Should S&W bring back 3rd gen pistols?

[starling]

Picture of the 459 trials gun here.

Collectible Firearms for Serious Gun Collectors

Rock Island Auction holds over 12 gun auctions per year. We buy & sell collectible firearms for serious gun collectors, including antique firearms & military arms. Click now to start selling your guns & investing in collectables today.

www.rockislandauction.com

 

[W.E.G.]

And some 915's FTW!

 

[Riomouse911]

The trigger parts ARE 1911 parts, that's a 100 year plus design.
The rest of the gun is a CZ 75, that's a pretty old design as well. The only new thing about it, is combining the two together.

But you completely missed my point, people are willing to spend 2K and more on pistols.
The popularity of Staccato went through the roof in last 2-3 years and they start at 2.5k.
My local dealer sells about 5 Altas gunworks 2011 a month, those are 6 to 7 k.
So IMO the whole it's too costly is kinda moot.

As I said before, a plain Jane 3rd gen....nope.
But update the thing, higher mag capacity, unstupidify the whole trigger/action, gear it towards competition, price it at 1500 to 2000 and people will buy it.
They'll buy it just like the dwx, tso, beretta performance, staccato etc.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I feel that I did not miss the point. The point wasn’t Germaine to the question as it is an apples and oranges comparison.

The question was, should S&W reintroduce the gen 3 auto? If they unbugger the triggers (my issued 5906 was absolutely awful, my 4013 is somewhat passable), update the capacity, rid it if all the sharp edges they had, gear it towards competition, etc. it’s no longer a gen 3 S&W auto anymore. It’s just a retro renaming of a newly updated and changed design (Colt Python/SIG 210, etc.)

The DWX is a years-in-the-rumor mill-pipeline blending of completely different pistol designs (1911 and CZ-75) that has never been done before. These high end CZ guns have been geared towards the competitive shooters for years, and DW autos were never inexpensive, so shooters pining to own the latest and greatest $2,000 DWX is no surprise. Will DWX sales remain strong? Who knows. CZ updates or kills good guns in their catalog a lot, so I won’t be surprised if the DWX2 Green isn’t made and sold by 2025 and today’s DWX becomes just an entry in their discontinued catalog like the 97B, RAMI, Shadow, etc.

Maaaaybe the 3913 or 4513TSW would sell enough units to eventually cover dusting off the production line, if S&W even is shipping the machinery to their new facilities since they are leaving Messachusetts for better business climates. But more so than that, there is far more cutthroat competition for all of the S&W autos today than there was in the 1990’s when the gen 3 guns were new. So I do not see any chance of them taking such a huge $$ risk to reintroduce a 25-year discontinued, slim-to-no profit-margin gun into todays market.

I wouldn’t be opposed, I just don’t see it ever happening.

Stay safe.

 

[starling]

OK then If we are going to change things Ill take a double Stack 1006 (around 15rds) in a longslide 6- 6.5" barrel configuration. Fully adjustable sights in full stainless. Run it through the performance center but dont make it ugly LOL. Ill think of a snappy name for marketing purposes later. Modern manufacturers are terrible at naming firearms BTW.

 

[Homerboy]

After watching how many corporations and companies intentionally sabotage themselves nothing surprises me anymore. I dont think S&W is necessarily trying to do that but they are being pretty short sighted IMO.

Ruger on the other hand LOL. Many dont seem to remember that Ruger was making some pretty major inroads into the LE realms successfully with the P89, P90, P91, P94 pistols and had very favorable opinions. In the Semi Auto centerfire territory Rugers entire reputation is based on that line of pistols.. Tanks, They just work, No Breakages, Bombproof etc. etc. Their solution... just dump the entire line and become obsessed with a lower tier manufacturer like Keltec. Such a strange direction they took. Looked like things were getting back to the old Ruger Tank standards with the American series but they botched the ergos a little... so its back to Keltec obsession now. Rugers biggest legacy pistol now is the fairly fragile LCP which isnt even their design LOL. Bill would not be pleased.

