Small 380 with Hammer, External Safety and works DA/SA?

[12Bravo20]

If I knew you could buy a full blown Walther PPK only with a higher standard of finish for $180 new back in the early 2000's I would have bought 20. Mine is an APK in .380 acp, maybe a waste since I load 9mak anyway for a PA-63. FEG made some incredible pistols.

I must add mine are very reliable and extremely accurate.

I still have my FEG PA63 that I bough 23 years ago. The FEG's are nice pistols and accurate. The only complaint I have is the recoil can be stout with the PA63 due to it being chambered in 9x18 and having an aluminum frame.

And with any PP/PPK or clone, one has to watch how they hold them to keep from getting slide bite. It is just the nature of the design and shape of the grip.

 

[bigmike45]

This is my wife's Walther PK-380. It has been her favorite gun for almost a decade and she is surgically accurate with it. When she took her Texas CHL she was tearing a ragged hole in the paper target. The administrator asked her to spread around her shots because he had to make sure all 50 rounds were on paper, so she proceeded to do the same in the head section of the silhouette used for scoring. It has a great trigger and she fell in love with it when she picked it up at the gunstore due to the grip and how it felt in her hand. It has never misfired or jammed in any way through several thousand rounds. There have been several women and men with small hands that she allowed to shoot the gun and all but one own them as well. I personally think Walther should send her a commission on how many she has sold for them.

 

[entropy]

There is also the Beretta 1934 model and the Beretta 70 series that came in .380 as well as 22lr and 7.65.

My 1935 model which was the 7.65 version:
View attachment 1170486

and my 71 which is also in 7.65:
View attachment 1170487

The 380 versions were the same size as the other calibers.

But those are single action. The Mauser HSc fits the requirements, though getting a little long in the tooth. My Taurus TCP almost fits the bill, but like the S&W Bodyguard 380, is DAO.

 

[hso]

Good thread!

 

[lee n. field]

The Makarovs are also basically PP/PPK "clones". Most of them are in 9x18, but some of the Russian commercial ones were in 380. I have one and it's been excellent.

Bulgarian Arsenal brand commercial Maks could also be had in .380. Those were distinctive for having a squared trigger guard. Not sure by this time if any of the other commercial (ie. non milsurp) Makarovs were in .380.

My one remaining Makarov is a Russian Baikal .380.

 

[irishlad]

The photograph shows single stack magazines. Are you sure it's not a model 85F?

You are correct, I fixed it . Thanks

 

[chicharrones]

Just remember that true Double Action Only cocks a fully rested hammer and releases it for firing. Double strikes are possible with DAO or SA/DA guns.

A bunch of modern long travel trigger guns simply finish the cocking process of a semi-cocked hammer, like in the case of a LCP/TCP. Or in the case of a LCP Max, the trigger doesn’t even cock the hammer, it just releases it like a true single action.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have had a Colt Mustang since the mid-1980's. It is a soft shooting pistol and easy to learn to hit targets reliably out to 80-100 yards once you figure out the Kentucky windage required. But it is single action only.

My original Mustang has been retired but I have a new production Mustang and a Kimber Micro that I use when I feel a small gun is in order. They shoot much like the original Mustang.

I wish more micro guns were available with DA/SA triggers. My main full size carry pistol is an H&K P30SK with the v3 (DA/SA) trigger. With practice, I;ve learned to be quite accurate with the first strike DA pull with the second strike SA pull.

The practice made DA only revolvers such as the S&W Centennial series pistols a viable option. I like my 642/442 J-frames with moon clip capabilities at certain times.

 

[C0untZer0]

Is the lack of an external safety a deal breaker?

 

[Barmcd]

This is my wife's Walther PK-380. It has been her favorite gun for almost a decade and she is surgically accurate with it. When she took her Texas CHL she was tearing a ragged hole in the paper target. The administrator asked her to spread around her shots because he had to make sure all 50 rounds were on paper, so she proceeded to do the same in the head section of the silhouette used for scoring. It has a great trigger and she fell in love with it when she picked it up at the gunstore due to the grip and how it felt in her hand. It has never misfired or jammed in any way through several thousand rounds. There have been several women and men with small hands that she allowed to shoot the gun and all but one own them as well. I personally think Walther should send her a commission on how many she has sold for them.

I think that is a little bigger than I'm looking for.

 

[Barmcd]

I have had a Colt Mustang since the mid-1980's. It is a soft shooting pistol and easy to learn to hit targets reliably out to 80-100 yards once you figure out the Kentucky windage required. But it is single action only.

My original Mustang has been retired but I have a new production Mustang and a Kimber Micro that I use when I feel a small gun is in order. They shoot much like the original Mustang.

I wish more micro guns were available with DA/SA triggers. My main full size carry pistol is an H&K P30SK with the v3 (DA/SA) trigger. With practice, I;ve learned to be quite accurate with the first strike DA pull with the second strike SA pull.

The practice made DA only revolvers such as the S&W Centennial series pistols a viable option. I like my 642/442 J-frames with moon clip capabilities at certain times.

I just discovered the Colt Mustang and really like the gun. It ticks a lot of boxes, but I have never carried an SA gun as a defensive weapon. There's a lack of comfort and competency that would make me uncomfortable carrying one.

