What do you guy's think is the least amount of powder that you could use in a .50 cal inline and have it still be effective for whitetails? I'm hoping to take my younger brother who's 9 yo out for youth gun season this year but he's not up to the size and recoil of a shotgun. My normal load is 110 grains of pyrodex which is not bad for recoil but I imagine it's different when you only weigh 60 lbs. I'd figure to keep him limited to close in shots, basically bow range, 30, maybe up to 50 yards or so depending on how he does when we target shoot. For those not aware, OH does not allow use of rifles so it's shotgun or muzzleloader only.
Smallest powder charge that will still be affective
- Thread starter bearcreek
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plateshooter
Member
I shoot 50 gr of T7 3f with a patched round ball in my 50 cal. Very accurate to the 100 yd range where I shoot. 50 yards it makes ragged holes. I would feel comfortable using it for deer at archery ranges. If you are shooting a bullet, I can't help you on the charge.
Norton Commando
Member
plateshooter - what are "ragged holes" at fifty yards indicative of?
Thanks,
Jason
Thanks,
Jason
Pancho
Member
I'm operating from memory here so bare with me. About 20 years ago the NMLRA gave with a membership renewal a small book written by one of the founders of the organization. The book was a primer on muzzleloading. The author stated that determining a minimum hunting load was dictated by the amount of penetration at the desired range. He suggested that if a projectile could penetrate a 3/4" pine board it would be a humane load.
I can see some problems with this method so I'm just passing it along. If I can find the book in all of my literature I'll be more explicit.
I can see some problems with this method so I'm just passing it along. If I can find the book in all of my literature I'll be more explicit.
Not sure I'd really agree with that. My $50 Wal Mart pellet gun will go through 3/8-1/2 of pine. Now, if we were talking white oak, honey locust or elm maybe that'd be better. Maybe i'll try my normal load and then some reduced loads and see what the penetration difference is.
P.S. Great sig lines man
plateshooter
Member
Norton Commando, that is where all of the shots go into one hole torn larger by each additional shot. I usually shoot 5 shot groups from a bench to test my loads.
MCgunner
Member
I haven't chronographed it, but I shoot 70 grains 777 3F (because it's what I also use in my revolvers) behind a 385 grain Hornady Great Plains minie bullet. I took one at about 30 yards, DRT, so far, but it groups well at 100 yards from my CVA Wolf. However, the recoil is substantial, as stiff as 90 grains pyrodex or 2F Goex. I need to order some screens for my chronograph and just SEE what it's clockin'.
50 grains of 3f black powder give you about 715 ft lbs of muzzle energy and 330 ft lbs at 100 yards, 70 grains of 3f gives you around 931 ft lbs muzzle and 371 ft lbs at 100 yards.
As you can see by the time you get out to 100 yards there is only 41 foot pounds difference. Big difference in recoil though.
I got the data from the Lyman book for the patched round ball.
As you can see by the time you get out to 100 yards there is only 41 foot pounds difference. Big difference in recoil though.
I got the data from the Lyman book for the patched round ball.
Depends on which species of pine it is. Clear white pine soft and easy to penetrate. If it's Loblolly or some other hard, yellow pine with a twisting, interlocking grain then we have a whole different animal.
If a 50 dollar air gun would penetrate locust, I'd be impressed. That stuff is like shooting granite. (slight embellishment)
My 600 dollar .45 caliber precharged pneumatic air rifle puts soft lead round balls through a steel 55 gallon drum, but penetration is limited by the deformation of the ball.
My 400+ dollar .22 caliber Benjamin Marauder precharged pneumatic air rifle puts Crosman Domed pellets through the same drum at 35 yards.
IF it were legal, you could take deer with headshots to the brain stem.
BUT, that's a moot point.
70 grains should do the job.
If a 50 dollar air gun would penetrate locust, I'd be impressed. That stuff is like shooting granite. (slight embellishment)
My 600 dollar .45 caliber precharged pneumatic air rifle puts soft lead round balls through a steel 55 gallon drum, but penetration is limited by the deformation of the ball.
