Show me your 25 pocket pistols!
- Thread starter Badger Arms
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Badger Arms
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I personally would have no qualms about carrying a 25...however, it seems that the general concensus on this forum is that, defensive calibers start at 32.....and for some...defensive calibers start at 45
the 25 seems to be going by the wayside...personally, i would carry it, but would have MORE faith in a 22 lr, or 22 mag.
the 25 seems to be going by the wayside...personally, i would carry it, but would have MORE faith in a 22 lr, or 22 mag.
berettaman
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I slip this little baby in the ole pocket from time to time when I'm just going for a quick trip to the stop-N-rob!
wally
Member
My better than nothing gun was a .25 for many years, then I got a Kel-Tec P32 .32ACP and now a Kel-Tec P3AT .380. Weight (lack of) is to me more important than absolute size in a pocket pistol once its small enough to fit the pocket. Both the P32 and P3AT are significantly lighter and a bit thinner than any of my .25 pistols, but are a bit longer/taller.
Pistols like the P32 and P3AT really make the .25 pointless -- two or three times the energy per shot in a lighter to carry gun would seem to be a no-brainer for anyone carrying for self defense.
There are some very nice 25ACP pistols but the GCA of '68 stopped importation so prices are IMHO insanely high for what you get on these -- definitely better to collect than to shoot/carry these now.
I've plenty of qualms about carrying a .380, but a .25 in your hand beats a .45 in the safe every time!
--wally.
Pistols like the P32 and P3AT really make the .25 pointless -- two or three times the energy per shot in a lighter to carry gun would seem to be a no-brainer for anyone carrying for self defense.
There are some very nice 25ACP pistols but the GCA of '68 stopped importation so prices are IMHO insanely high for what you get on these -- definitely better to collect than to shoot/carry these now.
I've plenty of qualms about carrying a .380, but a .25 in your hand beats a .45 in the safe every time!
--wally.
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Badger Arms
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The relative merits of the 25 are up for debate, sure, but the fact is they exist and in significant quantities. I carry a P11 most of the time, but I like to collect 25's.
When people question the 25, my standard answer is this: What is the likely outcome probability of a gun being used in self defense? Well, you can point to a 'stop.' In this case, the usual statistic is that rounds that are shot and hit their targets will have a number associated with them as far as a rough percentage of 'one-shot stops.' So, the 357 magnum is said to be a 96% stopper, the 45 is said to be an 80% stopper, etc. 22 short and 25 auto make the list around the 40-50% range on lists I can recall.
But backup a minute. What is the probability of a shot being fired. In reality, less than 1% of all firearms encounters result in a shot being fired. In most cases, brandishing, flashing, or threatening with the gun is significant to stop an encounter. Let's presume that it's 1% when you'd need to fire a shot.
Of that, better than half of the perpatrators will not be stopped instantly with anything less than a 45, 44 magnum, 357 etc. The reason was explored in tests of the 45 auto shooting animals. Animals didn't know they had been shot and would take 10 minutes or thereabouts to die when shot with anything less than a 'large caliber' handgun in this case a 45 colt. Humans react the same way. Somebody who is shot with a 9mm -- even fatally -- still has about 10 minutes of violence left in them. So, unless you are carrying a 'STOPPER' like the 357 or 45, look out.
So, why did the little 22 short and 25 auto make such high numbers on the list? The answer is that a Cap Gun might have also made those numbers. Certainly, a bad guy might be crazy, drugged, boozed, stoned, or just pumped so full of adrenaline that he doesn't care. But most often that bad guy is just plain SCARED. He probably DOESN'T WANT TO BE SHOT and certainly can tell when a gun is fired at close range. When a gun is fired, he will realize that HIS life is in danger and depart no matter whether the gun is a 500 S&W or a 22 shot.
In this respect, any gun is a 99.5% stopper and the pipsqueak calibers still rate a respectable 99.75%.
On to the 32 and 380. Well, those calibers still only rate in the 60-70% on the one-shot stop chart. That makes them... well you do the math but it ain't much more. Of course, if you're not already numb, I'll give you the counter-argument. If you can carry a 357, 45, or anything larger, why do you want to give up that quarter of a percent? Good point. Back to reality with you though. If you DO carry it, though, that's great. Can't tell you how many people have a 45 sitting in a drawer while they go about their lives unarmed. Why? Because it's cumbersome, they don't have a proper carry rig, they get complacent, it's heavy, etc.
