GarySTL
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60 minutes has a segment on smart gun technology scheduled for tonight, 6/5.
If anyone's interested.
If anyone's interested.
Smart gun technology
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GarySTL
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Looks like it was preempted by Ali.
Good Ol' Boy
Member
No such thing.
I carry a hammer at work all day. Never seen a smart OR stupid hammer, only users.
Same logic applies.
I carry a hammer at work all day. Never seen a smart OR stupid hammer, only users.
Same logic applies.
What?
Well, no, I don't think anybody has attempted to make a hammer that only certain people, probably wearing a particular matched piece of jewelry, can use.
It would surprise me if an actual nationwide law was passed to have all guns incorporate "smart gun" technology. More likely "smart gun" technology will be hoisted on the private sector via bureaucratic and/or judicial subversion.
Obamacare is the perfect vehicle to accomplish this type of scheme. Virtually anything can, at least marginally, be tied into health care, which by law, you now have to purchase. So you basically spend money to limit your own rights such as higher premiums for owning "dumb guns," a certain number/type of guns, etc.
Obamacare is the perfect vehicle to accomplish this type of scheme. Virtually anything can, at least marginally, be tied into health care, which by law, you now have to purchase. So you basically spend money to limit your own rights such as higher premiums for owning "dumb guns," a certain number/type of guns, etc.
IIRC.New Jersey passed a law that after a certain date only "smart guns" could be sold in that state. I don't recall if there was any provision for used guns of if they would just be banned from sale. There were several designs but none could be guaranteed to work for the "proper" owner and not for anyone else; that, combined with the idea that proposed guns should be used first by police. While police supported the idea of civilian guns that might not work, there were no cops willing to put their own guns in the same category. Last I heard, the plan was on hold.
A more recent proposal was that guns be fitted with a chip that could access the internet; if the gun owner or police officer was confronted by a criminal, or just wanted to do some shooting on the range, he would call police HQ, so they could determine if firing the gun was necessary and appropriate and if so, could signal the chip to "release" the lock so the gun could be fired. While I understand a couple of political police chiefs thought it was a good idea, it seems real cops didn't much like it.
Jim
A more recent proposal was that guns be fitted with a chip that could access the internet; if the gun owner or police officer was confronted by a criminal, or just wanted to do some shooting on the range, he would call police HQ, so they could determine if firing the gun was necessary and appropriate and if so, could signal the chip to "release" the lock so the gun could be fired. While I understand a couple of political police chiefs thought it was a good idea, it seems real cops didn't much like it.
Jim
wally
Member
This is classic "crony capitalism" at work. Invent a solution "looking for a problem" that nobody wants to buy and get the .gov to require it be used!
mikemyers
Member
It seems to me that they should create a different name, that actually describes the function, that only a "registered" person could fire it. "Smart" doesn't really apply. Maybe "fingerprint locked" or something more descriptive of how it works.
I can imagine a lot of uses for it, including having it in a home environment with kids. It should still be locked up safely, but if (when?) someone found it somehow, it couldn't hurt anyone.
About inventing a solution looking for a problem - that would relate to how Steve Jobs adapted existing technology to manufacture a mobile phone that many people liked.
I can imagine a lot of uses for it, including having it in a home environment with kids. It should still be locked up safely, but if (when?) someone found it somehow, it couldn't hurt anyone.
About inventing a solution looking for a problem - that would relate to how Steve Jobs adapted existing technology to manufacture a mobile phone that many people liked.
Jim Watson
Member
If smart guns are so fine, let's get them where they are needed... like the Secret Service Presidential Detail.
mikemyers
Member
I predict that in five to ten years, every police officer will have a gun that only he can fire.
Jim Watson
Member
Disagree.
In five to ten years, a civilian will only be able to buy a gun that the government can turn off.
The cops will be exempt from complicated and failure prone machinery in their weapons.
In five to ten years, a civilian will only be able to buy a gun that the government can turn off.
The cops will be exempt from complicated and failure prone machinery in their weapons.
How much you want to bet?
How many separate law enforcement agencies are there in Govt., State and local jurisdictions, hundreds, thousands?
Each has its own policies, jurisdictions and budgets. Many, even the bigger ones don't deploy tasers or bodycams due to budgets and politics. Some officers get to carry their own firearms.
It's never that easy.
mikemyers
Member
'cwl', I agree. Let me re-word my post:
I predict that in five to ten years, police officers will be able to carry a gun that only they can fire.
I predict that in five to ten years, police officers will be able to carry a gun that only they can fire.
This will never happen in any widespread way. Sure, someone will invent a "smart gun" but no professional agency will use them and no one who needs a gun for self defense will buy one. This is pie in the sky thinking that is not grounded in reality.
Let me explain why: There are really only a few technologies that could be used. Radio waves of some sort, fingerprints or magnets.
I'll start with fingerprints since that is the easiest. People wear gloves. A lot of us live in climates where gloves are needed many months out of the year. Cops tend to wear gloves when they know they are going hands on with a suspect. Then let's say someone found a way to make gloves work; you still have the fact that at most, this is a basic system that could be removed. It can also fail with a bad battery, bad solder joint, bad component. I know of no professional or responsible gun owner who would accept another failure point.
Next up is radio waves. This could be RFID or BlueTooth. Neither is an option that would be 100% reliable. Both are subject to interference and jamming. If cops had guns that relied on radio waves, criminals would be buying signal jammers by the truckload. Yes they already exist and yes they are dirt cheap. Who cares if they are illegal? These are criminals.
