Should you ever admit you are carrying?

[Good Ol' Boy]

From a couple of group e-mails I sent out (not going to modify for the forum):

I again saw the Facebook video (Castile case) on the news last night and this comment from his girlfriend got my Spidey sense tingling.

Here are her exact words shortly into the video:
He let the officer know he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet.

Now I’m sure the gal may have been in shock, and there’s a good chance if you ask her what happened five times, you’re going to get five slightly different descriptions (that’s just the nature of most witnesses), BUT just roll her statement over in your head.

He let the officer know he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet.

I’m sure lawyers will have a field day with this one?

Exactly how did he let the officer know he had a firearm (what language was used)?

Based on her quote, imagine you’re the officer and are told this:
“I have a gun” as you reach for your wallet / ID.

In her comment she says he let the officer know he had a gun, but we don’t know if he let the office know he was reaching for his wallet (could be taken either way based on her imprecise comment).

If you watched the Massad Ayoob video from my earlier e-mail, you’ll recall at the 1 minute mark the following conversation:
Ayoob: The old advice of tell the office “I’VE GOT A GUN” is going to have a very negative….
Gresham: Well what’s your reaction if… “I’ve got a gun.”
Ayoob: “ME TOO” (as he steps back and draws his).

I’m wondering if something like this isn’t exactly what occurred in the Castile case?

I tell you this not to assign blame to either party (the courts will figure that out), but simply to remind you if you carry a firearm, you need to LEARN HOW TO SURRENDER / COMPLY.

As I told you in my earlier e-mail, I NEVER mention the word GUN to an officer.

Every time I’ve been pulled over, the first thing out of the officer’s mouth when he approached was can I see your driver’s license and registration?

I don’t say a word so there’s no chance of misinterpretation or a failure to communicate.

I simply place my CHP on TOP of my DL and hand both to the officer and wait for his instructions.

AND FINALLY

With all that’s going on these days, AND comments I see from some of the pundits / activists on TV on the Sunday talk shows (I fear for their children), perhaps it’s time we all take a short refresher course on how to interact with the police from Chris Rock.

CAUTION: Language, so not for work or around your kids (although you need to pass these tips on to them)!

They say the best satire has a basis in truth – that being the case, this is some of the best I’ve seen!

How Not To Get Your Ass Kicked (or these days, shot) By The Police
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igQDvYOt_iA

Excellent post.

 

[Coop45]

In Texas, there is no requirement to inform; however, when he runs my plates he will know the color of my toothbrush.

 

[Red Wind]

In Texas, there is no requirement to inform; however, when he runs my plates he will know the color of my toothbrush.

It is the law in Texas to notify the LEO you are carrying upon official contact.
See http://handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf

 

[TRX]

Arkansas requires you to inform a police officer "upon interaction", which they further define as "when he asks you to identify yourself."

Since I viewed variants on "I've got a GUN!" as being possibly counterproductive, I just hand over my CHCL with my driver's license. The state demands you *vocally* indicate you have a firearm; normally upon seeing the CHCL the officer will say something like "do you have it on you?", at which point you can say "yes" and you have fulfilled your legal requirements without (hopefully) getting anyone's adrenaline up.

 

[GBExpat]

... Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you.

OK.

 

[tipoc]

Unless the law requires you to inform the officer that you have a CC license and a firearm on you it is best not to say anything about it. It is none of their business, it invites the possibility of trouble and you are under no obligation to do so.

If for some reason the officer invites you to exit the vehicle, at that time it becomes in your best interest to inform them you have a firearm on your person. Keep your hands visible at all times and move slowly. Inform the officer as to what you are doing before you do it, as in "I'm going to reach for my wallet now".

Be polite. Avoid chatting with the officer. Conduct business and be done with it.

It's best to know the laws in the area you are in and to follow them, keeps you safe and alive and let's you go about your business and your objectives for the day.

Also, it's rather pointless to invent scenarios of what occurred in Minnesota, we don't have a full report.

tipoc

 

[Plan2Live]

xxjumbojimboxx said:

Every time I'm pulled over I inform the officer of the fact the I possess a CHL and if I do have a weapon with me which has been 3 times out of 4 stops ill let him know where it is.

Sorry, I have to ask, what are you doing that causes you to get pulled over so often? Have you considered changing that behavior and avoiding the situation altogether?

 

[Ironicaintit]

I have a short tale...sorry, I dunno how to be concise.

I once had to return to the scene of an argument my wife had with another lady in a parking lot... because the lady was following us in her car afterwards, and I saw that she was on the phone. I figured she was calling the cops...so, We called the sheriffs dept. to let them know what was up, and so had to return to give a statement. (I didn't know what that lady was tellin the cops on the phone, so I made a preemptive call)
Anyways, we meet the deputy, and after introductions, I said to her, "just FYI, I have a carry permit and am armed"... Just in case she were to notice, I didn't want her to be taken aback.

She just smiled, shrugged and said, "ok". We gave our statement, and that was that.

99 times out of 100, any cop is going to read your demeanor real real quick. and if they have a gut instinct that you are up to no good, and then you say you have a gun?! Things might not go so well.
I'm a pretty laid back fellow...every time I've decided to let them know I was wearing an iron, it still went casual and seemless.

 

[Coop45]

It is the law in Texas to notify the LEO you are carrying upon official contact.
See http://handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf

Ouch! I thought they changed that. Thanks!

 

[Red Wind]

You're welcome. Semper fi!

 

[zxcvbob]

Ouch! I thought they changed that. Thanks!

They removed the penalty if you don't notify. Probably (speculation on my part) because a motorist in Texas who has a gun in the car and does NOT have a permit has no duty to notify.

 

[Panzerschwein]

If legally required to, probably yes.

