Single Shot Pistols

[WestKentucky]

I always (still do) wondered what would happen with an unchoked smoothbore what the difference would be if using a modern shot wad, and perhaps an artificial shot clustering agent (elmers glue) to help hold the shot together a bit better.

 

[aarondhgraham]

Some of my very best memories are,,,
When I had a pair of matching muzzle loading pistols.

Take a friend to the range,,,
Show him/her how to "front stuff",,,
You will have a worthwhile day to remember.

Aarond

.

 

[ThomasT]

Truth, seven to ten (sounds like a prison sentence) is about it for shot loads. Good for when grouse go into that "dumb mode", or just sit in a tree. Probably not going to "roll a bunny".

I wonder if, or how much better one could do, or improve on that, with a smooth bore. ? Have always wanted a British Sea Service pistol to try that out.

Remember on a shotgun the best patterns happen when the pressure of the powder charge is spent before the shot load exits the barrel. If the powder charge is still pushing it can blow a hole in the center of the pattern. I suspect thats why a longer barreled SG patterns better. Not because of the longer sight radius but because by the time the charge reaches the end of the barrel the load is in coasting mode. I am NOT a SG expert but have done some reading on them.

So with a handgun's short barrel I doubt you will ever get a really good pattern with a shot load no matter if it is from a smooth bore gun or not. The powder charge will still be pushing hard especially with as slow as BP burns in a barrel. But a load with larger ball sizes may not be too bad. I have a bag of #1 buck (.30 cal) and it would be fun to try that in a smooth large bore pistol. I want one of the Lee molds that cast #4 (.24 cal) buck for loading in my 20ga SG. But they have been out of stock for a very long time. I'm on the Notify Me list at Midway when they do come in.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I always (still do) wondered what would happen with an unchoked smoothbore what the difference would be if using a modern shot wad, and perhaps an artificial shot clustering agent (elmers glue) to help hold the shot together a bit better.

Funny you should mention it. I read once that the market hunters, using punt-guns, would mix tallow in with the shot to improve patterns.

So, I experimented with mixing different lubes in with the shot, in those little shot capsules you load in .44 mag/spl cartridges, and .357/.38spl cases. The experiment worked, it did improve patterns. The trouble I found was that the mix had to be right for the temperatures. When it got real cold, the shot and lube would clump together, and if cold enough an almost a solid mass. Too soft, and not much improvement. There was kind of a temperature "zone" where they worked.

ThomasT I think you are on the right track, I believe there's kind of a narrow "window' of velocity where you get your best patterns. With pistol cartridges such as the .44's and .357/38's I seem to recall that the suggestion is to not load them over 1000fps. But I think if you played around with the charge enough one would find the sweet spot. If one's pistol bore would take a modern shotgun wad, that might help a lot. In my Brown Bess Carbine, a 12 gauge plastic wad, inside a paper tube, (and filled with shot of course) fits perfectly in the bore and produces very good patterns. Three dead turkeys will attest to that. I also mix shot sizes, mostly #4 birdshot, but pinches of 6's, and 7's. Possibly in a pistol, just the paper tube would help. And maybe a buffer?

 

[damoc]

Ugly sauce I tried some of my bullet lube on top of shot in a blackpowder 12 gauge load It hit the target in almost a solid lump. So I think you are correct it may need just the right mix to get this to work.

 

[AntiqueSledMan]

Who doesn't have a Single Shot Pistol?
Here's mine, a Lyman Great Plains Pistol on top, in .50 caliber.
A CVA Mountain Pistol in the center (I can't take credit for assembly but I do plan on restocking someday), also a .50 caliber.
And last a pretty rare CVA Pioneer Pistol on the bottom, (I did assemble this one, my first kit) in .32 caliber. Fun to shoot.

AntiqueSledMan.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Ugly sauce I tried some of my bullet lube on top of shot in a blackpowder 12 gauge load It hit the target in almost a solid lump. So I think you are correct it may need just the right mix to get this to work.