My 400+ dollar .22 caliber Benjamin Marauder precharged pneumatic air rifle puts Crosman Domed pellets through the same drum at 35 yards.
IF it were legal, you could take deer with headshots to the brain stem.
BUT, that's a moot point.
70 grains should do the job.
Busyhands94
Member
I don't know that going light will give you a good result. I shoot 80 grains with a round ball or with a Minnie ball all the time, and not once do you see me flinch because of recoil. I could probably put a deer down humanely with 50 grains, but then again that's the bare minimum. I read somewhere that 80 grains of powder with a patched round ball produces a mere 8 foot pounds of recoil, that's about close to a .410 shotgun. It isn't punchy with the recoil either, it's a push on the shoulder as opposed to a kick. If I were to go deer hunting I would go with a patched round ball made of pure lead and an 80 grain charge. You get high velocities, and the lead ball will flatten out like a pancake. People will always say stupid things like "A round ball is primitive, it can't be accurate. You need a .44 jacketed bullet with a sabot to get a clean kill" when that is not true. My .50 is VERY accurate with even a patched round ball, it throws conicals and balls just as well. Cmon now! I'm a skinny guy, but I can shoot 100 rounds from a 12 or 20 gauge without a sore or bruised shoulder.
My mom can shoot 80 grains without any problems, and she's smaller than I am! haha! Of course make sure you test your rifle with the load you intend to hunt with, shoot paper with it and see what load gets that best groups.
best of luck to ya!
~Levi
My mom can shoot 80 grains without any problems, and she's smaller than I am! haha! Of course make sure you test your rifle with the load you intend to hunt with, shoot paper with it and see what load gets that best groups.
best of luck to ya!
~Levi
T Bran
Member
My regular load in my .50 hawken is 80 grains of Pyrodex with a dry patched round ball the recoil is less than my .410. For years my load was 70 grains with a lubed patched round ball actually this is a more accurate load in that gun. Ive never had a penetration issue with the 70 grain load i've used it to kill both deer and hogs out to 75yds. I only went to 80 grains because some of my shots are now out to 120yds or so and I wanted a bit of insurance on the longer shots. Try the 70gr and a RB in your gun if it'll shoot it well it is good medicine out to 70 yards. The RB only weighs 180gr or so hense the reduced recoil I dont think 245gr will be as soft shooting but it wont be bad IMO.
Good on you for getting a future hunter into the sport.
Troy
Good on you for getting a future hunter into the sport.
Troy
Busyhands94
Member
I do thing 3F might be a better choice than 2F powder if you are going to go light. I have shot 3F with good results in my .50 caliber.
I realized today that we have a second problem. The stock is way too long for him. He can't get close enough to the scope to sight properly. Might have to just have him come with me and not shoot this year. Anybody know if there's such a thing as a replacement youth size stock for a CVA Wolf?
Loyalist Dave
Member
A few things. I shoot 70 grains of 3Fg in my .54 longrifle as 60 grains of powder is the minimum for deer in Maryland. You might want to be sure that Ohio doesn't have a similar minimum load.
Next, have you tried a patched round ball out of that CVA? Before folks chime in with comments about twist rates and the need to use conicals or sabots, the CVA Wolf is a 1:28 twist with a 24" barrel, while the Pedersoli Jaeger that I shot with patched round ball last Friday is 1:24 twist with a 28" barrel. Moderate recoil, and very accurate. So it is possible that you could reduce the recoil by simply reducing the powder to 70 grains or so, AND switching to a patched round ball, and still be accurate. You have to give it a try.
As for the stock..., you may need to switch to scope rings that allow you to move the scope backwards a bit. I had to use these on a break action, single shot rifle of mine, and perhaps they will work for you.
Millet Extension Rings
One safety tip..., be sure to move it forward and resight the rifle before you go back to shooting it, once the youngster has gotten a deer.
