WVsig
Member
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2012
- Messages
- 2,063
The OP stated his brother was admiring a Sig 210 at "TriggerCon" last summer.
Correct me if I'm wrong but does this NOT imply that his brother was admiring a new-model 210? Therefore isn't the debate of whether a new 210 is good enough simply moot?
If he liked the new one he was glomming, I'm sure he won't care about differences - esoteric or otherwise - between generations or manufacturing points of the pistol.
Todd.
Look at the posts in this thread. Many people are conflating the two platforms.
I didn't misread your comments, WVsig. I'm just not sure that the Browning barrel/slide design is as important as you suggest. The newer version of the gun is somewhat different internally, but I am not convinced that the difference in barrel/slide lockup matters as much as you think it does. That's why I said the following:
I don't know. But, I don't believe the Browning barrel/slide lockup is the key. I am more inclined to believe that the extra attention paid to consistent lockup and fit with the Swiss and German guns accounted for their outstanding performance.
I've not seen anything that compares the performance of the older and newer versions of the guns, done by people who don't have a dog in the fight. I agree, however, that gun mag tests (American Rifleman included) are not sufficient. Most gun mag tests and evaluations seem to be more focused on creating advertising revenue than giving readers truly meaningful performance evaluations.
One friend had two P-210s, one of them came with a matching .22 top end. He eventually sold them because of severe hammer bite. Both of his P-210s came with tighter/smaller 5-shot proof targets than did mine. That told me that while the older SIGs were very impressive, they weren't all created equal.
I will note, too, that Sphinx, prior to moving their production to the U.S.(where Kriss-USA -- a U.S. subsidiary of Kriss-Switzerland, the firm that bought out Sphinx Systems Ltd.,) made a number of changes to the Sphinx design, focusing on CNC production methods. These changes were done to give comparable Sphinx performance standards while requiring less-costly hand work.
I wonder whether SIG has done the same?
I think the the Browning lock up matters just the way it does in a 1911. Again it does not mean there is not another way to skin that cat. Lets look at what effects accuracy on a 1911 and then apply it to the P210.
1. Minimize frame / slide clearance -- 15%
2. Install match grade barrel -- 10%
3. Fit / install accuracy bushing -- 20%
4. Minimum chamber headspace -- 10%
5. Eliminate rear barrel side play -- 20%
6. Consistent full barrel lug engagement -- 20%
7. Beyond reach -- 5%
To me 40% of the of what makes a 1911 accurate has to do with barrel lock up and engagement. Again not that you can't do it another way but with skilled craftsman like the Swiss this is why the old P210 is what it is.
It is possible that Sig is getting equal performance out of the new P210 but I have not see a factory test target at 50 meters from a US produced P210 like the one I posted. I have not seen any verifiable testing over 25 meters. The Swiss guns ability to do that was not just the stuff of legends. As to the Sphinx IMHO is a great comparison. The current US made Sphinx SDPs are not as good as the Swiss made ones from just a few years ago. The new SDPs are not as good as the old Sphinx guns. They changed them not to make them better. They changed them to make the cheaper to produce for the mass market. A true Sphinx from Switerland will cost you $4800+. I believe the Sphinx analogy is spot on. The SDP made in the US is full of compromises to hit a price point. They are great guns I own 2 of them but they are not on the same level as the guns that came before them with the Sphinx name and are not the equal of the guns made in Switzerland today.
https://edelweissarms.com/sphinx-3009-compact-duotone-1787/
I am not trying to piss on the OP. The current Sig P210 will be an awesome present to his brother. My comments are informational because everytime the P210 comes up it seems like 50% of the people commenting do not know the history behind the gun and are viewing them as equal which IMHO is exactly what Sig hopes you do. Anyway I am out on this one OP I hope your brother loves the P210 and it serves him and his family well.
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