The Ruger P89 was in the NYPD trials when the change to 9MM was coming. Many of them were authorized to cops who volunteered to get in on the trial. We did have to pay for our own guns back then, and the Ruger was the cheapest, at about $300 per gun with three mags. This was in 1992 when the Glock 19 cost about $325. I worked with two guys who had the P89. Those who volunteered for the program got a free gun belt, holster, and mag pouch. The Ruger did not make the final cut once the 9MM became standard. Don’t know why. The Job had been authorizing Ruger revolvers for nearly 20 years at that point. First the Service Six models, and the Speed Six, and finally the SPNY, and GPNY, the .38 DAO versions of the SP101 and GP100.

About three years later, the Glock 19 was experiencing some Phase 3 malfunction issues. Several in the street in actual shootings. The Job asked Glock to look into it and Glock told them it was an ammo issue. We were shooting 115 grain fmj at the time. The Job contacted Ruger to replace ALL Glock 19’s. About 10,000 guns at that point. Then Glock took notice and sent an armorer to the range to modify all Glocks in use. They recut the ejection port and the problem went away.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

The question was, should S&W reintroduce the gen 3 auto? If they unbugger the triggers (my issued 5906 was absolutely awful, my 4013 is somewhat passable), update the capacity, rid it if all the sharp edges they had, gear it towards competition, etc. it’s no longer a gen 3 S&W auto anymore. It’s just a retro renaming of a newly updated and changed design (Colt Python/SIG 210, etc.)


Stay safe.

That I agree with.

A re-issued 3rd gen is dead, not happening.
But, if Smith updated the design, called it whatever, the market IMO shows people are willing to spend the money.

That's what I trying to point out.

 

[Riomouse911]

That I agree with.

A re-issued 3rd gen is dead, not happening.
But, if Smith updated the design, called it whatever, the market IMO shows people are willing to spend the money.

That's what I trying to point out.

Maybe bring the TSW badge back and build revamped guns to compete with the Shadows/Tangfolios etc. as a special order thing?

That would be cool.

Stay safe.

 

[peacebutready]

The trigger parts ARE 1911 parts, that's a 100 year plus design.
The rest of the gun is a CZ 75, that's a pretty old design as well. The only new thing about it, is combining the two together.

But you completely missed my point, people are willing to spend 2K and more on pistols.
The popularity of Staccato went through the roof in last 2-3 years and they start at 2.5k.
My local dealer sells about 5 Altas gunworks 2011 a month, those are 6 to 7 k.
So IMO the whole it's too costly is kinda moot.

As I said before, a plain Jane 3rd gen....nope.
But update the thing, higher mag capacity, unstupidify the whole trigger/action, gear it towards competition, price it at 1500 to 2000 and people will buy it.
They'll buy it just like the dwx, tso, beretta performance, staccato etc.

A person must have deep pockets to spend 6K on one gun.

 

[peacebutready]

@W.E.G. : There was the single stack version of the 915 as well.

 

[starling]

A person must have deep pockets to spend 6K on one gun.

I hear ya, No big deal just take out a second mortgage and sell a kidney. The Class3 crowd manages to find a way to do it though so there is that. Groceries are kinda overated anyways these days LOL.

 

[crestoncowboy]

I cant think of a bad S&W 3rd gen off the top of my head people just get a little confused by all the variations as there are a lot of them

I don't see why anyone gets confused,
the last two digits from the previous generation become the first two digits of this generation. The third digit is now the action type, but it’s also the frame size. The last digit is the frame material, but it’s also the overall finish. Now, there are also a couple random three-digit outliers, like the 908 and the 457, plus there’s the CS9 and the like, which are subcompact models with alloy frames and stainless slides. Outside of these, you can rely on the third digit to inform you of where the decocker is mounted—a two, a three, or a seven means the decocker is mounted on the frame instead of the slide, but the seven also denotes a midsized frame whereas two would be standard and three compact. On the other hand, if it’s a double-action-only pistol, respective frame size is represented by a four instead of a two, a five instead of a three, and an eight instead of a seven. If the fourth digit was a six, the finish would be stainless, unless the frame was alloy, in which case the fourth digit would be a three. A four indicates that the gun is black and alloy, because if it was steel the number would be a five.

Simple really

Also, I don't feel a bond with my polymer like I do with the 1911

if i start to bond with inanimate objects im giving up the hobby.

And I'm pretty sure it's illegal in many places

Ruger

Ruger was harmed by Bill begging congress via letters, to enact a capacity limits for the peasants. It was never the guns that hurt them.

