Simple berm/backstop for private shooting, using brush?

[Esoteria]

Hello all. I tend to be long-winded with these questions so I'll try to keep it brief.

I also realize there have been several topics on this subject but I feel like the majority of the discussions turned into constructions that would run several thousand dollars if not the 5 figures, which is just not feasible here.

I have about 18 acres currently being used as a tree farm. Just last week I had precommercial thinning done which has left a tremendous amount of brush and small (1-2" diameter) trees on the ground. In the next few weeks, I have a guy coming out with a dozer that will clear me a driveway and some area to shoot. Won't get into the specifics of the area, but suffice it to say that anything beyond birdshot would be unsafe to shoot without a solid backstop.

So my original plan was to set up a berm at the back of the clearing for rifle, maybe 20' wide and 6' high. (like I said, can't spend crazy amounts of money on this). I was going to use the brush that this guy has to clear as the basis of the berm and fill it in with dirt and/or cover the front of it with tires.

Doing more research has led me to believe that using this brush, no matter how thick it may be, is a bad idea for this backstop, even if the dirt/tires are the actual stop, because it may deteriorate over time and I'll have a unsafe pile of stuff in a few years.

I was also going to do a separate U-shaped pistol area with the same basic idea and height. Since doing the extra reading I've decided that I should probably just consolidate everything into a single shooting area that can support rifle shots in the main backstop.

Question 1:
So I've heard many people say that backstop heights of 15' are the minimum, which just seems WAY out of my price/effort range. Obviously with a shorter backstop I can't have man-height targets set up out there, but that's okay. I also have to make sure I don't ricochet something off the ground, but that basically just means no action shooting with carbines and whatnot. Overall, for private, supervised shooting, is 6' high viable?

Question 2:
This guy has got to put all the brush somewhere. I'd like to make use of it if I can. What about using the brush + dirt + (tires?) plan for some side berms? If they disintegrate over several years, no big deal. I can re-invest in those if I'm really doing enough of that type of shooting to justify it.

Question 3:
How much should I expect to pay to get a berm that height if I can't find tires (and it's all just loads of dirt trucked in)? Again, 20' wide (maybe 15' truly shootable) and 6 or 7' high is the plan.

Question 4:
Any other suggestions? I'm trying to do this on a budget, obviously, but at the same time I ultimately want low maintenance. If it's a matter of dropping an extra $700 on "doing it right," it's worth it.

(Addendum) Question 5:
For the "U" shaped shooting area, what about drainage? Should I just make sure I have a slight grade leading out the opening?

I'm especially interested in hearing about anyone else in a similar situation and what you did, and definitely how much it cost to do it. Part of me wants to just pay for a single load of dirt, throw it on top of the brush pile, and only shoot in the 4'x4' safe area for a while. =)

 

[AlexanderA]

The brush pile would not make a good backstop. Covering the brush with a thin layer of dirt would not change this. It might even give a false sense of security that you have something solid there. I think you need solid, compacted dirt at least 3-4 feet thick and maybe 20 feet wide and 6-7 feet high. The wood and/or tires might be useful for retaining walls.

 

[Jason_W]

The concern I would have with incorporating any sort of biodegradable material into a berm is that over time, that material will decay and soften. A pile of mixed fill that stops bullets this year may not stop them next year.

If the guy with the bulldozer is going to be on your property anyway, how much extra will it cost to have him push a bank of plain old dirt into position for you?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

My vote is wood and tires for the retaining wall, count on sufficient dirt/clay to stop the bullets.

Dirt over a brush pile may leave hollow spaces with no resistence.

 

[armedandsafe]

We did a similar thing many years ago. We learned two things of interest to you.

1. The brush will decay and collapse over time, reducing the height of your berm. We were in a desert climate, so it took a couple of years. If you are in an area with more precipitation, it will happen faster.

2. Either lay the tires at least three deep, offsetting each layer from the one below to make sure you don't have "holes" for the bullets to find their way through with only one tire slowing/stopping them. OR, set the tires upright with the tread facing the firing line.

Pops

 

[Potatohead]

If the guy with the bulldozer is going to be on your property anyway, how much extra will it cost to have him push a bank of plain old dirt into position for you?

This may depend on what type of Dozer the gent has, or the extensions at least, whether or not he can even do it.

 

[we are not amused]

1. Unless you are talking a professional for profit gun range,(and your are not) 15 feet for a backstop is ridiculous! I don't want to shoot with anybody that is such a bad shot he needs that much backstop!

2. You can if you want to. I don't consider side berms worth the effort, unless you are very pressed for space or are surrounded by densely populated area.

3. You will have to get local estimates for that.

4. Depending on drainage, consider having the dirt scraped up into a pile, with a pit in front of the berm, sloping back to where you plan to shoot.

With twenty acres of land, you could probably scape up dirt from your own land to build the berm, without trucking in dirt.

Actually, I like the idea of starting with a small backstop and expand it as cash and need dictate.

I would burn the brush, and not bother with trying to incorporate it to a berm, unless I used it around the shooting area for sound abatement, probably not worth it.