Magnets could work in theory, but I have no idea how you would make it 100% reliable. I also don't know how specific you can "tune" them so that only one person can use them. This would also mean the user would have to wear a magnet at all times. I don't know how you could possibly make this work in the real world.
I could turn my Glock 19 into a smart gun right now. I have all the equipment and parts that I would need. I would never dream of doing it because there is no way it would be anywhere close to reliable. Having a discussion about smart guns right now is like having a discussion about photon torpedos. Yes, its a cool idea. Yes, we could probably make something that kinda worked. No, it is not viable in the real world.
Let me explain why: There are really only a few technologies that could be used. Radio waves of some sort, fingerprints or magnets.
I'll start with fingerprints since that is the easiest. People wear gloves. A lot of us live in climates where gloves are needed many months out of the year. Cops tend to wear gloves when they know they are going hands on with a suspect. Then let's say someone found a way to make gloves work; you still have the fact that at most, this is a basic system that could be removed. It can also fail with a bad battery, bad solder joint, bad component. I know of no professional or responsible gun owner who would accept another failure point.
Next up is radio waves. This could be RFID or BlueTooth. Neither is an option that would be 100% reliable. Both are subject to interference and jamming. If cops had guns that relied on radio waves, criminals would be buying signal jammers by the truckload. Yes they already exist and yes they are dirt cheap. Who cares if they are illegal? These are criminals.
Magnets could work in theory, but I have no idea how you would make it 100% reliable. I also don't know how specific you can "tune" them so that only one person can use them. This would also mean the user would have to wear a magnet at all times. I don't know how you could possibly make this work in the real world.
I could turn my Glock 19 into a smart gun right now. I have all the equipment and parts that I would need. I would never dream of doing it because there is no way it would be anywhere close to reliable. Having a discussion about smart guns right now is like having a discussion about photon torpedos. Yes, its a cool idea. Yes, we could probably make something that kinda worked. No, it is not viable in the real world.
It's bad enough when the police can shut down your car's computer and scan your credit/debit cards and seize all your money just because you "might be" a drug dealer even though you are not carrying drugs ("if you want your money back get a lawyer and sue us"). And the manufacturer who sells them this equipment gets a "cut" of all funds seized or fines enacted (just like the traffic camera makers) And now they want to be able to switch our firearms "off" Or as Hal Moore said in "We were Soldiers" "It's gettin' pretty sporty out here......"
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Wow, so much wrong in this post.
Name one case where police stopped a perp's car through onboard computer. Only known car hacks have been done in controlled demonstrations, leading car manufacturers to quickly work to close these backdoors.
Only way to "scan" credit cards is to get warrant and request transactional records directly from the card providers.
Civil asset forfietures has been a problem, mostly by corrupt Agencies using this to suppliment revenues, but recent court rulings are turning against police forces who practice this.
Manufacturers get a cut... really? How? Please name these companies.
If you didn't know, traffic light cameras are privately operated AND courts are ruling that you don't have to pay these fines, - a matter of being able to face your accuser, which cameras don't count.
Finally, police turning off your guns? How do they know what anyone may have in hand at the moment? Will it be a smart gun, or one of the 400 million already in existence? Will a LEO know the identity of the BG? And since BGs often use stolen guns, how will LEOs know the s/n of the guns? -As if local LEOs will have instant access to gun ownership records.
mikemyers
Member
I was thinking that if a police person got into a physical fight with a criminal, even if the criminal managed to overpower the copy, and take his gun, he couldn't shoot with it.
danez71
Member
I get what youre saying but I think youre overstating it.
1st, nothing is 100% reliable. So using that figure as a bench mark is a bit of a red herring.
Car companies have made 100's of thousands (if not over millions in that last 10 years) of car using RFID in the key fob so you don't even have to take it out of your pocket. Just get near the car and the door unlocks and allows you to push button the ignition.
I personally haven't heard of any failures of that system but I'm sure there has been.
Batteries?, change them like you do the smoke detectors batteries. IOW, long before you need to.
Most electronic companies are pushing Six Sigma failure rates (99.9997%, that's 3.4 per million) or better.
No gun company is producing any gun any where near that level of reliability.
Whether or not it can be adapted to guns is another question.
danez71
Member
Don't get me wrong though... I agree with you in general.
IF it can be adapted to gun, it would need some type of solenoid to lock the movement of the trigger or slide or whatever.( or possibly a little servo motor). Electronic solenoids are incredibly reliable... every car with electric locks has them
However, it would be ridiculously easy to get around for anyone capable of removing the grip panels (most likely place for it to be put).
For the Govt to think that a smart gun would prevent a criminal from shooting a stolen smart gun would be like thinking that electric door locks with rolling codes for the keyless remote is preventing cars from being stolen and driven away.
Bottom line is that it could prevent a small child from accidently shooting it but that's about it.
IF it can be adapted to gun, it would need some type of solenoid to lock the movement of the trigger or slide or whatever.( or possibly a little servo motor). Electronic solenoids are incredibly reliable... every car with electric locks has them
However, it would be ridiculously easy to get around for anyone capable of removing the grip panels (most likely place for it to be put).
For the Govt to think that a smart gun would prevent a criminal from shooting a stolen smart gun would be like thinking that electric door locks with rolling codes for the keyless remote is preventing cars from being stolen and driven away.
Bottom line is that it could prevent a small child from accidently shooting it but that's about it.
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