Should I? Possible USFA purchase

[ACP]

Okay, here's the deal...

At a local shop, there is a barely used USFA Single Action, 5+1/2" barrel, .45 Colt, black powder frame, case colored hammer and frame, two piece walnut grips (can't tell if they are standard grade or extra fancy; they look real nice), bullseye style ejector rod. I would rate this revolver 98-99%, except for two small problems I note below.

The price? $675, cash, out the door.

The down side?

1) no box or papers. Would USFA provide me with a proper SAA box and velvet storage bag, even at a nominal cost??

2) where the grips meet the inside of the grip frame, there are some pieces of wood missing, almost like some big slivers have come out. It's difficult to explain. I didn't notice it the first time I handled the piece. It's small enough where you can't feel it while gripping the revolver, but it is visible when you turn it over. I'm thinking some expoxy fill, or wood fill, would do the trick. Or maybe USFA would cut me a deal on new grips, or simply replace them for free? Anyone have any experience with their service dept.?

So, would you buy it?

 

[StrikeEagle]

So, would you buy it?

YES!! I sure would. Assuming it's tight and clean and there are no quirks beyond what you mentioned, I sure would.

I LOVE the SA's that USFA is making. I have one in .38 Spl and let me tell you, it's a real shooter. I can make ragged one hole groups with it at 7 - 8 yards. This is a first-class piece of work in every respect. It's AT LEAST as good as my Colt 2nd Gen SAA's and better than my 3rd Gen.

http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/single-action-revolver.asp

I feel pretty sure they'll send you a box and papers... but call them, they are really nice. Ask 'em your questions. They're gun people, not bean counters.

Phone: (877) 227-6901. Email: [email protected]

StrikeEagle

 

[ACP]

Strike Eagle, thanks for the vote of confidence. I believe I'm headed down there tomorrow morning cash in hand to give it another hard look...

 

[Standing Wolf]

I'd buy it. Boxes and papers are of value only when you go to sell the gun; the rest of the time, they just take up storage space. Stocks can always be replaced.

We expect pictures, by the way.

 

[ACP]

Thanks for the feedback but that purchase is now on permanent "hold." I took a closer look at the barrel -- it's made by Uberti, which tells me this is a very early USFA. I'd like an all-American one. The grips were also problemental; dealer told me previous owner likely buggered them trying to get them off -- they are one piece walnut. This was probably a $1,400 gun at one time...

 

[Standing Wolf]

I took a closer look at the barrel -- it's made by Uberti, which tells me this is a very early USFA.

Sad! I've looked at a couple U.S.F.A. revolvers with Italian parts. One owner admitted it was a dog, and one gun dealer admitted the one on his shelf was a dog.

$1,400 will buy a new one made in the old Colt factory with some of, although not all the trimmings.

 

[Old Fuff]

All of the USFA revolvers were and are still made with Uberti parts, and I have yet to see one that was a... dog. I would see if the dealer might come down a bit, and if he did I would rebarrel it with one made by Colt and replace the grips. Given the price of a new gun (USFA or Colt) I would come out way ahead.

 

[StrikeEagle]

All of the USFA revolvers were and are still made with Uberti parts

Fuff, are you certain of that? I'm pretty sure that USFA guns started years ago being built from Uberti parts, but now they are 100% USA parts.

Not so?

StrikeEagle

 

[Old Fuff]

It depends on how you define "U.S.A. parts." As I understand it they are machining some, if not all of the parts, but raw forgings (if they use them) or investment castings are still made overseas.

There is nothing wrong with this, and I think they have some of the highest quality in the business. But Uberti has also always turned out a good product, although the materials in some parts wasn't up to Colt standards. Uberti is now part of Beretta, which has poured big money into new tooling to make what was good even better.

Anyway, if I got a chance to buy an older USFA revolver for under... say $625.00 I would (1) go shoot it and see how well it did, and (2) possibly consider putting a Colt barrel on it - or for that matter, a new USFA one. Add in some decent stocks and I'd still be under $750.00. A new USFA revolver at $1,400.00 might be better, but would it be "that much better?"

And no, I'm not knocking what may be the best single action on today's market. If you have a spare $1,400.00 to spend this would be a good place too do it.