Right, I heard of lots of others that get that same result, shot stays in one solid mass. Needs to stay "creamy" or "greasy". Which, as mentioned, is a challenge as temperatures drop.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Who doesn't have a Single Shot Pistol?
Here's mine, a Lyman Great Plains Pistol on top, in .50 caliber.
A CVA Mountain Pistol in the center (I can't take credit for assembly but I do plan on restocking someday), also a .50 caliber.
And last a pretty rare CVA Pioneer Pistol on the bottom, (I did assemble this one, my first kit) in .32 caliber. Fun to shoot.

AntiqueSledMan.

Them is some cool pistolas. Always wanted a light, small bore single shot pistol for a small game or "bunny roller" gun. Now I've filled that nitch with a little 1862 Colt revolver. Maybe someday I'll stumble across a "deal". !!!

 

[arcticap]

Them is some cool pistolas. Always wanted a light, small bore single shot pistol for a small game or "bunny roller" gun. Now I've filled that nitch with a little 1862 Colt revolver. Maybe someday I'll stumble across a "deal". !!!

I've had a number of single shot pistols over the years but only kept this "bunny roller."
However it isn't light since it was designed to be a switch barrel:--->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...der-picture-thread.362575/page-2#post-5539048

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Dang! That would roll a bunny at 600 yards.

 

[ThomasT]

I had forgot about it but my bud who is a real BP fan has an unfired CVA Crocket pistol in 32 caliber. At one time he wanted me to list it on gunbroker for him but he never brought me the gun. He doesn't like it because the grip is sort of fat and bulbous in the hand. He is a delux wood carver and I told him to just strip the finish and reshape the grip to his liking.

 

[TTv2]

Funny you should mention it. I read once that the market hunters, using punt-guns, would mix tallow in with the shot to improve patterns.

So, I experimented with mixing different lubes in with the shot, in those little shot capsules you load in .44 mag/spl cartridges, and .357/.38spl cases. The experiment worked, it did improve patterns. The trouble I found was that the mix had to be right for the temperatures. When it got real cold, the shot and lube would clump together, and if cold enough an almost a solid mass. Too soft, and not much improvement. There was kind of a temperature "zone" where they worked.

ThomasT I think you are on the right track, I believe there's kind of a narrow "window' of velocity where you get your best patterns. With pistol cartridges such as the .44's and .357/38's I seem to recall that the suggestion is to not load them over 1000fps. But I think if you played around with the charge enough one would find the sweet spot. If one's pistol bore would take a modern shotgun wad, that might help a lot. In my Brown Bess Carbine, a 12 gauge plastic wad, inside a paper tube, (and filled with shot of course) fits perfectly in the bore and produces very good patterns. Three dead turkeys will attest to that. I also mix shot sizes, mostly #4 birdshot, but pinches of 6's, and 7's. Possibly in a pistol, just the paper tube would help. And maybe a buffer?

I was thinking that maybe a way to improve patterns in a short barrel would be to mix shot sizes. Using all the same size allows more space between shot, so say instead of just #4 add a varying percent of 8 or 9 shot and test it. We're talking about, at most, maybe have the payload being 8-9 shot and while it's not best for certain game, it may be the most effective way to get the best performance for shot out of a smoothbore pistol.

Use of buffer might be good too, but when we're dealing with effectively short barrel 28 gauge shotguns we want to get as much lead on target as possible.

Perhaps Pedersoli Howdah owners might be able to chime in on this.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Wow! That would be rough. A permit for an old front stuffer. And now a judge won’t sign off on them? That’s just crazy. I guess they are the new gun of choice for the budding gang banger.

You know Horace Greeley once said “ go west young man, go west”. Sounds like good advice to me.