LD
Next, have you tried a patched round ball out of that CVA? Before folks chime in with comments about twist rates and the need to use conicals or sabots, the CVA Wolf is a 1:28 twist with a 24" barrel, while the Pedersoli Jaeger that I shot with patched round ball last Friday is 1:24 twist with a 28" barrel. Moderate recoil, and very accurate. So it is possible that you could reduce the recoil by simply reducing the powder to 70 grains or so, AND switching to a patched round ball, and still be accurate. You have to give it a try.
As for the stock..., you may need to switch to scope rings that allow you to move the scope backwards a bit. I had to use these on a break action, single shot rifle of mine, and perhaps they will work for you.
Millet Extension Rings
One safety tip..., be sure to move it forward and resight the rifle before you go back to shooting it, once the youngster has gotten a deer.
LD
MCgunner
Member
PRB has a TERRIBLE ballistic coefficient. I mean, not that a heavy Minie ball is real good, but a lot better than PRB. I shoot the 385 grain Hornady, or one of my 360 grain cast conicals, in my CVA. I prefer full caliber, don't mess with the sabots. Sure, it kicks. If I didn't tolerate recoil, I'd probably just stick with my grandpa's old .257 Roberts with which I killed my very first deer at age 11.
Deer rifles don't really get a lot better, I just like messing with front stuffers. I don't know why, but I've gotten infected by this front stuffer thing. And, we don't have a BP only season in my county, I just like the big thumper aspect of the thing.Busyhands94
Member
I like being able to customize my load, and how involved I can get in the sport. Building my rifle, casting my own bullets, rolling my own paper cartridges, I get to forge and make all the accessories I want like turn screws and touch hole picks and cool gadgets. The guns are very affordable, absolutely beautiful a lot of the time, generally good quality, and probably my favorite part is that the government doesn't even know I own guns! In California you have tons of stupid gun laws, but I love that the gun grabbers don't know that I can get a gun shipped to my door for $100 or less no questions asked. I see no harm in that, it's not like many crimes are committed with black powder guns.
anyway, I'll stop ranting. I just love blackpowder, it's my favorite hobby. hehe!
Levi
anyway, I'll stop ranting. I just love blackpowder, it's my favorite hobby. hehe!
Levi
Mcgunner....I understand about the ballistics of the PRB, I was just pointing out to the fellow who wants a light load for his 9 year old brother that dropping downs 20 grains will still give a decent amount of energy with very little recoil. Even dropped down to 50 grains it pretty much duplicates the old 38/55 black powder load for muzzle energy and that was considered an OK deer cartridge.
I use 85 grains of 2f in my .54 with a patched round ball. I have tried 425 grain conicals and R.E.A.L. conicals but my groups were twice as big as the PRB. I would rather use the conical but I can't get the accuracy I want.
I use 85 grains of 2f in my .54 with a patched round ball. I have tried 425 grain conicals and R.E.A.L. conicals but my groups were twice as big as the PRB. I would rather use the conical but I can't get the accuracy I want.
Busyhands94
Member
Alsack, Shot placement is much more important for hunting than having the heavier bullet option. if you shoot a moose in the heart with a round ball it will die, probably a very quick and painless death. If you shoot a moose with a R.E.A.L. bullet and miss the heart or other vital area, then you risk having the animal run off wounded. I hate seeing an animal suffer when I hunt, to me it's disappointing. I think you might be better off sticking with a patched ball. If it's accurate and will kill something then by all means, use it. don't fix what isn't broken!
Indy4570
Member
check ebay for a stock and cut it down, make a slip on leather recoil pad and your done.
MCgunner
Member
You know, i haven't even tried a low power PBR in my 1:24 Hawken Hunter Carbine. That gives me another range trip project to play with in the future. Thanks.
Indy4570
Member
1:24 is not a very good twist for a round ball, the optimum twist for a round ball is 1:66. 1:48 will work OK, but try it, I am interested in what your results are.
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