Otherwise, absolutely nobodies business. If they see a bulge, tell them it's an insulin pump or colostomy bag.

 

[JohnKSa]

They removed the penalty if you don't notify.

Correct. But the law still says you have to notify. It's better if the officer finds out from you than if it comes up when he runs your license/ID.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I think the OP is assuming much but to answer the question: only when asked.

Mike

 

[jmorris]

I inform when asked by LEO or they ask for ID they recoeve both DL and CHL. I do what they ask and repeat their orders before I execute them, then do so slowly without any jerky movement or BS spewing from my mouth.

Never had any problems so far.

 

[gbran]

Here in CA, we are required to inform. I've had many contacts with LEO's. All but one were pleasant and uneventful.

 

[zxcvbob]

Correct. But the law still says you have to notify. It's better if the officer finds out from you than if it comes up when he runs your license/ID.

Yeah, I agree. I just thought that might the the change that Coop misremembered.

 

[X-Rap]

On facebook there is a compilation of police shootings that everyone should check out. I had a concept of how quickly things can turn but watching the actual incidents I was shocked.

 

[JTHunter]

Sauer Grapes said:

I was asked once by a LEO if I had any weapons after being stopped for a stop sign violation. I said, no.
As far as I'm concerned it's none of their business.

You always have a "weapon" with you, depending on how it is used:
1 - your brain;
2 - your hands (fists or a finger jab to the throat).
These are alternatives you MIGHT have on hand:
A - a sharp wooden pencil or stick-type ballpoint pen (Bic);
B - a screwdriver;
C - a hammer;
D - a tire iron;
E - a baseball bat.

There are any number of possibilities. It just depends on your "McGuyver-isms".

 

[JohnKSa]

I was asked once by a LEO if I had any weapons after being stopped for a stop sign violation. I said, no.

Since I don't know if you had a weapon at the time or not, I'm not directing my response at you in specific.

It's generally a bad idea, and sometimes against the law to lie to the police.

 

[toivo]

I live in a state that has no requirement to inform. When I took the CCW class, we were told that for a routine traffic stop, we don't need to say anything.

However, the instructor strongly advised that if anything unusual happens, like the cop asks you to get out of the car or asks if you have any weapons, you should put both hands on the wheel and say "Officer, I'm legally carrying a concealed weapon. How do you want me to proceed?" Then do exactly what he/she says.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

xxjumbojimboxx said: Sorry, I have to ask, what are you doing that causes you to get pulled over so often? Have you considered changing that behavior and avoiding the situation altogether?

Lol... Speeding... and not wearing seatbelts. I thought that was obvious... also its four stops in like a 6 year period... I don't feel like it's that much. Speeding sure.. maybe I should stop speeding. But I refuse to conform to the overlords on the seatbelt issue. I ride a motorcycle with nothing to cushion the blow from a fall... but I have to wear my seatbelt in my 5000 lb truck?

 

[Tirod]

Unless the law requires, you have no duty to inform. Use your discretion - the officer gets to use theirs, too.

As for reaching to get your wallet (if that actually happened) it then goes to a-s-s-u-m-i- n-g that everyone always carriex their gun at 5:00 near the back pocket? NOT.

In that regard, it then goes to the video which shows it clearly sitting in the deceased's lap when recorded. Taking the view the OP presented - is that how YOU would handle a traffic stop?

That's the topic folks - do you carry close to your wallet, and if so, is that the most optimal carry in a vehicle? How do you respond to what you consider your most likely threat, and also comply with an officers request to produce ID (repeatedly, it would seem. for some)?

In this case, the video definitively shows the gun was not in a carry position after the officer fired. Regardless of what we think, the investigation will resolve why that happened. Not a self serving video exploiting first strike media complicity in furthering their anti gun agenda.

Battle Staff working rule #1: The First Reports Are Always WRONG. That is why you see organizations taking the time to discover the reality, not accept the potential deceptions that might be deliberately offered.

 

[jmorris]

It is the law in Texas to notify the LEO you are carrying upon official contact.
See http://handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf

That is why I do it.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

"Should you ever admit you are carrying?"

"IMHO, no, unless you are asked by a law enforcement officer."

"Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you."


OK, I only posted snippets of your OP.

First of all, your original question is entirely too open ended. "Should you ever admit you are carrying?" The answer to that, of course, is neither "yes" nor "no". Why? Because it's entirely situational and either answer will not apply in all circumstances.

Are you in a jurisdiction where "must inform" in in effect? Then the law says "Yes, you must inform LEO" when interacting with them on an official basis.

Are you in a jurisdiction where there is no "must inform" statute? Then the answer to that depends entirely upon the specifics of any given encounter with LEO. And, since we can all come up with dozens of scenarios for either way, I'll simply leave it up to the individual to make that judgment call as they see fit.


REGARDLESS...if you DO inform LEO that you are carrying, there is a "proper" way to do so which involves two key elements in the correct order:

FIRST: Inform the officer that you have a valid concealed carry permit.

THEN: Inform the officer that you are carrying your firearm.


Afterwards...listen closely to what the officer has to say and be ready to calmly and reasonably comply with any directives you are given.


This whole paranoid issue with respect to "Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you" is an extreme reaction. You don't just go about telling people you're armed. Make a conscious decision of whom you are going to tell that to and for the right reasons. Law enforcement, when the situation requires, is one time you should.

Things are far more likely to go South in any given encounter with LEO if you either don't inform when you're supposed to (law requirement) and he finds out via other means OR if you aren't intelligent about how you go about informing.

Presumably, if you're carrying, you're intelligent enough to know how to go about informing.


THAT SAID:

It is entirely understandable why some people might be nervous about informing, with some of the stuff flying about on the media recently. All I have to say is remain calm and use your brain.