Sig P238 Range Report and a new kind of failure.

[Jed Carter]

Used pistol with recoil spring installed backwards, worn extractor, would be my guess.

 

[SavageSig]

I had a 238 that I bought brand new. This is not operator error. This is one of the craptastic lemons that Sig has been cranking out.

First, the mag follower. Sig has redesigned it about twice now. Check with CS, they will give you the latest mags in exchange for the ones you have.

Second, the extractor. Yes, my pistol also had extractor issues, as in it wouldn't extract reliably brand new. After one trip to the factory, it was sent to me RIPPING spent casings. Yes, my spent brass had giant tears down the side. And they weren't even extracting properly, jamming every couple of rounds with incomplete extraction. I sent it back again and when it came back I just sold it.

Third, there is something going on with the recoil spring and guide rod on these pistols. My 238 had a catastrophic failure similar to yours, except it also jumped over the guide rod. I sent it back and they deburred and installed a new spring and "tuned" my extractor to give me the problem stated above. I wanted a new gun but they refused. Gun came back to me and developed the SAME recoil spring issue along with the extraction issues. Even though I'm pretty sure the manual does (or did not) state that the recoil spring must be installed in one direction, I knew enough about pistols to know that this was the case. I would not trust these pistols in a self defense situation.

 

[MisterMike]

I have not even the smallest iota of gunsmithing knowledge, but I'd reiterate the point above that the recoil spring is installed backwards. I recall an earlier thread in which a P238 problem was reported and this was the problem.

 

[Tommygunn]

Savagesig's post prompted me to retrieve the instruction manual to my Sig P238. I have heard enough about the necessity of putting the P 238's recoil spring on correctly that I felt sure the manual would state that to be the case.
To my surprise, it did not.
Which is very odd. To be sure, it didn't say anything about removing the spring from the guide rod, but since there is no real attachment (other than it is held captive by the rod and it's position in the gun when assembled) between the rod & spring, it would appear to me that the writers did not plan the manual appropriatly. The spring is clearly larger on one side than the other, and there certainly must be a reason for this, as other semi autos I possess have normal tubular springs, not conical shaped ones.
The small end should be against the base of the guide, and the large end abuts the muzzle end of the gun.
In the OP's photos, this appears to have been reversed, as earlier posters have said. Now, I don't know how this happened, but if it was Sig that did it, they should stand up and repair or replace the weapon as necessary to make the OP whole again.

I believe the Sig P 238 is a good design, and when properly assembled and maintained will be perfectly suitable for self defense or plinking, or whatever is a suitable purpose for a small .380ACP weapon. Remember that when the slide retracts, the barrel will tilt down on the cam, and if it is tilting down on the fat end of the spring, it will scrunch the spring, which seems to be what happened in the OP's post. If the barrel tilts down on a properly aligned spring, there's plenty of space and nothing bad happens. Atleast, IMHO that is how things are working in this gun.

This mainspring issue is a bit of an oddball type of thing, but other guns do also have their quirks.

But, shame shame on Sig for NOT being MORE EXPLICIT(!!!) in their manual!!!!!

 

[kokapelli]

I just got off the phone with Sig service. Of course they claim no knowledge of a recoil spring problem but he said the recoil spring has been updated whatever that means!

Since my P238 is only 3 weeks old he said it should have the new updated spring.

I went ahead and ordered a 3 pack of the new spring which costs $12 and some change but the shipping charge is high. I think he said around $15 for shipping.

 

[wally]

I went ahead and ordered a 3 pack of the new spring which costs $12 and some change but the shipping charge is high. I think he said around $15 for shipping.

Sheesh, my Kel-Tec P3AT cost half as much, and when the extractor broke they dropped one in the mail to me for free!

 

[EAJ]

I took it to the range and immediately found an issue. I had purchased several sig mags to go with it, and I found that the extra mags were different then the one mag that came with it.

The mag that came with it (top) is the older design. SIG redesigned the mags. The second photo displays the new design. The older design works in most P238's however it can be problematic with some pistols. I have several of the older ones and they function fine in my P238.

 

[kokapelli]

Sheesh, my Kel-Tec P3AT cost half as much, and when the extractor broke they dropped one in the mail to me for free!

