Single Action Recoil?

[Ohio Rifleman]

I read this on the Wikipedia article about the .44 magnum cartridge, and I just want to know whether it is entirely true.

"This cartridge has a natural home in single action revolvers like the Ruger Super Blackhawk and some autoloading handguns like the Desert Eagle. The single-action designs tend to "rear up" when fired and tame the recoil a great deal, while the gas system of the autoloading weapons absorbs and buffers recoil significantly. Double action revolvers tend to transmit more recoil to the shooter's arm, causing it to be perceived as more harsh."

Thoughts? I'm actually looking to get a revolver at some point in the future, not sure when, but if true, this would be a major selling point for me to get a single action.

 

[Bula]

It's true. A SA Revo grip allows the gun to roll back in your hand. You'll still 'know' you shot a 44 mag. DA revo's tend to recoil straight back, thus increasing your felt recoil.

 

[RecoilRob]

The 'plow handle' on most SA revolvers CAN allow it to slide a bit on firing. This reduces the SMACK of heavy loads a bit but is limited in usefullness IMO.

If you allow the pistol to rotate too far, you end up with it sticking out of your forehead. So you still must hold onto it pretty firmly and really heavy loads feel like, well, really heavy loads.

My SBH trigger time includes some wicked nasty handloads and they WERE nicer to shoot in the Ruger than the Smith 629...but were still wicked and nasty.

And, the DE's kick less because of their weight and the way they operate. Having a rotating bolt and very long slide travel allows them to spread out the recoil impulse vs more traditional tilting barrel pistols. The gas operation allows the rotating bolt (just like a rifle) so I guess it IS fair to say it helps with the recoil reduction....but the gas itself doesn't do it like Wiki implies.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

So the reduced recoil has more to do with the handle design than with any internal fucntioning of the gun? By the way, why do single action revolvers have that distinctive handle? I can pick out single actions just by looking at them, as most shooters worth their salt probably can too.

 

[highlander 5]

I just went to the range to try out my newest toy a Ruger Super Blackhawk standard Ruger grip frame but 4 5/8 ' barrel this is a wrist wrencher no two ways about it I plan on having a Bisley trigger,hammer and grip frame fitted to this pistol I have 2 other Bisleys and find the grip much more comfortable to shoot.
I don't know about anyone else but the standard frame always jams my little finger

 

[tipoc]

" By the way, why do single action revolvers have that distinctive handle?"

There's a long answer and a short. The short; It allows the gun to roll up in your hand under recoil, this roll places the thumb much closer to the hammer and makes it easier to recock the piece rapidly and than resume your shooting grip. You'll notice on double action revolvers that there is a hump at the rear top of the grip. This hump inhibits the gun from rolling up in your hand and allows you to fire rapidly in double action without breaking your grip. The lack of the hump in the single actions makes cocking the gun easier.

There are several types of single action grip frames and of course variations on those standards. The basics are; The standard plow handle, as on a Colt and it's clones. The Bisley. And the birdshead.

A trip over to the Ruger website will show you variations of these.

tipoc

 

[Jim March]

The SA was designed for one-handed operation on horseback. That affects it's recoil handling. BUT it has to fit your hand at least somewhat well. Which is why Ruger has so many grip sizes available.

Personally, while it wouldn't be traditional I would prefer to see Ruger standardize on their Bird's Head and then provide wood grips to fake the "plowhandle" and "Bisley" shapes in a variety of sizes. This is what S&W does now with their DAs: they only make "round butt" grip frames and then use the "squarebutt conversion style" grips pioneered by Hogue for anybody who wants the more traditional DA S&W shape.

 

[moewadle]

You could buy a DA

revolver than have the choice of shooting it DA or SA, or at least that is the choice with most of them I think. I have a SW Model 10-5 made in 1975. I love shooting it and do it both ways at the range.

 

[SnWnMe]

The correct answer here is: It's Wikipedia. ANYONE can edit it.

In fact it is not an accepted reference for academic work. Nor for serious firearms discourse such as this

 

[deadin]

My first .44 Mag was a SBH. I couldn't hit crap with it after the first 10 or 15 rounds. (Big-time flinch. I couldn't even drop the hammer on what I knew was an empty chamber without flinching. ) I figured I was just a wimp and the gun was too much for me, so I got rid of it. Several years later I picked up a M29 and had no problems whatsoever with the recoil. I could burn up boxes of ammo with no sign of the "flinch".
So, I would say that the grip can make a huge difference, for good or bad, depending on the individual. I apparently can't get along with a gun "turning" in my hand and prefer absorbing the recoil with my arm and shoulder.

Dean

 

[22-rimfire]

It is mostly personal taste. Perceived recoil is different. I prefer double action revolvers. But I sure would like to have a new Freedom Arms single action.