Bottom line: A 25 is the smallest gun you can find, still, and near the lightest. It's inconspicuous in a pocket and is no big deal if you lose it. It doesn't take a body-builder to control it and it's almost always there for you. It's more reliable than a 22 and can save your life (well, 99.75% of the time anyway).
When people question the 25, my standard answer is this: What is the likely outcome probability of a gun being used in self defense? Well, you can point to a 'stop.' In this case, the usual statistic is that rounds that are shot and hit their targets will have a number associated with them as far as a rough percentage of 'one-shot stops.' So, the 357 magnum is said to be a 96% stopper, the 45 is said to be an 80% stopper, etc. 22 short and 25 auto make the list around the 40-50% range on lists I can recall.
But backup a minute. What is the probability of a shot being fired. In reality, less than 1% of all firearms encounters result in a shot being fired. In most cases, brandishing, flashing, or threatening with the gun is significant to stop an encounter. Let's presume that it's 1% when you'd need to fire a shot.
Of that, better than half of the perpatrators will not be stopped instantly with anything less than a 45, 44 magnum, 357 etc. The reason was explored in tests of the 45 auto shooting animals. Animals didn't know they had been shot and would take 10 minutes or thereabouts to die when shot with anything less than a 'large caliber' handgun in this case a 45 colt. Humans react the same way. Somebody who is shot with a 9mm -- even fatally -- still has about 10 minutes of violence left in them. So, unless you are carrying a 'STOPPER' like the 357 or 45, look out.
So, why did the little 22 short and 25 auto make such high numbers on the list? The answer is that a Cap Gun might have also made those numbers. Certainly, a bad guy might be crazy, drugged, boozed, stoned, or just pumped so full of adrenaline that he doesn't care. But most often that bad guy is just plain SCARED. He probably DOESN'T WANT TO BE SHOT and certainly can tell when a gun is fired at close range. When a gun is fired, he will realize that HIS life is in danger and depart no matter whether the gun is a 500 S&W or a 22 shot.
In this respect, any gun is a 99.5% stopper and the pipsqueak calibers still rate a respectable 99.75%.
On to the 32 and 380. Well, those calibers still only rate in the 60-70% on the one-shot stop chart. That makes them... well you do the math but it ain't much more. Of course, if you're not already numb, I'll give you the counter-argument. If you can carry a 357, 45, or anything larger, why do you want to give up that quarter of a percent? Good point. Back to reality with you though. If you DO carry it, though, that's great. Can't tell you how many people have a 45 sitting in a drawer while they go about their lives unarmed. Why? Because it's cumbersome, they don't have a proper carry rig, they get complacent, it's heavy, etc.
Bottom line: A 25 is the smallest gun you can find, still, and near the lightest. It's inconspicuous in a pocket and is no big deal if you lose it. It doesn't take a body-builder to control it and it's almost always there for you. It's more reliable than a 22 and can save your life (well, 99.75% of the time anyway).
Hkmp5sd
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Although I do not carry it....
tiberius
Member
Beretta Model 20. It is the same design as the M21, but is somewhat smaller in the grip and accepts the same magazines as the 950. I picked it up in a pawn shop several years back, but don't really carry it anymore. It is a very sweet shooting gun that has never malfunctioned.
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.25 autos
I'm glad this thread, was started. I would like to interject, a question, about a .25.
I was given a .25 GECCADO model 11. some years back. Can anyone tell me anything about this pistol? . I have never fired it, or cleaned it, as I don't have the slightest clue, on how to field strip it. It's for sure, not a carry pistol . Sorry to disrupt the thread.
I'm glad this thread, was started. I would like to interject, a question, about a .25.
I was given a .25 GECCADO model 11. some years back. Can anyone tell me anything about this pistol?
. I have never fired it, or cleaned it, as I don't have the slightest clue, on how to field strip it. It's for sure, not a carry pistol . Sorry to disrupt the thread.bad_dad_brad
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I like the Beretta Jetfire 950 in .25acp. Sadly they don't make them anymore.
Course, we can't carry concealed in Hellinois.
Course, we can't carry concealed in Hellinois.
