Should off duty cops be subject to the same gun laws as the rest of us?

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Don't these people have an equal right to protect themselves?
There is no right involved as far as police carrying firearms. Police carry firearms as a result of their employment. Because that employment happens to be with the government, they are afforded a perk off duty others do not get, but never confuse this perk as a right.

In some respects it is like the employee discount some people get where they work. Is it unfair to those who do not work there that employees get a discount?
 
IMO, A civilian is someone who is NOT in the Military. Following that reasoning, a cop is a civilian,period. The laws governing the rest of us should apply to cops as well, ie;NO off duty carry! (Until EVERYONE else can do it who is legally able)
 
IMO, A civilian is someone who is NOT in the Military.

And I would've said a civilian is somebody not employed by a government...

However, the dictionary defines it as "a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization", among other things.

Guess that shows what opinions are worth.


J.C.
 
I am a sworn officer and support the right to carry for all who have not been convicted of violent crime or have been found to be mentally incompetent.

Having said that, I carry off duty. I carry off duty not because I'm a special person superman looking to fight crime and corruption 24/7. I carry for the same reason Y'all carry. To protect myself and my family. I have many occassion to meet ex "clients" while off duty with my family in public places. Even though I can turn off the job when I'm off duty, the ex 'clients" don't and wont unless they realize that I am carrying. Their assumption that I carry 24/7 because I'm a cop is the deterrent that I count on to keep them away from me when they see me. Most of the time it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Something you probably don't realize is I hate carrying a gun off duty. This 54 year old cop has 33 years of toting a gun around and quite frankly my aching back and arthritic hips would much rather leave that gun at home, but I don't. I can't. Too many ex "clients" out there waiting to get even.

With all due respect to your right to keep and bear arms, you all choose to carry in case you will ever need to protect yourselves or your families. The off duty officer carries because it is not a matter of if but a matter of when. If the bad guys thought we were restricted in our ability to protect ourselves at the end of the shift, they would be alot more aggresive in their revenge. Although I don't think I am better than you, I sincerely believe I am at greater risk than the average gun carrying citizen. You may think our off duty carry is a privelege, Most cops see it as a burden.

Just my 2 cents, I'll go back to lurking in the background and enjoying the rest of your posts quietly.
 
Zundfolge said:
ON Duty cops should be subject to the same gun laws as the rest of us too ... they don't become a different person when they're on the clock than they are off the clock.

Bravo!

Of course the number of laws that restrict which guns we all can carry and where and when we can carry them should be exactly zero. "Shall not be infringed," means exactly that.
 
I think a better way to state the question is "Should ordinary citizens not be allowed the same rights given to law enforcement officers." I have always felt that I should be able to own anything a law enforcement officer could own and since I went to the trouble to obtain a carry permit I should be allowed to carry my gun anywhere a police officer could carry his gun.
 
"I really don't know how things are in your neck of the woods, but around here full time officers are paid quite well."

As a LEO in NEPA, I'd like to find out what you consider "paid quite well".
 
As a LEO in NEPA, I'd like to find out what you consider "paid quite well".

Salary info from Philadelphia police recruitment website:
The current yearly salary for a Police Officer Recruit in the Police Academy is $38,481 ($1,474.37 bi-weekly). After graduating the academy as a Police Officer, you receive a pay increase to $41,151 ($1,576.67 bi-weekly). There are scheduled increases in pay to the present maximum of $53,444 a year

Allentown, Pa police salaries, from the city HR website:
STARTING SALARY: $40,014 PER YEAR (BASE + HOLIDAY)

I consider that being paid well. Those figures are a bit above most of the private sector jobs in this area (although I'll admit don't know what private sector jobs would be comparable).
 
Define "off duty." In my state, police officers are sworn officers 24/7 and are (I believe) required to carry at all times. They do not stop being police officers at the end of the shift.
 
ilbob said:
There is no right involved as far as police carrying firearms. Police carry firearms as a result of their employment. Because that employment happens to be with the government, they are afforded a perk off duty others do not get, but never confuse this perk as a right.

In some respects it is like the employee discount some people get where they work. Is it unfair to those who do not work there that employees get a discount?

I am sorry but I do not consider the Second Amendment a "perk" for the few...:barf:
 
i don't think cops have the leisurey of forgeting their oath to protect the public while their off duty.

the only reason i'm on this site is because i own 9 restaurants. we have a robbery every year and i almost got mugged. my employees are happy that i have my CHL. even though, they have never seen my gun. i should let them see it. because most robberys are an inside job. otherwise, i'd own no guns.
 
cops have to be more observant than civilians. they have to sit in restaurants with view of all entrances.
 
Hmmm, since the OP brought up the Wisconsin tragedy, I do wonder about the whole age thing, since this kid was 20 yo, and most states, and AFAIK it's a federal thing right, where you can't own, or possess a handgun until 21?

I'm sure a lot of young bucks would say they are responsible and can handle it at 20 just as well as 21, and some would say you can join the military and have guns at 18 etc.

I'm just pointing out there are some mixed messages here. As for the military, yes you can join as do as they say, and they do have some restrictions on what you carry and where, when off duty, no matter the age, but I can't help but think some of the military's restrictions on when and where you can have firearms on base for example may stem from their concern for the predominently younger recruits running around, don't you think?

For me, a law enforcement officer interacting w/ the public here in the US on a day-to-day could be considered a different role w/ different concerns than a military personnel w/ typically more of a restricted environment, only sent into do a job involving force when necessary.

