Sight Picture - Why is mine different?

[Rustler]

I'm mostly a Cowboy shooter (Single Action's) but sometimes like to play with my 1911 at a Wild Bunch match.

I seem to shoot the 1911 low most of the time and yesterday was not an exception. The difference was I had someone help my figure out why.

First he shot the gun (and he can shoot) and determined the gun was fine (no doubt in my mind). It's the shooter...

Next he watched me to see if I was jerking the trigger or pushing the gun down. I was holding and shooting like you are supposed to - but still shooting low! :banghead:

Then he said - it's your sight picture. I told him I was was sighting just like I have read and talked to others on how they sight.

Front sight level and between the rear sights.

|----| |----| |----|
|xxxx| |xxxx| |xxxx|
|xxxx| |xxxx| |xxxx|

He said change it - Bring up the front sight.

Front sight above and between the rear sights is what I see now.

-------> |----|
-------> |xxxx|
-------> |xxxx|
|----| <-------> |----|
|xxxx| <-------> |xxxx|
|xxxx| <-------> |xxxx|


Dang If I didn't start making center hits!!

Is this common to shoot with the front sights above the rear sights, or am I just weird??

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Sounds like you need a shorter front sight or a taller rear sight.

 

[rcmodel]

Not if the sights are set where they are supposed to be.

A "normal" sight picture is the front centered in rear notch, with top of front level with top of rear.

If it's XS Big-Ball, Express, or whatever they call them, all bets are off.
They don't work right if you know how to shoot normal pistol sights!


rcmodel

 

[Rustynuts]

Were you shooting point of aim or 6 oclock? If you were shooting 6 first and it needed POA, then you'd shoot low.

 

[Rustler]

As I mentioned my buddy shot the pistol and the sights are fine. This guy is old as dirt (retired marine) and can shoot the eye out of a fly at 50 yards...

He said the sight picture was fine. It has to be the shooter and not the gun.

I was aiming center mass on steal targets.

Just wondering why I would need to hold the front sights higher than is "normal"?

Note: This is a Kimber TLE.

 

[rcmodel]

If it's fine for him, and it shoots that low for you, the only logical explanation is you are anticipating the shot and pushing, flinching, or jerking the trigger.

Have him load a snap-cap in a magazine so you don't know when it will come up and see what happens to your sight picture when the shot (snap) breaks.

You might also take a look at this:
http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files/TargetRightHanded.pdf


rcmodel

 

[Rustler]

He was watching me (and a few others), and everyone agreed I was not jerking the trigger or the gun.

Based on the replies, its not common to shoot this way so I think it's just me and the way I shoot -

I'm going to go play on paper and see where the shots are going.

 

[alucard0822]

Barring jerking the trigger,a flinch or some technique related issue, most pistols use one of three sight pictures. I would try shooting off of a rest, or rest the butt on a table top, while concentrating on trigger control and see if the POI changes dramatically. I adjust target pistols to POA, I like defensive pistols to have a 6 oclock POA too see more of the target, My Beretta M9 has the run-the-dots picture, and while quite accurate, I don't care for that picture too well, and the long range pic is about where I hold my kimber target II at 100 yards loaded hot, or my 686 loaded mild.

 

[CNYCacher]

Sounds like your gun is set up for him and not for you.

 

[GLOOB]

Hey, I use that sight picture when shooting fast. But i anticipate the shots to go high. When sights are level, that's where the shot should go.

 

[Flak_Jakett]

You should take into account that everyone sights different. If everyone saw exactly the same down the barrel then there would be no need for adjustable sights. Guns would be manufactured and mechanical zero and there would be no need to sight in your rifles before hunting season. But, people have different eyes. This could be part of the explanation.

 

[HammerBite]

His grip is different than your grip. There is no reason to expect both of you to shoot to the same POI. An "experienced shooter" is good only for comparing group sizes.

Note also that he didn't say that he shot with the front sight high, he told you to shoot that way. Any fool could have told you that, with equal validity.

 

[TallPine]

A M1911 does the same thing for me.

I think it has something to do with the fact that the trigger slides back instead of swinging back like a revolver.

 

[Deanimator]

Make sure that you are FOCUSSED on the front sight ONLY.

The rear sight and the target should be out of focus and fuzzy.

Focussing on anything other than the front sight will give inconsistent results.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

If everyone saw exactly the same down the barrel then there would be no need for adjustable sights. Guns would be manufactured and mechanical zero and there would be no need to sight in your rifles before hunting season.

That would only be true if everyone shot the exact same ammunition and wanted their rifles zeroed at the same range.

 

[spwenger]

It's Pretty Rare...

...for different people to see the sights differently although some people may not grasp what a sight picture, viewed in two dimensions on a sheet of paper, should actually look in three dimensions. What many shooters fail to grasp is that the gun is already in recoil when the bullet leaves the barrel. Thus, most sight adjustment in handguns (assuming everyone is using the same ammunition) is related to differences in grip, not vision.

Implications of the fact that the gun is in recoil when the shot leaves the barrel include:

• Most handguns will actually point below the line of sight when the shooter takes aim.
• If you consistently push forward with the same pressure in anticipation of the shot, you will shoot low and may not take note of a pattern in your group, such as vertical stringing or, more likely, stringing low and to the non-dominant side.
• Letting the finger fly off the trigger as the shot is fired tends to loosen the grip and makes for inconsistent recoil, enlarging groups as well as accounting for an awful lot of what is attributed to "limp-wristing" when autoloaders fail to cycle properly

 

[birdbustr]

Looks like your shots were hitting low, and you brought up the front of the barrel to compensate for it..... nothing weird about it, especially if there is no elevation adjustment.
You may also "dipping" your shots. Anticipating the recoil by pushing forward. If I am shooting from a quick draw (not like a cowboy or anything). I do it on the first shot by about 3 inches low due to the double action and longer pull required for my H&K .40 compact. I just aim a little high for the first shot.