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Badger Arms
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hey cool, someone else has one. even though its very ugly, and it isnt even symmetrical(!!) it does seem like it is of pretty high quality. everything is very solid, except the damn little striker!!
btw, your lucky, my grips are all cracked. so if anyone knows where i could get parts for this thing, let me know.
btw, your lucky, my grips are all cracked. so if anyone knows where i could get parts for this thing, let me know.
Crownvicman
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Sylvilagus Aquaticus
Member
Sorry, my ex kept the Bauer Stainless (Baby Browning Xerox model) that I had in the nightstand. No pix, no popgun. I heard she sold it for $50 to some guy at work after we split.
At least she didn't shoot me with it. I'd have been mad.
Regards,
Rabbit.
At least she didn't shoot me with it. I'd have been mad.
Regards,
Rabbit.
Wally,
I agree with what you said completely. The .25 for a pocket gun is not necessary with Kel-Tec making such light and considerably more powerful guns. While it may be fun to have a vintage .25 for plinking, for self defense it really is a last resort and I would sooner have a .22 LR. I used to have a .25 and as I recall the ammo was more expensive than either the .32 or .380. If you want a pocket pistol, I think the KT P3AT or P32 is the way to go.
I agree with what you said completely. The .25 for a pocket gun is not necessary with Kel-Tec making such light and considerably more powerful guns. While it may be fun to have a vintage .25 for plinking, for self defense it really is a last resort and I would sooner have a .22 LR. I used to have a .25 and as I recall the ammo was more expensive than either the .32 or .380. If you want a pocket pistol, I think the KT P3AT or P32 is the way to go.
MrAcheson
Member
I distrust the one-shot-stop numbers on principle, but a 15-20% change in weapons effectiveness is significant enough to be important. On the other hand the 5% difference between 9mm/.45/etc is not especially important.
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Badger Arms
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Well, I was a bit off on my statistics. Here are the FBI Numbers for anybody that's interested: http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/one.shot.stops.htm
This, of course, misses the point of the thread. I want to SEE THEM, I don't care much if you LIKE them or feel that you'd ever CARRY one. Guy, that's a nice revolver. I want one.
This, of course, misses the point of the thread. I want to SEE THEM, I don't care much if you LIKE them or feel that you'd ever CARRY one. Guy, that's a nice revolver. I want one.
Crownvicman
Member
tiberius
Member
No kidding! what's the deal with all this advice on what to carry? Lighten up, every discussion doesn't have to be about stopping power and combat effectiveness. There are a lot of neat little .25's out there and they are fun ion their own right.
That is an intersting revolver, I had not heard of it before.
That is an intersting revolver, I had not heard of it before.
As long as there are .25's to be had, new or used, people will buy them. They're handy to have, fun to shoot, and easy to keep out of sight.
I have one on layaway that I'll be picking up later this week, a Colt Junior with 99% bluing that looks like it's lived in a safe all its life.
It's small, it's compact, and with a magazine full of .25 ACP+P Defender Magsafe ammunition, I would have no qualms about using it as a backup for my .38 special snubbie or even carrying it by itself on occasion as a pocket gun.
Here in Massachusetts we don't get to pick and choose with the latest of the new small mouse guns. Kel-tec's aren't on "the list" of approved handguns, Beretta's small .32, .22 and .25's aren't available in anything new, and the only thing really small that is available other than the occasional used "mice" (like my new .25) are the MA approved Seecamps .32s at around $599...
Here's a link to a local gunshop that has a list of all the wonderful guns we can't have here in MA: http://www.fsguns.com/fsg_information.html
Alrighty then. I'll post a pic. when I pick it up.
BeanTown
I have one on layaway that I'll be picking up later this week, a Colt Junior with 99% bluing that looks like it's lived in a safe all its life.
It's small, it's compact, and with a magazine full of .25 ACP+P Defender Magsafe ammunition, I would have no qualms about using it as a backup for my .38 special snubbie or even carrying it by itself on occasion as a pocket gun.
Here in Massachusetts we don't get to pick and choose with the latest of the new small mouse guns. Kel-tec's aren't on "the list" of approved handguns, Beretta's small .32, .22 and .25's aren't available in anything new, and the only thing really small that is available other than the occasional used "mice" (like my new .25) are the MA approved Seecamps .32s at around $599...
Here's a link to a local gunshop that has a list of all the wonderful guns we can't have here in MA: http://www.fsguns.com/fsg_information.html
Alrighty then. I'll post a pic. when I pick it up.
BeanTown
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