 

[lawboy]

Why the desire for a manual safety AND DA action? Seems the manual safety would open up the advantages of the SA action and trigger. Also, all of the DA guns are blowback designs which have significantly more felt recoil than the locked- breech SA guns. Also, most if not all the blowback 380s suffer from a drastically reduced power range in terms of the ammunition they can safely fire without prematurely opening the breech and causing bulged and ruptured cases from pressures that are too high for the unsupported case walls. Just some things to be aware of as to why manufacturers moved away from blowback DA 380s in later years. Better mousetrap in the opinions of many. I like the Sig.

 

[usp9]

Don't forget the wonderful Daewoo DH380. The all steel, good sights, 8 round mag, Walther PP copy made by our Korean friends.

 

[Armybrat]

I have nothing against DA, and think the Colt Mustangs & Government .380 pistols are good as anything out there..

 

[Old Dog]

The Mauser HSc fits the requirements, though getting a little long in the tooth.

28 posts before the Mauser came up! Yes, it's long in the tooth. The one I owned in the early '90s was beautifully crafted, fit and finish, bluing all impeccable. However, the DA trigger was hard, the ergonomics of the pistol are horrible, and (in my experience), the HSc has about the snappiest recoil of any small .380 I've ever fired. It just wasn't fun to shoot; coincidentally, it went away in favor of a PPK/S, which I also no longer have.


My favorite small DA/SA .380 is the SIG P-230/232, and yes, no manual safety, only a decocker.

But to go a little bigger, my favorite DA/SA .380 are the Beretta 84/85 pistols. Such cool pistols, far more ergonomic and easier to shoot of the .380s, alas, for most of us, they're just too big for the caliber...

 

[12Bravo20]

The Walther PP/PPK and clones are going to have a pretty heavy double action trigger pull. And I can see the Mauser being that way too. It's the nature of the design. And yes you can change springs to lighten the DA trigger pull but go to light will cause other issues.

 

[trackskippy]

I had a couple of PPK's prior to getting my first SIG P230. The difference in shooting them was like night and day. The Walthers have a more narrow grip, which didnt help much with recoil, and they were blood thirsty critters to boot, and I cant remember ever shooting them that I didnt have a bloody hand at the end. Their DA triggers were heavy, but shootable, and the SA triggers were good, and the guns were accurate.

The SIG's though, had a better set of hand-filling grips that made the recoil much more comfortable and the guns more stable in your hand, a factory DA trigger that people pay extra money for, they are equally as accurate as the PPK's, and for me, they point more naturally, and they dont draw blood when you shoot them.

The German versions of the PP's/PPK's are good guns. I had one of the Interarms PPK/S's, and had a lot of trouble with it, and it had to go back a few times and they never did get it to work right. Never had any troubles (other than the blood letting ) with the German PPK or either of my P230's.

 

[Old Dog]

had a couple of PPK's prior to getting my first SIG P230. The difference in shooting them was like night and day.

Word.

My PPK/S was an Interarms, which I got rid of when I got out of my Bond phase (after the latest silly Roger Moore flick); I later got nostalgic and briefly owned the S&W version -- horrible, horrible, horrible pistol. Did I mention it was horrible?

 

[halfmoonclip]

SIG P230/232 come pretty close. No actual safety, but they do have a decocker.

If you really must have this pistol with a manual safety, there are a few overruns for the Japanese police. They are in .32, but they do have a manual safety that works while the hammer is at rest.
I've had this pistol in .380 as well; it is blowback, and hence a little snappy, but not as bad as the Walther.
Moon

 

[trackskippy]

I missed one of the Japanese police guns back in the late 90's. They were asking $400 for it at the time, which was a bit salty, and I said Id think about it. When I looked into it when I got home, and realized what it was, I went right back, but it was already gone.

Two things that work great together, the P230 and the Galco "Executive" shoulder holster. Two bad both have been discontinued.

 

[kje54]

RIA Baby Rock.

 

[Hasaf]

The Taurus PT-58s

DA/SA	Yes
Frame mounted Safety	Yes
External Hammer	Yes
Small	. . . well, compared to a Desert Eagle . . .

 

[Barmcd]

Why the desire for a manual safety AND DA action? Seems the manual safety would open up the advantages of the SA action and trigger. Also, all of the DA guns are blowback designs which have significantly more felt recoil than the locked- breech SA guns. Also, most if not all the blowback 380s suffer from a drastically reduced power range in terms of the ammunition they can safely fire without prematurely opening the breech and causing bulged and ruptured cases from pressures that are too high for the unsupported case walls. Just some things to be aware of as to why manufacturers moved away from blowback DA 380s in later years. Better mousetrap in the opinions of many. I like the Sig. View attachment 1171042

Familiarity mostly. I haven't ever carried a SA gun and at almost 70 I don't think I'd put in the work to become confident in its use. I sure do like some of those SA 380s though.

 

[Tallball]

I've heard good things about that Taurus model. It's a clone of the Beretta 84, made in the old Beretta factory.

The Sigs are okay. Not a whole lot better than my Hungarian clone to shoot, but it's prettier.

Sig P230

• Tallball
• Jan 23, 2018

 

[kje54]

Familiarity mostly. I haven't ever carried a SA gun and at almost 70 I don't think I'd put in the work to become confident in its use. I sure do like some of those SA 380s though.

BTW, that Baby Rock is going to be a little snappy, it's small. My larger 380 is the venerable Beretta 85BB, not as concealable but I love mine. If you're concerned with recoil the Taurus PT-58 or the Beretta 85BB is the way to go.

Taurus PT-58

Beretta 85BB