 

[ACP]

Just came back from another shop looking at the USFA Pre-War. Darn, that is a fine looking revolver! Price pretty steep, though -- around $1,300. And no wood stocks, which I prefer. Guess I could order one, but it would be significantly more than the $950 in cash I have right now.

BTW, all the USFA Rodeos I saw magically went up $100 at the start of the New Year, to $599.

And I took another quick look today at that USFA with the nicked grips; even with the Uberti barrel and nicked grips, it is beautiful. Nearly everything I am looking for: beautiful case coloring on frame AND hammer, 5+1/2" barrel, black powder frame, bullseye ejector rod, one-pice walnut grips, great price.

Maybe I will just close my eyes and ignore the Uberti barrel. I mean, what difference could it really make? And this is to be, ultimately, a woods gun/fun gun that I can pass along to my son/daughter along with everything else I own...

 

[StrikeEagle]

I really love USFA revolvers. Taffin in his new book, Sixguns, says that they are as good or BETTER than First Gen Colts!

The Uberti marked barrel wouldn't bother me a bit at the price you're talking. And of course you 'could' send it off to USFA for a new barrel at any point down the road... though I wouldn't, specially if you find it shoots uncommonly well.

Decisions, decisions... what a great way to start the New Year!

StrikeEagle

 

[Old Fuff]

ACP:

Maybe I will just close my eyes and ignore the Uberti barrel. I mean, what difference could it really make? And this is to be, ultimately, a woods gun/fun gun that I can pass along to my son/daughter along with everything else I own...

Just 'cuz I like you... Send me the gun, and I'll use my bench grinder to remove the Uberti marking.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Maybe I will just close my eyes and ignore the Uberti barrel. I mean, what difference could it really make? And this is to be, ultimately, a woods gun/fun gun that I can pass along to my son/daughter along with everything else I own...

I would consider that. I am partial to Cimarron SAA's and they also use Uberti parts for everything. It's the final assembly, fit and finish that you want to be done well, regardless of who makes the initial casting or forging.

 

[ACP]

Old Fuff, you are a gentleman, but I must decline your kind offer!

I'm going to go back for yet ANOTHER look. Good thing I'm on good terms with the staff there (one of the part-timers is president of my gun club).

I'll keep you posted. If I buy it, I will post pics immediately.

 

[Old Fuff]

O.K., I'll settle for a picture... Good luck.

 

[El Rocoso]

USFAs of recent manufacture are not made with foreign castings or foreign forged unfinished parts. All parts are US made, finished, and assembled. If someone actually has proof to the contrary, they should most certainly report it as USFAs advertising would be misleading and untruthful. On the other hand, I happen to like the Cimarron/Ubertis quite well. I own and shoot both USFAs and Cimarrons and while the USFAs are tighter and smoother, the Cimarrons shoot very well, indeed.

 

[ACP]

UPDATE!

Okay... I passed on the $675 deal. The gun is marked "U.S. Patent Firearms," meaning it is an all-Uberti gun. I've heard enough about bad springs, hands and so-so frames and barrels to make me spend my money elsewhere.

Which leads me to the following deal I cut today (with the pres. of my gun club behind the cash register... ):

1. USFA Rodeo, .45 Colt, 5+1/2" barrel, cross-pin frame (of course), color case hardened hammer (yes!), hard rubber grips, LNIB w/box, $411 OUT THE DOOR. Holy smokes. I think I did okay! I'm picking it up Friday or Saturday. Pics to follow. BTW, the black/bluing is fading to a gray/blue, almost like the "Armory Blue" military polish USFA uses on the Pre-War and Nettleton. Very nice.

2. A NIB Ruger 77/22, walnut/blue, ANOTHER $411 OTD.

So, both guns for $822 cash (which I have). When I buy a scope for the 77/22 from their shop they will mount it and boresight it for free. Something for me to "relax" with.

Next on the agenda -- a call to Doug Donnelly for a tour of the factory (next town over from me) and some USFA two-piece walnut grips for the Rodeo (I crave the wood). To be followed by a nice SAA leather rig.

Hmm, maybe SASS is in my future...

Thanks all for your input. Much appreciated from a wise and friendly group!

 

[Old Fuff]

Well you could have done a lot worse...

 

[StrikeEagle]

You'll be pleased. USFA revolvers are pretty special.

BTW, I have a 77-22 as well... it's been giving me full satisfaction!