 

[foghornl]

I have tried some Seriously Stout loads in a couple of different style .45 Colt revolvers.... The 'traditional' Ruger Blackhawk, and a Birds Head Vaquero. Haven't shot a Bisley-gripped one...yet.

I found the Birds Head grip gave more 'roll' than even the standard Blackhawk grip, making those Barn Burner loads easier to handle...at least for me.

I alos verified this with a 44Mag Super Blackhawk vs the Birds Head Vaquero. Not exactly an apples-to-apples test, since it was .44Mag vs .45Colt. Again, the Birds Head Vaquero was more comfortable to shoot for me, but Your Mileage Will Vary. Your favorite might be the Bisley style.

 

[svtruth]

My $.02

Have a Redhawk with aftermarket rubber grips and a Bisley Vaquero, both in .44 mag. The recoil is about the same, authoritative, but manageable with regular 240 gr magnum rounds. Buffalo Bore stuff up to 300 gr is substantially more.

 

[fecmech]

I own a Ruger SBH single action and have shot literally thousands of 250gr. bullets @1300fps out of it. As previous posters have said the gun rolls up in your hand and that disapates some of the recoil. I tried the same loads out of a friends S&W Model 29 with target stocks and gave it back to him after 6 shots. The gun for me was painful to shoot hitting the bones in the palm of my hand at the base of my fore finger. Were I you I would try and shoot some different .44's before purchasing if I could and decide for yourself.

 

[RonJon]

A huge difference!

When I bought my Super Blackhawk Ruger it came with these rubber grips:

Not only did it look crappy with them, it would actually tear skin from the web of my hand when firing full-house .44 magnums (Ouch!).

So, mainly to improve the looks of it, I ordered these laminated wood 'plow handle' grips with the Ruger logo directly from Ruger. They were a perfect fit!

But the big news is that they made a HUGE difference in felt recoil!!!

Now I can shoot full-house magnum .44s with no pain at all!

Ron

 

[Shawnee]

Hi Ohio Rifleman...

You've gotten a lot of good posts already so, having used the Ruger SBH a lot, I'll risk adding some esoteric input.

With heavy 44 Mag loads, even with 180gr bullets, this gun can provide some very unpleasant torque along with that nice, comfortable roll-up into your hand. The key to eliminating almost all the torque is to simply watch and be precise about how you put the gun into your hand and how your wrist is aligned.

When people talk about .44 Magnums it reminds me of golfers when they draw their driver from the bag. Swinging that club with anything less than every ounce of their strength simply never crosses anyone's mind when they are on the tee-box and clenched onto the driver (don't ask me how I know that! :banghead: . Howsomever - .44Mag owners have some good news in their hip pockets. The .44 Mags will also shoot .44 Special ammo and that is really quite comfortable to shoot, often cheaper, and makes practice sessions much less skeleto-hazardous. Even some more good news about the .44 Special - ammo loaded with cast lead bullets is (relatively cheap, and accurate) and "good" ammo like Winchester 200 gr. Silvertips is very authoritative even though it is pretty comfy to shoot. Time and time again I have seen the 200 gr Silvertip hollow point go clear through 3" of treated lumber at 20 yds - and that is not "Wimpy-R-Us" in my book. My SBH is the 7.5" barrel flavor (I bought it long ago) and, if I were to buy another today, I would get a slightly shorter barrel just so I had more choices of cases and holsters. BUT...I shot a Ruger SBH with a custom 4.5" barrel and the muzzle blast was more concussion than blast. So I would go with a 6" or 5.5" barrel... nothing shorter. And if you can't find one - don't rule out the same gun in .41 Mag. because they are standard in 6" barrels and they are quite nice!

I happen to have preferred the Ruger SA over the DAs and the Desert Eagle mostly because it is an easier gun to carry/handle and the time I have to spend doing that is a lot more than the time I get to spend pulling the trigger. Also, I got my pistol-shooting start with a Ruger Super Single-Six so the transition to the Ruger Blackhawk came pretty natural. But most importantly - I grew up with Roy Rogers and the Ruger Single Action just "looks cool" to me.

So,as you've guessed, my 44 cents worth is to get the Ruger Super Blackhawk and Enjoy!

 

[Confederate]

I prefer the D/A guns. I don't like the grips found on S/A revolvers, but it's a personal choice. Most people shoot their double action guns single action anyway, so it's whatever you like. I wish Ruger would round the trigger guard. I do like the rubber grips, though.

The higher the cylinder is over the shooting hand, the more the gun will roll. The Redhawk's cylinder is higher than the Smith & Wesson's, so it will have a different feel. If the cylinder is lower, you'll get a hard push.

