation.

2. Would you have returned the gun to the dealer, after you had just paid for the background check and completed the paperwork and demand that he now sell for the price you initially instructed him to do so?

3. How would you suggest the dealer truthfully document the commission money without stating that that the money was from proceeds of a gun sale?

 

[MachIVshooter]

Would you have returned the gun to the dealer, after you had just paid for the background check and completed the paperwork and demand that he now sell for the price you initially instructed him to do so?

He charged you for a BG check on your own gun???

Man, based on the previous stuff, I'd never set foot in that store again, and I'd make sure none of my friends did either. This is just icing on the cake.

Shops around here that engaged in similar practices disappeared. In the age of internet sales, it's all about smiles and keeping the customer happy. FFL's who don't get that are doomed.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Dude, do the Florida guys a favor and say the shops name
cause in the day of internet sales, I would have informed him of where to place his lips WAY before it came to this (as in, do you want me to complain to the BBB or the cops first on the 'trade' he did on your consignment)

Tell him open his books, and ask him if he is ready for your complaints to the ATF inspectors, as I doubt his books are 100% if he is playing these games.

 

[45bthompson]

I like your style shadow. I highly doubt he would want the BATFE up his tailpipe over a measly commission. If the guy is breaking laws he really should be looked into. The last thing anybody needs is a dishonest crooked gun dealer in their neighborhood. It just feeds the fire for the anti's.

 

[Shadow 7D]

OH
But don't forget
he may not be all that crooked, he maybe friend of the ATF...
in which case, watch out for the FBI when they come to ask why your gun is involved in a Mexican drug gang hit....

 

[Loosedhorse]

And yet stealing a sale was the likely outcome.

John, you seem unfamiliar with the concept of a "windfall."

One of my neighbors fruit trees' branches over-hangs my property line. That fruit is his; if I pick it, I have stolen.

However, if the wind blows, and the fruit drops on my property, it is mine.

If he's there at the gunshop for other purposes (retrieving his gun from consignment), and the wind blows...

No stolen sale. It just dropped in his lap.

 

[aeriedad]

^^ +1

 

[JohnBT]

Did I read the first post? Yes.

"As I was walking out the front of the store ,a customer who was leaving asked me if I was still selling the rifle."

It still sounds to me like the customer saw the OP take back his gun and followed him out. He asked the OP if he was selling the rifle, didn't he? If the OP said "No" then the customer could have gone back inside and bought something. But we'll never know.

All I can say is that I would have paid the dealer something.

John

 

[Loosedhorse]

It still sounds to me like the customer saw the OP take back his gun and followed him out.

If you feel the buyer was a bad actor, then he, not the OP, might* owe the shop-owner a commission. But the buyer's bad intention does not place an obligation on the OP.

*I still think the buyer wouldn't owe a commission: the dealer had his chance to close a deal, and failed. The buyer had no knowledge that the OP would arrive when he did, and so the opportunity for sale fell in his lap, too.

 

[aeriedad]

Did I read the first post? Yes.

"As I was walking out the front of the store ,a customer who was leaving asked me if I was still selling the rifle."

It still sounds to me like the customer saw the OP take back his gun and followed him out. He asked the OP if he was selling the rifle, didn't he? If the OP said "No" then the customer could have gone back inside and bought something. But we'll never know.

All I can say is that I would have paid the dealer something.

John

Yes, but the owner, who had just taken the gun off consignment, didn't go to the store with the purpose of selling to one of the dealer's other customers. It was the dealer's misfortune that he couldn't close the deal with the customer (for a higher price, it seems) before the owner retrieved his property.

I notice your quote from the original post conveniently leaves out the part where he tells us "I told him yes and a deal was struck...outside of the store of course."

I can't find a single aspect of the original post that indicates "stealing a sale was the likely outcome." What in the OP makes you think the customer was looking to purchase any other gun from the dealer?

 

[Bubbles]

The amount sold for was my lowest price price that I informed the dealer that I would take...

Just an FYI, the dealer could have never sold the gun at that price. The lowest he could go would be the OP's price + his consignment fee (anywhere from 10-33% depending on the dealer). Also, the customer will pay sales tax on consignments purchased from a dealer, or he'll pay shipping and auction fees (they're rolled into the price) if the dealer had it listed on GunBroker or AuctionArms.

The dealer could very well have had the gun marked as low as he could go and still not be able to make the sale depending on what the OP wanted out of it.

 

[gym]

If he screwed you 6 times in the past, don't give him anything, But you should have stopped doing business with him after you found out he screwed you the first time

 

[SSN Vet]

this topic comes up so often... I find it dumbfounding...

no wonder gun store owners are so often grumpy jerks... when every body and their brother thinks it's o.k. to conduct their private gun sales, sans commision, on the gun store property...

if I ever have the misfortune of running a gun store for a living, I'll post a sign in 10' letters stating "no private sales of any kind on my property" right next to the "no I won't match the lowest price found on Gunbroker.com"

 

[Panzercat]

this topic comes up so often... I find it dumbfounding... no wonder gun store owners are so often grumpy jerks... when every body and their brother thinks it's o.k. to conduct their private gun sales, sans commision, on the gun store property...

if I ever have the misfortune of running a gun store for a living...

And we'll all make sure to avoid your shop like the plague.

If an owner isn't bright enough to let one go in favor of the guy who has demonstrated repeat business with him, then his ability to do business is probably failing in other areas as well.

 

[Loosedhorse]

[double post]