Most advice you get here is worth what you pay for. And a lot of people seem to spend a lot of time and effort trying to come with a ridiculous set of specifications for a gun range that even most professional gun ranges couldn't meet.

What you need to consider is how bad a shot you are, and anyone you intend to have shoot with you. I have seen people use a 3 by 2 foot backstop for 150 yrd shooting, because they were confident of hitting their target. (they were shooting in a relatively unpopulated area, with a large open area behind them).

Use some common sense. Consider where an errant shot might go, and would it be a danger to any one else.

 

[Esoteria]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Let me give clarification on a few things and mention something else I forgot:

1) Using the brush in the way I described, I would still be adding enough dirt to stop the bullet (8 inches or more on either side, so not including the brush resistance 16 inches, should be plenty to stop anything I'm going to be shooting), The brush would serve mostly to increase the height of the backstop without it being solid dirt.
[EDIT] To clarify, although this was my plan, I've now been convinced it's not a good idea. Just wish I could do something with all the brush.

2) Theoretically a smaller dump truck could get in there once the drive is cleared.

3) There's not really dirt already on the property to move. It was clear cut in 2005 and has grown in since. It'd probably be more challenging to dig a hole and move dirt than it would be worth, vs buying it.

I appreciate the replies. I'd like to get more thoughts, but I'm especially thankful for the gentleman who had the same setup. If it only lasted a few years before collapsing in your climate, then mine (North Carolina) has no chance. Feels like you're swimming instead of walking due to the humidity here sometimes.

I realize it may vary considerably, especially by region, but does anyone have a ballpark price for bringing in that volume of dirt? It's quite possible the same guy could do some of the building after dropping the dirt there.

[EDIT] Just saw We Are Not Amused's reply, and wanted to acknowledge. Seems like everyone's on the same wavelength about brush not being worth it for anything I want to do here. I'm also becoming more convinced of the "start small and expand" strategy. It means doing it right, but small, to start.

Still open to more thoughts, but this gives me a good base line. Thank you all VERY much for your input!

 

[leprechaun50]

Here's a couple of options. Not knowing where you live, but check with some local excaveting companies. Some times they will have dirt they are happy to get rid of. Another option is the Minnesota DNR used to have plans on their website for building a "shooting box" with railroad ties and sand. I was lucky enough to get about 12 truckloads of clay from a neighbor. As he lives only a mile away the dirt and trucking only ran about $200. Borrowed a Bobcat from my renter and pushed up a U shaped berm thatis about 30'L X 12'T. The bare clay is ugly but it works.

PS: burn the brush.

 

[Chuck R.]

I agree with the others, brush isn’t the way to go, unless you put a lot of dirt in front.

I’m lucky (smart?) in that I bought property with a hill. For my main pistol range/rifle back stop I simple dug into the hill and graveled the floor making a 30x30 pistol range and a backstop for 100-500 yards. IF you count the hill, my berm is about ¼ mile deep. It's only about 10' tall though, so my tolerance for knuckleheads at my place is severely limited, and there's no shooting unless I'm there. (about 60' if you count the hill)

For two smaller berms, I used a skid steer and pushed up dirt to about a 6’ height with about 4-5’ thickness. It took all of 15 minutes to make two of these berms. Again, I still have more hill behind them so the berms are mostly there so a spotter can see the misses. As a friend of mine that works construction says “dirt’s cheap, it’s getting it here that will cost you”, and he’s right, you’re better off scraping off some top, or digging on the site. I don’t know your location, but around here fill dirt is about $300 per load delivered.

Pistol/rifle backstop:


Turkey Swinger berm at 385m


200-300 bench:


I would talk to your dozer guy and see what you can work out. he can probably push you up a decent berm with some grading for drainage in just a couple minutes. You can then add to it as time/money allows. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither are most private ranges.

Chuck

 

[Esoteria]

That's a really nice setup you have there, Chuck.

Sadly my land is fairly flat. It does grade up slightly in the direction I'm shooting but it's so slight and consistent that you can't really tell. I'm not so sure there's that much dirt to scrape, and the dozer guy said as much when we were mapping out where to clear, but you guys bring up a good point that there's such a small (time) investment to give it a shot vs trucking dirt in that it's gotta be worth trying.

I've been wrestling with railroad ties vs tires, and as I don't really care about appearance it probably comes down to what's available. With the tires I can pretty much do the work myself (slowly), but I have to be able to find quite a few. I did some quick math showing that for 10' wide and 6' tall, and two tires deep I need over 120 tires (!). That's like a half dozen loads by pickup, and I end up with a relatively small backstop at the end of the day. Could probably get away with single deep if I can fill in the narrow spots somehow....

