SHTF Ammo Choices

[Diggler]

OK, I'm running dangerously low on 7.62x39 ammo, and since Mr. Ridge has suggested that the populace be prepared for anything this summer, I think I'm going to buy some cases of ammo from aimsurplus.

A lot of it will be used as the last batch was, eventually being plinked away on the weekends. But I'd like to put back a case or two just in case it's REALLY needed someday.

New Production, Russian 7.62x39. Mil-Spec, Steel case, FMJ, Berdan Primed, and Non-Corrosive. Neatly packaged 20rds/box, 700rds/sealed Military can in a commercially marked box: $59.95

New Production, Russian, Sapsan, 7.62x39 Ammunition! 124grn, Hollow Point, Steel case, and Non-Corrosive. 2,330fps. Packaged 20rds/box, 1,000rds/case. Sold as 1,000rd case only: $69.95

Obviously, the HP rounds are cheaper, so what would the benefits of each type of round be for a homeland defense rifle? Would the FMJ be more suitable for a SHTF scenario?

 

[Red_SC]

Good question, one I've wondered. This is the last ammo I bought, it seems to shoot really well in my SKS. I got the soft point, but they also have HP and FMJ.

7.62X39 ammo

 

[armoredman]

Get some steel core too....

 

[Diggler]

I'll be more specific and say that I'm thinking about a disruption in public utilities and supplies that may cause undesireables to attempt to take advantage of the situation.

I'm guessing that HP's would be good for quickly stopping soft-skinned BG's and could double as a hunting round. But FMJ would be more likely to punch through small obstacles such as car doors in a tactical situation. And you can always track the deer if you do use it to hunt with.

I don't think it makes a LOT of sense to buy both, either, because if you should ever need it, you'll only have what you had loaded in your gun earlier. Not many people would say 'Oh, that guy's shooting at me from behind a car, I should dump all the ammo out of my SKS and reload with FMJ's!'

Should penetration be the primary concern?

 

[JamisJockey]

I'll be more specific and say that I'm thinking about a disruption in public utilities and supplies that may cause undesireables to attempt to take advantage of the situation.

Just my opinion....I'd get the HP or soft point stuff. At shorter defensive ranges, it'll likely penetrate plenty good. And the better expansion will give a higer probability of a stopping shot against people or animals.
Unless you're planning on fighting blue helmets or some other tinfoil-hatted scheme , leave the FMJ stuff for plinking. The kind of
Hurricane Andrew scenerio you describe is the most likely thing any of us will ever face.

BTW, I've decided to 'run what you brung' and modified my shotgun into a defensive role.
Winchester 1300 with 28"bbl, I picked up a 22" rifle sight smootbore for it, pulled the hunting plug out of it, and voila....next I need to install the shellholding sling I bought for it.
I need to buy more buckshot, and more slugs, though

My next purchases will probably be another .357 pistol and a .357 lever gun, though.

 

[R.H. Lee]

I've used both Barnaul HP and Wolf FMJ in my SKS and both work flawlessly. I don't know about the soft point stuff. I wouldn't worry about using FMJ, it feeds reliably, and any BG won't know the difference between HP, SP or FMJ IMHO.

Let us know if you buy the really cheap stuff and how it works.

 

[ARGarrison]

I think I'd stick to the HP ammo. It's cheaper and can double as a hunting round if needed. The only plus I see with the FMJ you listed is it's in a sealed tin. That way you can put it up and not think about it untill you need it. Either way your choice your money, but to me plinking ammo should be cheap.

 

[Mr Jody Hudson]

My decision has been fmj all the way. It is cheaper, usually more reliable feed, and if stuff happens then each shot will count and I won't be going for chest shot, like sport hunters do. I'll be going for head shots only, after making certain of my shot; one shot, not easy to spot... like the meat hunters do.

 

[Burt Blade]

I suppose it all depends on what you are preparing for.

I rather doubt we are going to wind up in some post-apocalypse survival-scifi scene. If I am wrong, I suppose I will just have to make do with what I keep for hurricane season, and as much gumption as I can muster.


The enemy likes impersonal, mass-casualty attacks. We are far more likely to see a truck bomb than a suicide squad. You best bet is going to be spotting a problem, and then moving away from it before the idiot yanks the lanyard.


But, what if they do succeed in disrupting our society, or in provoking the government into doing it for them? What then?

Well, your everyday carry ammo, or hunting ammo, or target ammo, is going to be a pretty good thing to have. Whatever you practice with will be the stuff you can best use. if you are shooting low-cost stuff, to stretch the budget, hopefully you at least shoot a little bit of the good stuff.


In any case, you might have to solve one riot or several intruders looking for loot or groceries. In either event, a hundred rounds per weapon is probably more than enough. If you are doing your job right, You should not require more than 1-3 rounds per opponent. A single shot 12-guage and 100 rounds of OO buck will see you through most problems. You are probably better armed than that.

I shoot cowboy Action matches, so I plan to keep a minimum of 100 for the lever action, 100 each for the revolvers, and 100 for the shotgun. If I cannot save my butt with 400 rounds of ammo, then more probably would not have helped.


Conservation of ammunition during a crisis is one more reason to go practice, and before SHTF.