And thanks for sharing the fun with us!

StrikeEagle

 

[Pilot]

I think that's a pretty good deal on the Rodeo. I bought mine about 6 months ago for $450 N.I.B. Its a great shooter and a high quality SAA clone. Prices seem to be going up on the Rodeos.

 

[ACP]

Right, prices on the Rodeos went up $100 on January 1 -- that's a 20 percent increase. I guess they haven't had a price hike in 3 or 4 years, and USFA is now in a new building (not under the Blue Dome anymore, just down the street a ways), and they are investing in new equipment and expanding their product line... so ... I guess it's not unreasonable. Plus, I like stuff made in the USA. So more power to them.

This Rodeo has the case-colored hammer, which is a $110 option. Figure $599NIB in 2006, plus $110 for hammer = $709 ($751 tax included).

I got it for $387.50 + sales tax ($411 out the door), or 55 percent the cost of a new one.

 

[Father Knows Best]

It depends on how you define "U.S.A. parts." As I understand it they are machining some, if not all of the parts, but raw forgings (if they use them) or investment castings are still made overseas.

Old Fuff, you are 100% wrong about this. If you doubt me, call USFA yourself. When USFA first started making SAA replicas, it did import SOME parts from Italy. Those parts were finished and assembled in the U.S. Since 2002 or early 2003, however, every USFA SAA revolver has been made entirely in the U.S. from U.S. made parts. When I last spoke with Geno at USFA in early 2004, they were making everything but the barrels in-house, and the barrels were being sourced from a U.S. company (in West Virginia, IIRC). This means that parts are being CNC machined from bar stock right here in the U.S.A. Nothing is imported from Italy or anywhere else outside the U.S.

 

[ArmedBear]

When you a-talka to a-Geeh-no atta US-ah-fire-armsa, he tella you datta none-a ofa da partsa comes-a fromma I-taly.

Back on topic, though...

There's nothing wrong with Uberti's guns.

While I shot BP revolvers as a kid, I was hardly a connoisseur, so I can't speak for the stuff they made in the '70s, but I have an ancient Dixie Remington replica from a lesser Italian maker of unknown identity (ASM maybe), and it shoots nice little groups. The moving parts aren't hardened right, and the springs are crappy, but the frame and barrel are fine.

The Ubertis then were a good deal better, and more recent ones are great.

I currently have two recent Ubertis, a Remington and a Colt Clone (cheapest variant), and they shoot great. The cheap SAA needs a trigger job, but is otherwise top-notch.

So... The real question is whether this gun is really worth $675 to you. It wouldn't be to me, because a brand-new Cimarron Evil Roy (Uberti SAA with improved fixed sights and reworked match-grade innards) can be had for $600 in the right places. A Cimarron Model P Uberti SAA is a good deal less, and quite nice.

An all-US-made USFA would be a different story, though I think most top CAS competitors shoot Rugers and Ubertis. The chance to own a US USFA for $675 would be too tempting, though.

 

[Old Fuff]

When you a-talka to a-Geeh-no atta US-ah-fire-armsa, he tella you datta none-a ofa da partsa comes-a fromma I-taly.

When you see him ask him EXACTLY where do the parts come from? I don't think they do in-house investment castings or forging...

 

[Father Knows Best]

When you see him ask him EXACTLY where do the parts come from? I don't think they do in-house investment castings or forging...

I asked him exactly that question two years ago, because I was considering buying a USFA (used) and heard the same sort of B.S. you are repeating here. He assured me that USFA buys NO PARTS from Uberti or any other Italian supplier -- that every gun they produce is 100% U.S. made with parts manufactured entirely in-house or sourced from U.S. companies. He specifically mentioned the barrels are the one part that is purchased from a U.S. supplier. That hasn't always been the case, but it is definitely true of guns manufactured since 2003.

USFA moved into a new factory in early 2004. You can see extensive pictures and videos at the USFA website here: http://www.usfirearms.com/pages/usfafactory.asp

Note the large CNC machines. My understanding is that USFA frames, cylinders and lockwork are CNC machined from U.S.-made steel.

USFA advertises its products as "100% U.S. made." If you doubt it, I suggest you call the company. In the meantime, you're spreading false information that is at best dated, and is at worst part of a malicious attempt by USFA's competitors to discredit it.