 

[Homerboy]

@W.E.G. : There was the single stack version of the 915 as well.

That was the 908. Budget version of the 3913.

 

[Homerboy]

I don't see why anyone gets confused,
the last two digits from the previous generation become the first two digits of this generation. The third digit is now the action type, but it’s also the frame size. The last digit is the frame material, but it’s also the overall finish. Now, there are also a couple random three-digit outliers, like the 908 and the 457, plus there’s the CS9 and the like, which are subcompact models with alloy frames and stainless slides. Outside of these, you can rely on the third digit to inform you of where the decocker is mounted—a two, a three, or a seven means the decocker is mounted on the frame instead of the slide, but the seven also denotes a midsized frame whereas two would be standard and three compact. On the other hand, if it’s a double-action-only pistol, respective frame size is represented by a four instead of a two, a five instead of a three, and an eight instead of a seven. If the fourth digit was a six, the finish would be stainless, unless the frame was alloy, in which case the fourth digit would be a three. A four indicates that the gun is black and alloy, because if it was steel the number would be a five.

Simple really




if i start to bond with inanimate objects im giving up the hobby.

And I'm pretty sure it's illegal in many places


Ruger was harmed by Bill begging congress via letters, to enact a capacity limits for the peasants. It was never the guns that hurt them.

The 6906 and 6946 deviated from those rules for some reason. The 4th digit being a 6 denotes a steel gun, like the 5906 and 5946. The 4th digit being a 3 denotes an alloy frame, like the 5903 and 3913. The 6906 has an alloy frame. It should have been named the 6903. Don’t know why Smith did that. Went against their own system.

 

[starling]

That was the 908. Budget version of the 3913.

Or the 909. That was kind of the full sized single stack 9mm. I Think LOL. So many variations of these pistols.

 

[crestoncowboy]

The 6906 and 6946 deviated from those rules for some reason. The 4th digit being a 6 denotes a steel gun, like the 5906 and 5946. The 4th digit being a 3 denotes an alloy frame, like the 5903 and 3913. The 6906 has an alloy frame. It should have been named the 6903. Don’t know why Smith did that. Went against their own system.

A few did. Lol.

Like i said..... simple really

 

[Homerboy]

Or the 909. That was kind of the full sized single stack 9mm. I Think LOL. So many variations of these pistols.

Yeah. Funny how a line of pistols that some brand as “trash that only cops who were forced to use before something better came along” was so successful and came in virtually every semi auto handgun cartridge, size, and finish. Plastic came and changed the industry, for sure. Cheaper to make (not so much to buy), and lighter. But other than the weight savings(and only really in the steel models. The alloy framed 6996 is about the same size and weight as a Glock 19), they don’t do anything any better, unless you base your opinions on what a bearded “operator” on YouTube has to say about it.

 

[silicosys4]

Waxing nostalgia about S&W autos is through rose colored glasses. S&W autos were always uglier than their peers, had a crazy high bore axis, concealed poorly, failed to innovate technologically, and did nothing better than any other semi auto of the time. There are so many semi auto designs of that era that people liked enough to keep in production...CZ75, 1911, Sigs, ets... There is a reason they are still made and S&W 3rd gens are not.

 

[huntsman]

I was wondering if Smith and Wesson should bring back a couple or more of their 3rd generation pistols. I'd be tempted to buy one.

What do you all think?

I owned and occasionally carried a 4566 for 9 years now I own and carry multiples from the M&P line, I see no reason to go backwards with a gen3

 

[tarosean]

A person must have deep pockets to spend 6K on one gun.

Was just having a similar conversation at work today, albeit it was watches.

6k is obtainable for most people with a decent income and a willingness to save up for something. Course there is the novel idea of quality over not buying 20 mediocre $300.00 dollar guns. Huge difference between 6k and 100k+ guns that are definitely unobtainable for the vast majority of people.

 

[TarDevil]

If S&W would solve the trigger issues and make a .45 caliber version, the CSX would salve my 3rd Gen longings.

 

[Homerboy]

Waxing nostalgia about S&W autos is through rose colored glasses. S&W autos were always uglier than their peers, had a crazy high bore axis, concealed poorly, failed to innovate technologically, and did nothing better than any other semi auto of the time. There are so many semi auto designs of that era that people liked enough to keep in production...CZ75, 1911, Sigs, ets... There is a reason they are still made and S&W 3rd gens are not.