 

[buck460XVR]

With only 18 acres on flat ground with neighbors close by, you need more than a 6' high berm. Within a few years of rain and shooting into it it will be down to 4'. If you shoot standing and shoot over the berm, the shot will be almost level and a danger to anything immediately behind it, and with a centerfire, possibly a thousand yards beyond. That's without any added elevation or ricochets. Tires are a eyesore and in some areas, it's illegal to bury them. I would check with local authorities before I buried them. Do a dirt berm and do it right for safety's sake. If you can't afford to do it right then don't do it at all. Start shooting with regularity into a direction of anybody/anything without a proper backstop and sooner or later, a bullet will get out, a neighbor will start complaining or both. Believe me, even with a proper backstop, start shooting every/every other weekend and odds are, a neighbor will make a complaint. Been there, done that in two different counties myself. Both times, had a county mountie come out after a neighbor(one was a mile down the road) complained about all the shooting. Both times, once it was established that I was shooting safely with a proper backstop, on hundreds of acres of private land and legal to own a firearm, I never was visited again. Don't know what would have happened if I had just been shooting into a pile of brush. If there was 80 acres of solid woods behind you, it might be different, but even then you should have an appropriate backstop. If possible, elevate the area you will be shooting from, and go 8-10 feet high with your berm. It doesn't need to be wide or long, but you do need to make sure a bullet will not get out.

 

[armedandsafe]

Fellow in a neighboring town once made a range outtatown. He dug a trench about 50 feet wide and 150 yards long. When town began to encroach on him, he dug deeper and wider. The first time I visited there, about 40 years ago, it was 150 yards long, 50 feet wide, concrete lined and covered, with a parking lot on top and a full service gun shop at one end. All under his parking lot.

How deep is your bedrock?

Pops

 

[Esoteria]

@armedandsafe
Hah! Pretty sure I'd have a nice rectangular pond pretty quick if I did that out there. Soil doesn't perc and it's been raining cats and dogs all summer.

@buck460XVR
It's a fair point about going high enough with the backstop but shooting 3' high would require some pretty terrible marksmanship at the 100 yards absolute max I'd be shooting.

Elevating the shooting position is something I hadn't thought of. Could always shoot out of the back of my car (station wagon). =)

At least with the tires plan, erosion reducing its height should be of minimal concern, but like I said, the availability of so many tires remains to be seen. As for burying them... well... I wouldn't be. They'd still be exposed with dirt fill inside.

Completely different side note:
I had this idea that if I built the tire backstop properly such that it created a fairly straight wall, I could nail a few pieces of old or damaged drywall onto the front, then paint it and have the drywall either hold targets or be the target itself. Of course it would disintegrate pretty quick, so maybe another material would be better. I just like the idea of walking up to the backstop and painting a target on there with spray paint. =)

 

[Fremmer]

Scoop out a pit (doesn't have to be real deep) and use the dozer to grade the dirt and use the dirt you scooped out.

 

[horsemen61]

I'm tagging this thread for later thanks guys

 

[orionengnr]

Is there any way to get a wood chipper and turn all that brush and those small trees into a chip pile? A lot more dense than just loose brush, and might serve as the basis for your berm...or at least the first layer. As it degrades, it turns into mulch/dirt. Takes an awful lot of brush to make a decent pile.

Also solves the problem of brush disposal in a practical and beneficial way.

 

[MartinS]

No. If you have to ask if you backstop is good enough, it ain't.
It should be immediately obvious.

 

[medalguy]

I agree a wood chipper is the best way to get rid of the brush. It's no good for a backstop or even a filler.

I made a backstop out of railroad ties in a U-shape, about 7 feet high and it ended up almost 12 feet across the front and 6 feet deep from the front to the back ties. I filled it in with fairly clean sand (no rocks) and used a piece of 3/4 inch thick rubber stall mat (Tractor Supply) nailed across the front to retain the dirt at least 3 feet high in the front and sloped up behind that. That reduces any erosion and it's cheap and easily replaceable when riddled with holes. Works very well for me.

 

[oneounceload]

Scoop out a pit (doesn't have to be real deep) and use the dozer to grade the dirt and use the dirt you scooped out.

That's what they do here in FL (talk about flat land!), going down about 4'over the course of several hundred yards, add a few truck loads and you can get your berm higher than 6 feet. If your water table isn't as high as FL, have him scoop out deeper. Burn the slash pile, it isn't much good for anything unless you need some of the smaller trees for firewood

 

[Potatohead]

I'm with Buck, dem tires gon be U-G-L-Y !

 

[JTHunter]

The wood chips could be put on top of the berm to help control erosion until the grass/weeds cover it.

 

[Esoteria]

So you're suggesting grading down to the backstop, and then using the dirt to build up on top of it, right?

__________,,,--^|
. . . . . . . . . . . . |_,,,--^^'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Back . . . . . Berm . . . Pit . . . . . . Front

Excuse the horrible ASCII art, this forum gets rid of a lot of characters

Assuming the "pit" above is fairly long (25 yards plus?) and ends at least a couple of feet deep, wouldn't this be pretty intensive to pull off? And wouldn't I have a pool of water about half the time in front of the backstop?

Maybe it's easier than I think with a dozer to dig down there....

I guess the other plus side to this method is that erosion is a smaller issue. Probably wouldn't need as much support as building straight up from ground level.

 

[Ignition Override]

Is there any type of thick metal mesh layer produced which is large enough, yet affordable, as a back-up to the main 'berm'?

If penetrated, it would certainly change a bullets' path and increase the drag, instability.

 

[labhound]

Railroad ties approx. 7' high, 12' across the front, two dump truck loads of dirt
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