I'm not saying that I know what's right or wrong, or implying this is a black-and-white / crystal clear issue, I'm just saying it makes me think. I wonder how old you have to be in WI, or most locals, to join the local PD or Sheriff's office and legally be allowed to carry in public? I guess I always assumed it would be 21 to have a gun toting job, but I guess not.

So with that said, that I do have questions about when you get to be a cop toting a gun out there, I would have to say that I then question the ability of any other citizen being able to get a handgun legally, and/or carry it. Like if they can do it at 20, why can't we? But on either count, I think some thought should go into the age and other procedure requirements for younger folks to carry.

Generally, I'm of the opinion that LEOs should obviously be able to carry off duty, as they're never really off duty, at least we don't want them to be, since we rely on them to protect and serve if they see a need.

However, I believe legal adult citizens should also be allowed to carry in just as many places, at any time as well, to at least protect ourselves, if we're not happening to be standing next to an LEO when the SHTF. Like in NC or SC, you can't carry to pick up your kid at school, or go to a restaurant w/ your family if the establishment happens to sell alcohol for consumption on premises.

Just this past week, a disgruntled employee came back to a restaurant nearby in Charlotte, and gunned down two former co-workers/bosses, after recently losing his job. He pointed the gun at other customers, but as far as I know, noone else was hit. Fortunatlely, a nearby Sheriff leading a funeral procession was flagged down by someone in a neighboring business, and other 1st responders were also quick on the scene, and the guy was taken into custody before anyone else was hurt. But I'm sure you can imagine, this could have been far worse. It irritates me that a law abiding citizen w/ a legal permit could not carry there legally, since they served beer, but any nut job can surely walk in planning to commit murder, since we all know the sign doesn't stop a criminal.

http://www.charlotte.com/local/story/307673.html There's the link to one of the stories about the incident.

I don't know, I think if I was an owner or manager of any business dealing w/ the public and sketchy employees, especially after having to have one of said employees escorted out by police when he was fired, I would likely carry to work. In NC, the owner or permission of the owner, will let a legal CWP holder carry on premises, despite the alcohol sales, but not the customers.

My condolences to the families of the victims of both of these tragedies. To the OP, I believe people should have rights similar to LEOs, and have less restrictions, LEOs certainly should have right to carry off duty, but I do wonder about the qualification process and age requirements to become an LEO, not saying I have a definite opinion on that one yet, but just thinking out loud...

Karz
 
I don't know where some of these posts are coming from; my agency's rules PREVENT me from carrying what I want. When I retire I will have MORE freedom in what I carry.
 
I am sorry but I do not consider the Second Amendment a "perk" for the few
You obviously did not read my post. The 2A has zero to do with this particular perk. You need to stop thinking that LE carry of firearms has anything even remotely to do with the 2A or any kind of right, because there is no connection. LE carries firearms solely because of their employment. Their employment status gives them an extra perk, but it is not a right.

When a cop talks about his "right to carry" as an off duty cop, he is misuing the English language. He is not talking about a right, but a perk, not much different than the employee discount WalMart extends to its employees.
 
but around here full time officers are paid quite well
There seems to be no shortage of qualified applicants signing up for cop jobs around here. That would seem to indicate the pay and benefits are adequate. Keep in mind that most cops can retire after 20 years with a really decent, cost of living adjusted pension, backed not by a rickety pension plan but the full armed might of the state. Further, virtually all public employee benefit plans are far superior to private sector plans.
 
I don't know where some of these posts are coming from; my agency's rules PREVENT me from carrying what I want. When I retire I will have MORE freedom in what I carry.
But in the meantime your agency will take the heat if you shoot someone off duty. It does not seem unreasonable for them to have an interest in what you are carrying off duty.
 
They are subject to the same gun laws as we are.We are not LEO's and don't qualify for their parts of the gun laws.A crime is a crime and it doesn't matter who commits it.Cops are subject to the same human traits as everybody else.Their specific training and hopefully the pre employment screening process weeds out the likely problems. Unfortunately no one can piss you off like a woman when she is trying and this cop cracked and crumbled.Things didn't need to go the way they did, but it's water under the bridge now.
 
Yes.

Police officers should definately be subject to the same regulations and limitations as everyone else. You're a cop and dont like it? Do like the rest of us and start lobbying your local and state government to change the laws.
 
ilbob
"Keep in mind that most cops can retire after 20 years with a really decent, cost of living adjusted pension, backed not by a rickety pension plan but the full armed might of the state."


You're kidding right... What basis do you have for making this statement? Sounds like someone is throwing out blanket statements with no foundation.
 
In SC, retirement for law enforcement is after 25 years instead of 28 for all other state employees. The state does put more into the retirement plan than the officers do which is good since most LEOs here are underpaid.
 
.

The police should be subject to the same laws as the citizens on duty or not.

Your feelings may differ, but after all the rhetoric, this post from the first page shines through.
 
Well as with many jobs, some police officers cannot just let go and leave work at work. I for one always carry. If I leave the house I'm armed. I would rather carry every single day and never need to unholster and draw down on someone than to need a gun to protect myself or someone else and not have one with me.
 
The thing that keeps getting me is all these people that are mistaking "privilege" for "requirement of the job".

Too many times I've been driving down the road in my personal vehicle, and got a call on the cell phone saying "Officer needs assistance at ______ address", or heard a call on the police radio ( Yes, 99% of the officers here have a police band radio in their POV, paid for with their own money. ) requesting any officer in the area to assist with a call.

In those situations, it won't do to have to go by the house or the station and pick up a weapon. And you're certainly not much good without one, if things have gotten bad enough for dispatch to make such a call.

Granted, this kind of thing probably happens more often in a small town like mine than a large city, but I'm sure it happens even there.



J.C.
 
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