Shouldn't processing charges to obtain a CCW be illegal?

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Hokkmike

Hokkmike

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In Pennsylvania I paid about $20 to get a CCW that is good for 5 years. Whereas this MIGHT interfere with a person's ability to obtain a pemit don't you think that it ought to be considered unconstitutional? Like a poll tax?

Yes, I know it is cheap and I know MOST evryone can afford it, but it's the principle of the thing. The FCC used to charge for a CB license and then it was decided that was illegal.

Isn't this a similar scenario?
 
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PA LTCFs are good for 5 years, not 10.


It is also perfectly legal to carry openly without a LTCF, everywhere in the state except for Philadelphia (which requires a LTCF to carry openly). The state considers open carry to be the uninfringed right to bear arms; concealed carry is a privilege.
 
From what I understand, the CCW fees would be illegal if concealed carry was the only method of exercising your rights. Open carry is legal (and free) in PA so you have to pay for the 'privilege' of concealing. The government would argue that the financial burden of processing the paperwork should not be borne by the taxpayers, but by the individuals applying for the permit. This is in line with things like building permits and the like.
 
The government has the right to charge for providing a service. This is the same as charging you for your driver's license or your garbage pickup. It's just part of the cost of goods sold.

BTW... $20? Geez... my Fla CCW card cost over a hundred. If I was you, I'd rejoice that it only cost you a twenty...
 
The government has the right to charge for providing a service.
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No. I disagree. They can not (should not be able to) charge you to enjoy a right guaranteed by the constitution. Driver's licenses and garbage pick-up certainly don't qualify.

You don't have to pay to vote, excercise free speech, worship, etc.
 
But without fees how are we going to keep the blacks from voting and carrying guns?:rolleyes::uhoh:
 
Concealed carry is not considered a right by most states. Firearms were traditionally carried openly and only people with ill intent would conceal. Concealed firearms carry by the masses is a relatively new concept.
 
Shouldn't processing charges to obtain a CCW be illegal?
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No, they need to pay for the paper, ink, storage, employees, etc, just like any other business. Of course, when it gets to be over a hundred bucks, I question the state's figures...
 
Here in Oklahoma it's $200 for a 10 year license at first. And you can't carry openly here in Oklahoma.
 
Mainsail said:
Concealed carry is not considered a right by most states. Firearms were traditionally carried openly and only people with ill intent would conceal. Concealed firearms carry by the masses is a relatively new concept.
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True. However, when the state Constitutions that hold that view were written, concealable handguns were not in common use in Armed Forces and/or Militia use and were considered more of a "novelty" and not a serious arm. If one considers the "of use to the Militia" test posed in US v Miller then modern day handguns would absolutely be among those arms which the 2nd Amendment was meant to protect. But then again so would SBRs, short barreled shotguns and machine guns - basically anything not crew served.

With the required class here in Arkansas, CCW costs are well over the $300 mark.
 
No, they need to pay for the paper, ink, storage, employees, etc, just like any other business. Of course, when it gets to be over a hundred bucks, I question the state's figures...
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But they can't charge even 1 cent as a poll tax. You vote free. Why not exercise a other "rights" free as well?
 
14 posters and most have just boughtinto the system-we have to pay.

...shall not be infringed...? Our founding fathers are rolling around in the ground.
 
If SCOTUS rules in Heller that the 2nd is indeed an individual right, then i'ld expect that fee's for purchase/FOID's will go the way of the poll tax.
 
But they can't charge even 1 cent as a poll tax. You vote free. Why not exercise a other "rights" free as well?
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That's a good point, but you don't really vote for free. Those polling machines, equipment, etc, are paid for by .gov, which is paid for by you. Anyone who pays taxes can thus vote, but they just can't call it a poll tax. Driver's licenses and CC permits are pretty similar in that not everyone wants to drive/carry concealed, so if you want to then you have to pay the govt directly to "reimburse" their costs of registering you. It's the cost to the govt that de-motivates them. Well, that's the theory of it from what I understand... but not the reality.

Don't get me wrong, I think that $100 for a permit is ridiculous; I'm very suspicious of the govt's numbers.

--edit--
The real problem is needing permission to exercise a right in the first place...
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+1!
 
Not only is the fee expensive, but if you add it all up it costs quite a bit of money for CCW.

Here is my breakdown (Michigan):

State Fees: $105
Training class: $95
1 box .40 S&W for range time: $12+tax
Gas running around to file paperwork and attend class: $10
Galco IWB Holster: $55
Glock 23 w/ night sights: $539+tax
1 box .40 Speer Gold Dot HP ammo for SD: $14+tax

There, finally have everything to protect myself!

Total: $830.84 - Ouch!
 
Hokkmike said:
But they can't charge even 1 cent as a poll tax. You vote free. Why not exercise a other "rights" free as well?
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Aren’t you listening? You can exercise your 2nd amendment rights without charge, especially in PA.

k_dawg said:
If SCOTUS rules in Heller that the 2nd is indeed an individual right, then i'ld expect that fee's for purchase/FOID's will go the way of the poll tax.
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You’re wrong on this. The Heller team is arguing the two prong Miller test:
In sum, an “arm” is protected under the Miller
test if it is of the type that (1) civilians would use,
such that they could be expected to possess it for
ordinary lawful purposes (in the absence of, or even
despite, legal prohibition), and (2) would be useful in
militia service.
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Nothing in Miller has anything to do with concealed carry, thus, even the most favorable ruling for the individual rights concept will change the concealed carry laws in the States.
 
First off, the government is not providing you a service by respecting your right to go armed. Theoretically, if you used your weapon improperly it would be your butt on the line, not anyone else's.

They can not (should not be able to) charge you to enjoy a right guaranteed by the constitution. Driver's licenses and garbage pick-up certainly don't qualify.
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Wrong. Read the Ninth and Tenth Amendments... the Second Amendment is not the only important one.

So yes, fees for exercising your Second Amendment rights without any infringement (is it concealed? loaded? etc) are as illegal, unconstitutional, and immoral as poll taxes.
 
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