This isn't acase of a failed part, my recoil spring hasn't broken and when I needed to replace my P3AT recoil springs I had topay for them.

Kel-Tec has good service but recoil spring replacement is normal maintanence.

I still have my P3AT but it's at KT because the guide rod hole at the front of the slide has enlarged and the recoil spring is popping through it.

My P3AT was a good buy at $249 but it's no P238, not even close.

 

[EAJ]

[QUOTEI just got off the phone with Sig service. Of course they claim no knowledge of a recoil spring problem but he said the recoil spring has been updated whatever that means!][/QUOTE]

I believe that the new spring has a few more coils and is more similar to the Colt Mustang spring. Wolff Gun Springs

That's a handsome stainless model you have there; good luck with the fix.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Well, it is on its way back to SIG. Once I told the tech the serial number and that I was having problems he basically started taking my name and address and said send it back. We went over the problems, but I could tell he already had heard it and knew the issues.

The bottom line seems to be that there are some soft slides out there and some poor parts. Mine was a Friday gun, but it must have been late in the day on Friday.

A couple of thoughts. One thing that occurred to me was how thin the sig spring is when compared to the colt spring. Look at the diameter. That is one flaw. The extractor is just mis-made. You can see how it should have been cut from the Colt comparison.

They told me 3 weeks so there must be a queue of them. I suspect they are all the same problem. I suspect they will just replace the whole top end and send it back. It will be interesting to see.

It is funny. I got the gun to take the wear and tear off my Colt Gov 380 and then I proceed to shoot 500 odd rounds out of my Gov 380 because the SIG crapped out. Oh well, this has been my first SIG failure, lets see how their customer support works.

 

[bannockburn]

Peter M. Eick

That's what I was thinking of doing as well; retiring my old Colt Mustang with one of the SIG P238s. Maybe I will just wait a while now and see if the bugs can be worked out of it. I still think it's a great design (never have had any problems with my Mustang), just perhaps the SIG is in need of a little better quality control.

 

[HOWARD J]

My sig P-238--purchased 11/09 has an orange card in the box
*8.0 maint. addendum: narrow end of spring on the guide.
Installed backwards will result in damage to the spring box.
When I received mine I had FTE--polished chamber with Dremel--no problem after that.

 

[LightningMan]

Tommygunn Quote; The spring is clearly larger on one side than the other, and there certainly must be a reason for this, as other semi autos I possess have normal tubular springs, not conical shaped ones.

The reason I suspect is so the spring can compress a bit more than a spring the is the same diameter front to back. This spring has to compress down to about 1/2 an inch, or so. When I got to messing around looking for some sort of replacement spring, I tried fitting a straight length heavier wire spring, but every time I got it in place, it wouldn't work. I could not pull the slide back far enough to lock it open. (couldn't compress the spring enough) I gave up on that idea. LM

 

[ruger1228]

Savagesig's post prompted me to retrieve the instruction manual to my Sig P238. I have heard enough about the necessity of putting the P 238's recoil spring on correctly that I felt sure the manual would state that to be the case.
To my surprise, it did not.
Which is very odd. To be sure, it didn't say anything about removing the spring from the guide rod, but since there is no real attachment (other than it is held captive by the rod and it's position in the gun when assembled) between the rod & spring, it would appear to me that the writers did not plan the manual appropriatly. The spring is clearly larger on one side than the other, and there certainly must be a reason for this, as other semi autos I possess have normal tubular springs, not conical shaped ones.
The small end should be against the base of the guide, and the large end abuts the muzzle end of the gun.
In the OP's photos, this appears to have been reversed, as earlier posters have said. Now, I don't know how this happened, but if it was Sig that did it, they should stand up and repair or replace the weapon as necessary to make the OP whole again.

I believe the Sig P 238 is a good design, and when properly assembled and maintained will be perfectly suitable for self defense or plinking, or whatever is a suitable purpose for a small .380ACP weapon. Remember that when the slide retracts, the barrel will tilt down on the cam, and if it is tilting down on the fat end of the spring, it will scrunch the spring, which seems to be what happened in the OP's post. If the barrel tilts down on a properly aligned spring, there's plenty of space and nothing bad happens. Atleast, IMHO that is how things are working in this gun.

