Smoothbore .54?

[MacAR]

Howdy fellers. I currently have an Investarms Hawken carbine in 50 caliber. It's a fine shooting gun, no doubt, but a little heavy for small game. There is a company that sells drop-in fit, 54 caliber smoothbore barrels for said carbine and relatively cheap. My question is, how well would a load of shot do out of that small a barrel? Sources say that .54 caliber and 28 gauge are similar, but before I pull the trigger I'd like to hear from some of you who have experience shooting the smaller caliber smoothbores. And, any suggestions for loads, shot size, and wads. If I buy it, I was thinking starting with about 60grs powder and an equal amount of #6 shot and working up from there. Thoughts?

Mac

 

[ThomasT]

I have never heard of Interarms BP rifles before. Can you post a picture?

You're not talking about Investarms are you?

 

[MacAR]

You're not talking about Investarms are you?

Yes, that's exactly what I meant! My coffee hadn't kicked in yet, I guess. I've edited my post to correct the name, as well. Thanks for pointing that out, Thomas.

Mac

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

My standard load in my 54 hawken is 60 grains fffg with patched roundball and she's very accurate at 50 yards. At 100 yards or more i up the charge to 80 grains ffg

 

[ThomasT]

IIRC Investarms used to make a smooth bore Hawken rifle but they don't show it on their website anymore. If you could find a spare barrel (Ebay) especially one that is rusted in the bore you could ream it out. That shouldn't be hard to do. The hard part would be getting and extension to hold the reamer. But any machine shop could drill a hole in a rod so you could add a couple of set screws to hold the reamer.

I have given this a lot of thought for a long time and had hoped to find a rusted up BP rifle in a pawn shop I could do this to but I never found a gun that wouldn't clean up. A 50 or 54 made into a smooth bore should be as good as a 410 or maybe a little better. I regret not buying one of the inexpensive CVA 12ga guns Cabelas used to sell many years ago. I look on GB and Auction Arms for them but I have never seen a single one of them for sale. Either they didn't sell many or those that bought them are hanging on to them.

 

[ThomasT]

I forgot about them but check on GB and see if you can find one of the TC 56 caliber smooth bores. TOW sells the round balls for those so you can have a ball load or shoot shot from it. They are made on the Renegade platform. I see those pretty regular on there for sale.

Sam Fadala did a whole chapter on them in his BP handbook and shot some decent 100 yard groups with his.

 

[arcticap]

A .54 can make a very effective smoothbore.
However, without a choke to provide some bore constriction there will be some limitations with the effective patterning and distance.
Also, a much heavier load of both powder and shot must be used if you want to try to hunt with it beyond close range.
And using conventional plastic shotshell wads can help improve the pattern even more.

I have a .28 gauge Spanish shotgun that has a fixed modified choke, and I've loaded the gun with about 90 grains of 3F powder and about 100 grains of shot without a problem.
100 grains equals about 1 1/2 ozs. of shot, which is about the load for a conventional 12 gauge.
That was in order to try to break some clay birds with it.
Even though that's more shot than 28 ga. plastic shotshell wads are designed to hold, using them still helped to create a denser pattern.

Duelist1954 made 2 videos about patterning unchoked 20 gauge smoothbores.
He found that unless he loaded 2 ozs. of shot and 100 grains of 2F powder, that he couldn't reliably break a clay bird at 35 yards.
He upped his powder charge to 100 grains and 2 ozs. of shot using both #5 shot for turkey targets at 30 yards, and #6 shot to break break clay birds at 35 yards.
He also used different types of wads with the same result.
In the 28 gauge, it's not unrealistic to load 100 grains of shot, and anywhere from 80 - 100 grains of powder to try to iucrease the pattern density so that it can reach out to 25 yards.
Hunting at 30 yards may take some luck using #6 shot that's preferred for squirrel and rabbit.

Check out both of Mike's patterning videos.





Here's a reference chart for shooting smoothbores.

POWDER MEASURE SETTINGS TO THROW OUNCES OF SHOT:

 50 grain setting = 3/4 ounce of shot
 60 grain setting = 7/8 ounce of shot
 70 grain setting = 1 ounce of shot
 80 grain setting = 1 1/8 ounce of shot
 90 grain setting = 1 1/4 ounce of shot
 100 grain setting = 1 3/8 ounce of shot
 110 grain setting = 1 1/2 ounce of shot
 120 grain setting = 1 5/8 ounce of shot

Here's some equal volume loads:

oz. shot-----Dr. powder-------Grains
3/4-------------2--------------55
7/8-------------2 1/4----------62
1---------------2 1/2----------68
1 1/8-----------2 3/4----------75
1 1/4-----------3--------------82
1 3/8-----------3 1/4----------89
1 1/2-----------3 1/2----------96
1 5/8-----------3 3/4----------102
1 3/4-----------4--------------109
1 7/8-----------4 1/4----------116
2---------------4 1/2----------123
2 1/8-----------4 3/4----------130
2 1/4-----------5--------------137

1 oz. of lead shot weighs 437.5 grains.
1 1/8 oz. of lead shot weighs 492.1 grains.
1.25 oz. of lead shot weighs 546.8 grains.

1 Dram - 27.3 grains of powder by volume

 

[MacAR]

Thanks for all the info, guys. The barrel I'm looking at is already smooth-bored, and available locally. I'm seriously considering getting it, some wads, and some shot in lieu of finding a 36 or 40 caliber rifle for small game. My thinking is, if I can keep under 30 yards, the .54 with an ounce or so of shot should take care of whatever I want to shoot. Still in the "thinking" stage, so any thoughts are welcome.

Mac

 

[ThomasT]

You might want to try shooting shot from your rifled barrel and see if it will work with shot well enough to hunt with.