---
Horace Greeley also hired Karl Marx to propagandize the American public in the ways of Communism. Mark wrote weekly columns for Horace Greeley’s New York Tribune from October 25, 1851, until Greeley fired him (for praising President Lincoln too often and with too much enthusiasm) in 1862. Horace Greeley was neither a wise nor good man.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

There are lots of threads on BP revolvers but you don't see the single shots mentioned much. I have a couple of CVA Single Shots in .45 caliber that I really like. And I have wanted a Lyman Great Plains pistol in 50 caliber for a long time but have never found a deal I liked on a used one.

The Traditions Kentucky pistol looks nice and the prices seem to run in the $230 range for them brand new. So does anyone else like or use the single shots?

---
I have one of the "dueling pistols" with the breech-loading turn-off barrel.


More fun than should be legal.

 

[ThomasT]

Horace Greeley was neither a wise nor good man.

Maybe so but he was correct about going west. Gotta give it to him for that one.

If you like dueling pistols have a look at this video. There are some really beautiful guns shown.

 

[Pocket]

Speaking of single shots, I thought my 1851 " Navy" 44 from Cabelas, was a single shot.. shoot once cap jam, shoot once cap jam.

I put it in the junk drawer for almost a year. Then finally got the kinks out of it.

My favorite is my vest pocket derringer. Sometimes my little 44 screw barrel.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I have built three pistols with kits from Pedersoli that I bought from Dixie Gun Works. I have a .45 and 2 .50 calibers. One cap gun and two flintlocks. They are fun to shoot but I haven't had them out for a couple of years, hopefully with my pending retirement some global warming I will be able to get them out again.

 

[WestKentucky]

Right, I heard of lots of others that get that same result, shot stays in one solid mass. Needs to stay "creamy" or "greasy". Which, as mentioned, is a challenge as temperatures drop.

So why not use this novel invention known as...grease

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I believe most grease will harden up in cold temps. ? Maybe pure tallow doesn't, I don't know, never used it. And of course, if you start out with super greasy grease, and things get too warm the runny greasy grease might get into the powder. I'm sure there's a magic formula, but considering that normal non-greasy kid stuff shot loads work "okay", (they have provided me with more than a few grouse dinners) I decided to move on to other things. !!!!

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

It's been a while, but I've made paper shot cups that seemed to improve the pattern in my Howdah.
I wrapped copy paper around a dowel and used Elmer's glue to make a cylinder.
I compressed a couple sheets of TP with the dowel inside a cut off shotgun hull to make a wad. (I can't recall what I used as a binding agent, but it wasn't a wet sticky mess, but I do recall letting it dry and have some form)
Then when the two parts were dry, I glued the wad in the base of the cylinder to make a cup.

I'm pretty sure I got the idea from someone posting something similar.
I'm still mostly a hack at the BP shotgun thing but it is fun, and I really like taking the side by side out after bunnies.

 

[doubleh]

This is a pistol I built from a CVA kit and fancied up a little bit.I have never fired it.





This is a Mountain Pistol I built from another CVA kit. Lots of smoke when it fires.



This is the baby of the bunch and from another CVA kit. It has never been fired.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Want I should fire it for you? That sure is nice.

 

[Acorn Mush]

This is a pistol I built from a CVA kit and fancied up a little bit.I have never fired it.

View attachment 977999

View attachment 978000

This is a Mountain Pistol I built from another CVA kit. Lots of smoke when it fires.

View attachment 978003

This is the baby of the bunch and from another CVA kit. It has never been fired.View attachment 978002

I really like the inlays you did on your flinter. Simple and tasteful, and your workmanship looks VERY nice. Now, (heh heh) for why have you not fired it?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I think he's waiting for me to fire it. I'll be on the lookout for the big brown truck starting tomorrow.

 

[ThomasT]

That wire inlay looks fantastic. Did anyone notice the checkering on the Derringer? My friend has the same gun and when he worked for the county he was looking at a bridge to be widened and he had that gun with him. He was far out in the country and decided to shoot the gun. So he loaded up and shot the guard rail that was to be replaced. He said it blew a hole through the rail big enough to stick your finger through. Don’t underestimate the power of these guns.