Smallest 9mm?

[Mad Jack McMad]

Which is the smallest 9x19mm Parabellum pistol?

I mean, there must be more 9mm "mouseguns" than those at this chart http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf (9mm on page 2), and the two projects the Boberg XR9S and the Microtech Archangel, right?

The SCCY (Industries) CPX-1 was formerly known as the SKYY (Industries) CPX-1

Perhaps there are some more projects or unknown 9mm mouseguns?

Here is a ranked list that i made, only subcompact 9mm Parabellum guns:
(Smallest to highest length/height/width/weight)

Overall length:
1. Boberg XR9S (5.1")*
2. Rohrbaugh R9/R9S (5.2")
3. Kimber Solo (5.5")
3. SIG Sauer P290 (5.5")
4. Kahr PM9 & CM9 (5.6")
4. Kahr MK9 (5.6")
4. Kel-Tec P-11 (5.6")
4. Diamondback DB9 (5.6")*
5. SCCY CPX-1 (5.7")
6. Kel-Tec PF9 (5.85")
7. Ruger LC9 (6.0")*
8. Cobra Patriot 9 (6.0")*
8. Taurus PT709TI (6.0")*
9. Taurus PT111PTI (6.125")*
10. Springfield Armory XD Sub-Compact (6.25")*
11. Glock 26 (6.29")*
12. Walther PPS (6.34")*
13. STI LS (7.0")*

Height:
1. Kimber Solo (3.9")
2. SCCY CPX-1 (4.0")
2. Diamondback DB9 (4.0")*
3. SIG Sauer P290 (4.08")
4. Rohrbaugh R9/R9S (4.1")
5. Glock 26 (4.17")*
6. Boberg XR9S (4.2")*
7. Kahr PM9 & CM9 (4.3")
7. Kahr MK9 (4.3")
7. Kel-Tec P-11 (4.3")
7. Kel-Tec PF9 (4.3")
8. Cobra Patriot 9 (4.4")*
8. STI LS (4.4")*
9. Walther PPS (4.41")*
10. Ruger LC9 (4.5")*
10. Taurus PT709TI (4.5")*
11. Springfield Armory XD Sub-Compact (4.75")*
12. Taurus PT111PTI (5.02")*

Width:
1. STI LS (.765" Across Steel, 1.06" Across Grips)*
2. Diamondback DB9 (0.80")*
3. Kel-Tec PF9 (0.88")
4. Ruger LC9 (0.90")*
5. Rohrbaugh R9/R9S (0.91")
5. Walther PPS (0.91")*
6. Boberg XR9S (0.95")*
7. SCCY CPX-1 (1.0")
7. Cobra Patriot 9 (1.0")*
8. Taurus PT709TI (1.08")*
9. SIG Sauer P290 (1.10")
9. Kahr PM9 & CM9 (1.10")
9. Kahr MK9 (1.10")
9. Kel-Tec P-11 (1.10")
10. Glock 26 (1.18")*
11. Kimber Solo (1.2")
12. Taurus PT111PTI (1.25")*
12. Springfield Armory XD Sub-Compact (1.25")*

Weight empty:
(Empty Weights include an empty magazine, if unconfirmed *)
1. Diamondback DB9 (11.0 oz.)**
2. Kel-Tec PF9 (14.7 oz.)
3. Rohrbaugh R9/R9S (15.1 oz.)
4. Kel-Tec P-11 (15.6 oz.)
5. Kahr PM9 & CM9 (15.9 oz.)
6. Taurus PT111PTI (16 oz.)**
7. SCCY CPX-1 (17 oz.)
7. Taurus PT709TI (17 oz.)**
8. Ruger LC9 (17.10 oz.)**
9. Kimber Solo (17.2 oz.)
10. Boberg XR9S (17.5 oz.)**
11. Cobra Patriot 9 (18 oz.)**
12. Glock 26 (19.75 oz.)**
13. Walther PPS (21.28 oz.)**
14. SIG Sauer P290 (21.7 oz.)
15. Kahr MK9 (24.0 oz.)
16. Springfield Armory XD Sub-Compact (26 oz.)**
17. STI LS (28.0. oz.)**

* = Isn't in the mousegun chart. Dimensions and weight from manufacturer. Which means that if it isn't in the chart and weight with/without magazine is unconfirmed two * should appear behind the (?.?"/oz.).

As i don't know the quality or the reliability of the SCCY CPX-1, id believe it is the best generally when considering its price($340) and capacity(10+1 rounds). Its only 0.1" longer then the P-11(same capacity as the SCCY CPX-1) and the higher weight reduces felt recoil and makes follow up shots easier.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The SCCY would be my absolute last choice on that list by no small margin.

If price is your main concern, both the Kel-Tec PF9 and P-11 (which the SCCY copied) can be had under $300 in most places. They're well made and backed with an unconditional lifetime warranty that the company truly stands behind.

 

[Armored farmer]

I don't own a centerfire auto and I have no business posting here except to say that when my buddy and I got our cc permits, he chose a KT P-11 as his carry gun. It was cheap to buy and shoots great....crappy trigger and all. We have put box after box full of all sorts of ammo through it without a hitch.

