siamese 98 in 45-70

[eastbank]

any time you lean something new, does not mean you were wrong. only misinformed. eastbank.

 

[redbullitt]

mmm I would like to have one of those...

 

["Natty" Bumppo]

Gibbs.45-70 Enfield

i have the last model gibs made for navy arms,it has a numrich arms barrel ,it was sold by navy arms.
i have losded 52 grns of reloader 7 behing a 405 rem soft point and that is about all i wanted,but the action is a mkIII and holds up well.
we have about 5 45/70 we loas the gibbs is sweet,with it's fast enfield action,i just steped the load sown to 37 grns of 3031 and the accuracy is one min at woo yrds.
a great hog rifle ,with that fast sec and third shot.

here is a link to this gun;;;;;;;;;;;;
http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/GIBBS/GIBBS SUMMIT.htm

 

["Natty" Bumppo]

Gibbs.45-70 Enfield

i have the last model gibs made for navy arms,it has a numrich arms barrel ,it was sold by navy arms.
i have loaded 52 grns of reloader 7 behind a 405 rem soft point and that is about all i wanted,but the action is a mkIII and holds up well.
we have 5 45/70 we load the gibbs is sweet,with it's fast Enfield action,i just steped the load down to 37 grns of 3031 and the accuracy is one min at 100 yrds.
a great hog rifle ,with that fast sec and third shot.

here is a link to this gun;;;;;;;;;;;;
http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/GIBBS/GIBBS SUMMIT.htm

 

[Arizona_Mike]

i have the last model gibs made for navy arms,it has a numrich arms barrel ,it was sold by navy arms.
i have loaded 52 grns of reloader 7 behind a 405 rem soft point and that is about all i wanted,but the action is a mkIII and holds up well.
we have 5 45/70 we load the gibbs is sweet,with it's fast Enfield action,i just steped the load down to 37 grns of 3031 and the accuracy is one min at 100 yrds.
a great hog rifle ,with that fast sec and third shot.

here is a link to this gun;;;;;;;;;;;;
http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/GIBBS/GIBBS SUMMIT.htm

I'd read that there is room to bore these out to .45-90 or longer using .45 basic brass, or just throat them for long .45-70s.

Mike

 

[H&Hhunter]

i don,t mind recoil when shooting at game, and when sighting it or working up a load i use a lead sled with two 25lbs bags of shot to tame the recoil. eastbank.

Caution! When using a weighted lead sled with a heavy recoiling rifle you are simply begging for a broken stock. I have quit using lead sleds altogether.

 

[eastbank]

i put swievel studs on it yesterday and bore sighted the 4x leupold(may put a 3x leupold on it) and shot two shots(50grs imr 4198-350gr bullet) at a knot in a tree at about 75 yards. i was off the knot about 4 " but both were just about in one hole. shooting off the car roof, the kick was managable. it is lighter than my other siamese 45-70.eastbank.

 

[Llama Bob]

I'd read that there is room to bore these out to .45-90 or longer using .45 basic brass, or just throat them for long .45-70s.

Mike

You can. The magazine box and action is made for roughly 3" rounds. The biggest thing that will fit I THINK is Starline .45-100 2.6" brass with .45-70 gov bullets (max length past the case 0.4" which is the max for .45-70 as well). You should be able to make that chamber with a normal .45-100 reamer.

I've never actually seen this conversion, but extrapolating from my .45-90 dangerous game load, I think I could probably get 2200 ft/s for a 425gr Northfork solid (custom bullet) at 50KPSI. That compares to 2060 ft/s for the same bullet in a .45-90. It'd be a tough load though - all the good powder options would be very compressed, so a drop tube would come in handy.

 

[eastbank]

if loading black powder the longer 45 cases make some sense, but if not the 45-70 case is just about as good with smokless. the 350gr can be driven at 2200 fps in a strong action and i,m pretty sure the 400gr could be driven at 2100 fps out of a strong actioned 45-70. this 98 siamese and my ruger # 3 will both chamber and shoot the 525 gr postell bullets loaded to 3 inches. eastbank.

 

[Llama Bob]

The real issue is powder space, which for hot loads the .45-* runs out of. As long as you can load long, the case length on straight wall cases that headspace on the rim is pretty much irrelevant. Trim them to whatever floats your boat. However, you do need your bullet and case length to add up to your OAL. So if you've got .45-70 bullet with the canelure 0.4" from the nose, you need cases that are OAL minus 0.4". And of course a chamber that accommodates them.

With bullets like the Northfork, the longer case absolutely makes a huge difference - there's no way you can drive those big stopping load bullets at .458WM velocities out of a .45-70 case no matter what your pressure is, but you can do it out of a .45-100 #1 and probably out of the Mauser too.

Also note that the performance level I mentioned was conservative at 50KPSI. There's nothing preventing you from loading up to 60KPSI in the #1, and possibly in the Mauser but I'm not certain there so I didn't want to get people over-excited.

 

[eastbank]

the loads we are talking about will all take a strong action, no matter what. a 400gr bullet at 2100fps will not be much less powerfull than a 400gr bullet at 2200fps. and the standard 45-70 will toss a 400gr bullet at a little over 2100fps from a 24" barrel with 53 grs H4198 for 49,100 cup. for all i would gain useing the longer cases verses the standard 45-70 cases is not worth the expense of the longer cases. the 525gr postell is what i shoot thru my pedersoli sharps 74 target rifle,but only at 1350 fps with 31grs imr 4198. i mark my heavy loaded cases with a majic marker as i think they would wreck my sharps. eastbank.

 

[Llama Bob]

Any time you see "CUP" in loading data you should read it "pressure mystery units" instead

That aside, there's a BIG difference between loading the very short 400gr softs, and longer stopping bullets - the Northforks, Barnes Banded, Hornady DGS, etc. All of them are at least 0.2" longer. You have to get that powder space back somehow, and making the OAL (and along with it, case) longer is really the only option. You personally may not have use for it if you're happy with the loads you can get in your gun - others do have a use and want the larger cases and chambers.

 

[Llama Bob]

To give you an idea, that same 400 gr soft bullet in a .45-100 3" chamber at the same pressure, I could get 2390 ft/s with an equally temp insensitive Hodgdon extreme powder for a 27% increase in muzzle energy. Now, you might or might not care. But there's a big difference between a .45-70 2.55" and a .45-100 3" when you hold everything equal.

 

[eastbank]

of course your right, but for me the 45-70 loaded up is more than enough for my hunting needs with less expense. but if its not i would use my 458 ruger #1. eastbank.

 

[Llama Bob]

I can certainly get behind using a gun reasonable for what you want to do. There's no rule that says everything has to be an elephant gun.

One thing in favor of reaming out a Mauser's chamber though is that you can still shoot the shorter commercial (or cheap brass) loads. Accuracy can even be quite good. I've shot sub-MOA groups out of my .45-90 with commercial .45-70 ammo.