This mainspring issue is a bit of an oddball type of thing, but other guns do also have their quirks.

But, shame shame on Sig for NOT being MORE EXPLICIT(!!!) in their manual!!!!!

I knew I had read in my Owner's Manual for the P238 about the proper way to install the recol spring. It is on page 38 at the bottom of the page. There is a box stating:

"IMPORTANT: Make sure the wide end of the spring is inserted into the slide first with the narrow end on the guide. Installing the spring backwards will result in damage to the spring box. To ensure optimal performance, the Recoil Spring should be replaced every 1,500 rounds.

I did look at the PDF manual that Sig has on their website and the is NOT on that manual. Maybe they decided they needed to put this into the manual after they had so many complaints about the Recoil Spring.

 

[Guns and more]

My stock magazine looks like the bottom picture. I bought two more from Top Gun Supply and they also look like the bottom. All have been flawless. I'm not sure which is the stock any more. I've never seen a Sig 238 with the flat follower like the top picture.

 

[ruger1228]

Other than a few FTE and some Stovepiped casings, my 238 has not had any major problems. I like the gun and it is great for a pocket carry gun. My main problem with the gun is the HARD trigger pull. I took it to a gunsmith. He was able to smooth the action of the trigger but could not reduce the trigger pull from the 9# that it came from the factory with.
Any one have any solution on reducing the trigger pull weight?
Thanks for your help
thom

 

[dryflyelk]

i've put about 500 rounds through mine, in a variety of flavors, and I have yet to experience 1 malfunction of any kind. It has been perfectly reliable.

I'm sorry to see you've had these issues. I hope sig takes care of you. Keep us updated.

 

[Tommygunn]

I knew I had read in my Owner's Manual for the P238 about the proper way to install the recol spring. It is on page 38 at the bottom of the page. There is a box stating:

"IMPORTANT: Make sure the wide end of the spring is inserted into the slide first with the narrow end on the guide. Installing the spring backwards will result in damage to the spring box. To ensure optimal performance, the Recoil Spring should be replaced every 1,500 rounds.

I did look at the PDF manual that Sig has on their website and the is NOT on that manual. Maybe they decided they needed to put this into the manual after they had so many complaints about the Recoil Spring.

Hmmm. checked my manual again; it only states something about the recoil spring being under pressure and not to allow it to be released or it might cause injury.
There must be different versions of the manual out there ... .... ... . ......... . .

The spring is clearly larger on one side than the other, and there certainly must be a reason for this, as other semi autos I possess have normal tubular springs, not conical shaped ones.

The reason I suspect is so the spring can compress a bit more than a spring the is the same diameter front to back. This spring has to compress down to about 1/2 an inch, or so. When I got to messing around looking for some sort of replacement spring, I tried fitting a straight length heavier wire spring, but every time I got it in place, it wouldn't work. I could not pull the slide back far enough to lock it open. (couldn't compress the spring enough) I gave up on that idea. LM

That sounds like a very likely possibility. There would be only a tiny amount of space there, and a conical spring would allow for it to collapse inside itself; therefor a longer more powerful spring could be used which would be better than a short one, which might be too weak.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Well SIG has it now. It will be interesting to see what they do and say. My whole goal was to be able to retire my Colt Gov380 from carry duty and replace it with stainless steel and a gun with easily available parts. I was hopeing on SIG so lets see what they do.

Seems like a lot of 238-HD's are having issues.

 

[Dolph92]

My SO has a 238 no issues at all with it. We probably have 500 rounds through it now. Looks to me like you got an older gun. The rounded mag follower is what we received on the original and the extra we purchase. The spring looks different from your mangled one and we too have the warning about putting it in wrong.

Hard to tell because its all twisted and messed up but it appears to be a backwards spring in the unit.

 

[kokapelli]

I'm just back from the range this morning and put another 150 rounds of Speer Gold Dot, American Eagle fmj and Walmart white box flat point and still not a single malfunction of any kind. I love this pistol!

I also fired 36 rounds of the WW flat point and PMC fmj through my TCP with the very last round failing to go into battery but a slight rack of the slide fixed it.