 

[Mad Jack McMad]

Well, for me the price is the least concern when buying a weapon. I merely stated that the SCCY is a cheap, small gun with 10+1 rounds in it. But in my opinion it is still too big. The Kel-Tec PF9 is very good when it comes to width, weight and price, but has a very bad(of the firearms i listed) length and height. It is simply too long and too high according to me.

 

[snooperman]

I agree with mark1Vshooter, stay away from SCCY..

the reliability is not too good. I have the Keltec PF9 and for $300 it is hard to beat. It shoots everything I put in it and fits good in large pockets. And, a life time warranty. It ain't pretty but it gets the job done.

 

[KennyFSU]

Pf9. Winning!

 

[snooperman]

If price is no concern and you want the "smallest" ,,,then

the Rohrbaugh may be YOUR gun. It is a beautiful gun . I would like a smaller gun than the Keltec but changing springs in the Rohrbaugh every 200 rounds turned me off, even though I can afford it.

 

[Hunter2678]

FYI, your dimensions on the PM9/MK9 are a little off (bigger)

The width on the PM9 is .90 inches

The height is 4 inches.

Overall length is 4.52 on the PM9 & 4.3 on the MK9

http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-PM9.asp

http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-MK9.asp

 

[wow6599]

The height and length you have listed for the PM9/CM9 is wrong......it's 4.0" H and 5.42" L
Having owned both the P-11 and PM9, I can say with 100% certainty that the Kel-Tec feels a lot bigger than the Kahr.
Maybe it's 4.3" with the extended mag?

http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-PM9.asp

 

[wow6599]

Sorry for a post that mirrors yours Hunter, I was getting the facts from Kahr's site and didn't know you had posted already.
The width is a little tricky with the PM9 though........the slide is .90 W, but the gun is actually 1.10" W.

 

[Hunter2678]

NP wow..devil is in the details...

 

[Mad Jack McMad]

snooperman, that was one of the things that turned me off also. The second one was a rumor that said it takes like 15 months or so to get a brand new Rohrbaugh R9/R9S.

 

[snooperman]

Mad Jack, the BOBERG, 9mm is to go in production in July 2011.

It is about the size of the Rohrbaugh but with a bigger grip. A lot of shooters are anxiously waiting for it. I would prefer to hold judgement until it has a proven record in the hands of shooters.

 

[Remo223]

width is the most important measurement, followed by weight, imo.

btw, you should add an STI LS to your list.

 

[Big_John1961]

snooperman, that was one of the things that turned me off also. The second one was a rumor that said it takes like 15 months or so to get a brand new Rohrbaugh R9/R9s

You can get one within three weeks, sometimes less. As for the spring, it's not a range gun, nor is it meant to be. But, it comes with one extra spring, and replacements are inexpensive.

 

[Claude Clay]

im mid way down the list for the Boberg XR9-S. at 5.1L x 4.2H x .95 W and 17oz...if its ever made, id sure like to have one. for many years the K-T p11 has served well and is still in the carry rotation. since its last trip to the factory it now shoots easy 2" groups at 25'.

 

[19-3Ben]

One thing that never fails to impress me, is just how little some of those numbers mean.

I've found that the shape of the gun, the texture of the material, etc... matter just as much as the "on paper" size.

 

[Mad Jack McMad]

List updated, one of the newly included pistols are the STI LS.

 

[gbelleh]

The Kahr is only 1.1" at the slide release lever, a very small area overall. I don't even notice the slide stop while carrying. All the important parts (for concealment) are .90".

 

[psyshack]

I purchased the PF-9. Well two of them.

 

[Safetychain]

Do a search for "Bobo's". He put (and is still maintaining) a great comparison listing: Pics, dimensions, finishes available, weight, a method of comparing the guns to each other, and SMRP's of all mouse guns. I still hunt his chart down once a month to check out new entries to the market.

 

[TennJed]

don't forget that you must hold on to the gun after the trigger is pulled. Recoil does need some consideration.

I have a PF9 (love it). Its recoil is definitely manageable but stout (more than my 2.25" 357 SP101). A 100-200 rounds at a time is all I want to do. Sounds like a lot but if we want this to be the gun we trust our life with, we need to practice, practice, practice.

I think the pf9 is perfect. If it is too big for you to conceal you might want to get a pocket knife. I have no trouble with a IWB holster or big pockets.

If it got any smaller it might be too small for me. If I wanted/needed smaller I would just look at a .380

 

[JR956678]

Mad Jack you may want to update your data with regard to the Rohrbaugh:

It doesn't weigh 15.1 oz with an empty magazine. Claimed weight without a magazine is 13.5 oz and I can confirm this (I weighed mine). With an empty magazine the weight is actually 14 oz.

The height of 4.1" is also a little off. Mine is 4.0" from the very top of the rear sight to the very bottom of the magazine release. If mine did not have the additional height of the rear sights (it's available either way) it would be 3.96" (including the heel magazine release).

The width is about right, though on a Rohrbaugh the widest part of the firearm is through the grips - the slide itself is narrower.

 

[ak-kev]

Here is a very cool chart comparing some of these models. The Rohrbaugh seems to be the smallest in all categories, then the Kahr PM9 beats the Solo in 3 out of 4 categories, and so on down the list. Very interesting.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum.../118934-comparison-charts-kimber-solo-vs.html

 

[Remo223]

Looks like Diamondback wins.