If you carry the gun and use it in the field, the 629 is hard to beat. For target shoooting, anything works.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

Thanks for the advice, Shawnee. I'm a little leery about shooting .44 or .41 magnum anything because my only handgun experience is shooting a Ruger P-series 9mm. Which, by the way, feels very awkward in my hands...but when I fondled a S&W 686 at a sporting goods store, it felt perfect. It had the plain ol' rubber grips. I guess the solution is to fondle and/or shoot as many wheelguns as I can get my hands on.

I was also thinking I don't want a revolver with a barrel much less than 6". I'm not 21 yet, so I really don't care about CCW. I don't need a super-rugged gun, as I don't hunt or anything, but I do like the Ruger GP-100. Just want a revolver for target shooting and home defense, should the need arise. I'm also a college student, and college students are, by definition, poor.

By the way, I've done some reasearch, even emailed the BATFE, and they said it's legal for me, at 19, to OWN a handgun, it is illegal for me to buy or attempt to buy a handgun from a FFL.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi OR...

Nothing at all wrong with the 686 !! I used one in competition for 2 years and liked it a lot (though I had some excellent work done on it too).
Another Single-Action option is the regular Ruger Blackhawk in .357.
It will also shoot 38 Specials just fine (as will the 686) and that will reduce noise and recoil a LOT. And even if you don't reload your own ammo, there is plenty of inexpensive .38 Special lead bullet ammo being marketed to practice with.
I used to teach classes in home defense/self defense with firearms and two important things I told every class were:

1. The best defense weapon you will ever have is between your ears.

and...

2. If your defense plan begins with picking up your gun you've already forfeited 75% of what you could do to protect yourself and your family.

An Thass a Fac, Jac !

Used to have a friend who had been a street cop in San Antonio for years and years. He and his cop friends used to say they really didn't worry much if they faced a bad guy armed with a .44 magnum but, if the bad guy showed up with a .22 rifle they got REAL uptight because they knew it's a heck of a lot easier to hit someone with a .22 than with a .44 mag. Make sense to me!

Good luck to you and enjoy that target practice, OR !!

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

I agree, the 686 is a nice gun, just pricey. If I can get something reasonably good for a reasonably low price, I'll be happy. Been thinking about Taurus, maybe a GP-100. I need to get another job..soon!

 

[Shawnee]

Hi OR...

Can't say about the Taurus guns but I know the GP-100 has legions of fans. And while you're "shopping" be sure to take a look at the Ruger Security-Six and the Ruger Speed-Six models too. They have sorta been the unsung heros in the shadow of the flashier GP-100 but they have had plenty of admirers too ever since they came out back about 1980 or so. One of my sons has a Speed-Six he has shot probably one or five kabillion target loads through without so much as a hint of a problem.

No matter what you get, enjoy !!

 

[bakert]

I know some of the more macho types will disagree but personally I wouldn't reccomend a .44 mag as a first revolver. Be it single or double action, the suckers do kick. Because of difference in people hands some grips or even some types of guns are easier to shoot for some folks than others. Even a glove of some kind makes a difference. I like the .44 but I use a lightweight fingerless driving glove most times with a .44 mag if I'm going to shoot more than one cylinderful of full power ammo.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi Bakert...

I gotcha beat bigtime in the "Pansy Dept.", Bakert!!...

About 97% of my practice shooting is with a 22 Super Single-Six, then comes 2.5% with .44 Specials out of my SBH, and then I'm ready to touch off a handful or two of the full-power .44 magnums.... just enough to get sighted in for that load and then to the deer blind.
God knew what he was doing when He told Bill Ruger to make that .22 revolver! An Thass a Fac, Jac !

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

I am very reluctant to get a .44 mag because it'll be my first revolver, but I'm also not sure about a .22 revolver either, since I'd like something I can "grow into." For a long time I've been leaning towards a .357 mag revolver. I just need to get my hands on some of these guns for myself to see what feels and shoots best for me, and what's the most fun to shoot... Who knows? Maybe I'll have more fun shooting a .44 than a .357?

 

[bakert]

Quote> "God knew what he was doing when He told Bill Ruger to make that .22 revolver! An Thass a Fac, Jac !"
Shawnee, I really like that single six too. Only problem I have is I'm kinda fumble fingered when trying to load them little buggers in them little bitty chamber holes.

Ohio Rifleman,
Nothing at all wrong with a .357. It's one of the best all around calibers. They're powerful and nothing to sneeze at with the heavier loads. I don't own a single action in .357(yet) but do have 2 DAs, a S&W 66 and an older 66 Taurus and both have given me very good service. If you could find away to shoot both kinds of gun in .44 and 357 before you buy one it might help you make up your mind.