 

[No4Mk1*]

Hollow point 7.62x39 from Russia should not be considered expanding ammo. It is lightweight in the nose and will tumble 180 degrees, but I don't think it will expand. I am not sure if 7.62x39mm FMJ has a hollow nose and if so it will tumble early as well. Whatever you pick I suggest buying two cases. Use one for plinking and put the other away. I prefer FMJ but really I don't think it matters. You are paying extra for the sealed can which is important if you want to keep the ammo for 10-100 years. For short term storage (<10 years), boxed is fine.

 

[JamisJockey]

and will tumble 180 degrees,

In the air or in the target?
Airborne tumbling ammo is a myth.

 

[Checkman]

DIGGLER-

A couple of years ago a deputy made a "routine" traffic stop. The vehicle took off after the deputy stopped it. He pursued and the two cretins in the car began shooting at him. I remember that it was a night shift on a Saturday. I was on duty and the pursuit came right through our city. I believe the pursuit eventually pulled in probably a dozen units from three different jurisdictions.

I could hear them (the suspects) shooting as they approached town - even over the car sirens. Eventually they t-boned another car (still in our city) and the chase ended. Ironically the driver of the other vehicle was drunk and had just run a stop sign. Nobody was hurt and all three of them went to jail.

Anyway the point is the bad guys were using Ruger 9mm's. They were shooting hardball ammo( I believe it was 115 grain Wolf ammo) and struck the deputy's car several times. I personally observed at least five of those rounds in the engine hood. The rounds never penetrated the hood all the way. Another round struck the windshield and was deflected (due to the windshield's angle probably).

Now I suppose this could of had something to do with the angle, the fact that the bad guys were shooting from a moving vehicle at another moving vehicle and a whole bunch of other physics, but I've never forgotten how ineffectual the penetrating ability of the "high velocity" 9mm hardball was. Actually this goes with all hardball. Personally I'd stick with HP's in my handgun - whatever the caliber.

Oh by the way the two bad guys were running because they were suspects in a drug investigation which they were aware of. Ironically the deputy didn't know anything about it (the whole thing was being done quietly) and neither of them had a warrant. If they had just stayed cool the deputy would have written them a ticket and they would've been on their way. So much for criminal masterminds.

 

[Diggler]

I'd agree as long as we're talking about handgun ammo, that's all I'd carry. But I really don't think that a 30 cal. rifle bullet would be anywhere near the performance of a 9mm, and I'm sure it would go through at least one door if not both.

I've had centerfire rifle bullets go straight through 6" trees.

 

[Checkman]

I agree totally when it comes to rifle ammo. I have a fairly healthy stock of .303 British and .308 built up. It's all either military surplus or American Eagle. No soft points, partitions, ballistic tips etc. My 30-06 is soft point, but I came across a good deal and ran with it. It was free. But sometimes you might not have the luxury of carrying a rifle and the only thing you'll have available is a handgun. Unless your Chuck Conners in the Rifleman of course.

 

[No4Mk1*]

I was refering to tumbling upon impact, not in the air- which means your barrel is worn out.

 

[Red_SC]

I agree, No4Mk1. The hollow point bullets are not an expanding design, like in most other hollow points. BTW, I have 2 no4Mk1's. Nice rifles.

 

[foghornl]

I took a look at my Wolf ammo in both FMJ and HP. The HP appears to be the FMJ stuff with a tiny, and I do mean tiny, hole in the tip.

IIRC, there was only a 1 or 2 grain difference in the bullet weights.

 

[WhiteKnight]

he hollow point bullets are not an expanding design, like in most other hollow points.

This is the first time I've ever heard of "non-expanding hollowpoints."

What exactly is the use of the HP in these rounds? Fragmentation?

 

[pangris]

Any 7.62x39 round will leave a mark. Buy what shoots well in your gun!

 

[SteelyDan]

When we're talking about 7.62x39 rounds, the term "hollow point" does not mean what one might expect based on experience with, say, a .45 pistol round. The so-called hollow point is such a tiny little thing I doubt it has any significant expansive effect. I'd guess you get a bigger wound channel from the soft points, but I don't know that to be a fact. Frankly, there just isn't a whole lot of difference in any of the three common bullet types. I prefer the soft points, but I'm almost equally happy with the FMJs or the (cough) hollow points.

Just to clarify, I'm talking about Russian ammo here.

 

[mondocomputerman]

Check out this thread

 

[Red_SC]

This is the first time I've ever heard of "non-expanding hollowpoints."

What exactly is the use of the HP in these rounds? Fragmentation?

IIRC, it is just a byproduct of the manufacturing process, like a match bullet. A hollowpoint match bullet isn't designed to expand either, but it does quite well. They're made for the best consistency, and the process happens to leave a small hollowpoint. They also usually have a thin, soft jacket and a soft core. These factors help with expansion, but I don't think the the 7.62X39 bullets are that soft, so they wouldn't expand as well. I know I've found in my berm 7.62X39 HP's that looked like the nose had caught and turned the bullet sideways without expanding much. Others had expanded. I haven't found any soft points that did that, they all expanded. That's incidental, though, not a scientific test.