3rd Gen’s are ugly? They were classy as hell. Stainless steel versions, anyway. The black ones weren’t as good looking. They are FAR better looking than Glocks. High bore axis? Ever look at an Sig 226? They look like double decker busses. Most hammer fired guns have high bore axis, except the CZ75 but the slide runs inside the frame instead of on top.

Nothing better than their peers? Did Sig or Beretta offer their guns in the amount of calibers and sizes and materials than the 3rd Gen? I’ve never even seen a Beretta type M in person. 3913’s were everywhere. Didn’t conceal as well? Did Sig or Beretta make a model as small as the CS9,, a gun I used to just stick in my pocket without a holster?



It’s not nostalgia for me. I loved them in the 90’s and I love them today. And so did many thousands of others, which h is why they were so successful. It’s funny how you can claim others here are looking at them through rose colored glasses while you’re looking at them with such an obvious bias

 

[silicosys4]

3rd Gen’s are ugly? They were classy as hell. Stainless steel versions, anyway. The black ones weren’t as good looking. They are FAR better looking than Glocks. High bore axis? Ever look at an Sig 226? They look like double decker busses. Most hammer fired guns have high bore axis, except the CZ75 but the slide runs inside the frame instead of on top.

Nothing better than their peers? Did Sig or Beretta offer their guns in the amount of calibers and sizes and materials than the 3rd Gen? I’ve never even seen a Beretta type M in person. 3913’s were everywhere. Didn’t conceal as well? Did Sig or Beretta make a model as small as the CS9,, a gun I used to just stick in my pocket without a holster?



It’s not nostalgia for me. I loved them in the 90’s and I love them today. And so did many thousands of others, which h is why they were so successful. It’s funny how you can claim others here are looking at them through rose colored glasses while you’re looking at them with such an obvious bias

Wow, I guess they must have been such a success that S&W is still making and selling them....oh wait. They aren't.
Meanwhile,
Beretta is still making and selling the snot out of the 92, so much that other gunmakers are making clones.
Sig is still making and selling the crap out of 226's and 229's, which are also being cloned by other manufacturers
CZ is still selling oodles of the CZ 75, and those have been cloned for the last 40 years, and are still being cloned.

How about S&W 3rd gen autos?
and yes they are ugly as hell when you compare them to something not a glock. Nobody ever accused a glock of being aesthetically pleasing, but a S&W auto is downright ugly when you compare it to just about any other metal frame auto. They are just derpy looking.

 

[tarosean]

I’ve never even seen a Beretta type M in person. 3913’s were everywhere.

They only imported 2000 of them.

 

[Homerboy]

Wow, I guess they must have been such a success that S&W is still making and selling them....oh wait. They aren't.
Meanwhile,
Beretta is still making and selling the snot out of the 92, so much that other gunmakers are making clones.
Sig is still making and selling the crap out of 226's and 229's, which are also being cloned by other manufacturers
CZ is still selling oodles of the CZ 75, and those have been cloned for the last 40 years, and are still being cloned.

How about S&W 3rd gen autos?
and yes they are ugly as hell when you compare them to something not a glock. Nobody ever accused a glock of being aesthetically pleasing, but a S&W auto is downright ugly when you compare it to just about any other metal frame auto. They are just derpy looking.

Beretta’s attempt at a polymer duty gun failed with the PX4. The APX hasn’t made a splash either. The 92 family is basically their only hope of continuing to sell handguns. And I love the 92 so I’m not bashing it. Same with Sig.

It has already been established that IF S&W brought them back they would sell. They wouldn’t sell enough to justify the expense. I guarantee you Sig sells more 365’s than 226’s.

This has grown boring. You hate 3rd gen’s. Always have for some weird reason. I don’t dislike Hi-Points to the extent that you do 3rd Gen’s. They were hugely popular until newer and cheaper things came along. Two of the biggest departments in the world authorized them when they had other options. Same reason why S&W stopped making their older revolvers. MIM parts and key locks replaced the Model 10. I suppose you think the old Model 10 is inferior to the new stuff they churn out?

 

[JERRY]

I had a few of them but I sold them off when Smith and Weston said there would no longer service them.