 

[Armored farmer]

At my recent BP shoot here at my place, we had a 30 yd spot shoot at standard playing cards. #7.5 shot was provided to keep it fair.
The winner shot a 20ga smoothbore with a special custom jugged turkey barrel. His winning card had over 40 pellet holes in it.
Second place went to a standard cylinder bore .54 smoothbore with 14 pellets
There were cards with 4, 5, 7, 1 pellets.
My 12 ga percussion sxs shooting 1.25oz and 90gr 2f from a full choke put four pellets in my card.
Not especially scientific, but my theory is that the smaller bores start with a longer smaller diameter shot column and tend to remain tighter at 30yds.

 

[Fyrstyk]

I have a .56 smooth bore T/C Renegade that I hunt squirrels with in the early season when the leaves are still on the trees. I load 70 grains of 2f a 1/2" over powder felt wad then 70 Grains (by volume, a square load) of #5 shot with a 1/2" lube saturated over shot wad. At 30 yards I am putting 12-20 pellets in a soda can. This load has taken quite a few squirrels for me over the years.

 

[JeffG]

I have a .54 flint Virginia style smoothbore. I use #6 shot exclusively. My load is 60-80 gr FFFG under an over powder card, Then a beeswax lubed fiber cushion wad. My shot is wrapped in butcher paper, and tied with string, usually and ounce or ounce and a quarter. I tear off the muzzle end of the string before ramming. Over that goes an over shot card. I have found that the number of layers of paper, tighten the pattern. Conversely, newspaper gives me a nice upland pattern. Grouse and squirrels to turkey, it's all good.

 

[ThomasT]

Not especially scientific, but my theory is that the smaller bores start with a longer smaller diameter shot column and tend to remain tighter at 30yds.

Thats why I like my 410 shotguns. That long shot column isn't that great for wing shooting but for sitting game it works just fine. And it doesn't pepper the target with so much shot that the meat is ruined. I think a 410 is a whole lot better gun than the internet people would have you believe.

 

[Thomasss]

Investarms is imported in the U.S. under the Lyman name. The Hawkins type rifle is called Great Plains Rifle with a 1:66 twist or also Great Plains Hunter with a 1:33 twist. I tried shooting shot out of a .50 cal riflled Hunter type barrel and ended up with a comma shape pattern of 18 inches at 25 yards. I decided just to shoot a round ball with a charge of 30 grains and it worked out very well on small game. The ball goes through and through with out expanding! I also tried it with a Great Plain Rifle in .54 cal but could not get the same results with a 30 grain charge. A .54 just won't perform with that small of a charge. Green Mountain Barrel Co. use to advertise barrels for Lyman guns, but have quit doing that for some time. And extra drop-in new Lyman barrel or generic is now about $400 or more.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I'm seriously considering getting it, some wads, and some shot in lieu of finding a 36 or 40 caliber rifle for small game.

Alright, then, technically..., technically a 28 gauge is .550 bore, and the TC Renegade that was bored to .56 is really almost a 26 gauge. [OK enough trivia]

There are a couple stories as to why TC made the Renegade in .56. One is to comply with a state or a couple states' regs for black powder guns being guns and not rifles, and another is that they were selling some in Europe in places where it's just a pain in the arse to get even a ML rifle "approved" by the authorities. I think the latter tail is confusing some of Investarms smoothbores that were patterned after half-stocked plains rifles made for European owners wanting a "hawken" type gun (and as the Investarms barrels are made in Europe they are proofed,while the Renegade barrels would all have needed to undergo proofing ) .

One advantage to a smooth rifle using shot..., if you shoot upwards into a tree after a squirrel on a branch you won't have a .350 or .390 round ball coming back down to land somewhere unknown if you miss the critter, which if the area where you one day hunt is close to an inhabited location, could be bad. AND you can shoot .530 round ball with a patch if you want to go for deer with it, and not need to swap the barrel.

LD

 

[ThomasT]

The Hawkins type rifle is called Great Plains Rifle with a 1:66 twist...

No the Great Plains rifle has a 1/60 twist. And my .50 caliber will give good groups with a Lee improved Minnie that weighs 360grs and of course shoots a round ball very well.

Here’s the Great Plains Rifle specs:

• 32″ barrel with 1 in 60″ twist for patched ball and hunting loads. Barrel is 15/16- inch wide.
• Adjustable double set triggers
• European walnut stock
• Hawken style percussion “snail” with clean out screw
• Separate ramrod entry thimble and nose cap
• Adjustable rear and primitive sights
• Percussion coil spring lock with period-correct lock plate
• Available in .50 and .54 caliber flint or percussion, and come in factory assembled or kit form.
• Weight: 9 pounds
• MSRP ranges from $769.95 to $839.95. Kits are considerably less – shop around and you may find a deal.

 

[paul harm]

The longer the shot column the poorer the pattern because the shot at the bottom of the column gets flattened more when the charge first goes off. There's more set back because of the extra weight. I shoot a lot of modern clay target games with my old SxSs and the best patterns from my 12ga guns are 3/4oz of shot. They're actually too tight at skeet distances [ 22 yards ] unless I go to fiber wads and or get velocities up over 1300fps. As for shot in rifle barrels, forget it. They will just open up too much.
A 54 isn't really all that small, even for a smoothbore. Back in the day many 40 and 45 cal smoothbore rifles were used. They were called rifles because they had sights like a rifle, not because they had rifling. Good luck in your quest to find a smoothbore barrel.

 

[MacAR]

Thanks for all your good info fellers. I'm really thinking I'd like the .54 barrel on my little Hawken. The .50 barrel that's on it now is only 23" long and shoots patched round balls into nice, tight groups at 50 yards. Even though I'd like to have a 10 or 12 gauge double, having a shotgun for small game without actually having to spend a fortune on one interests me quite a bit. If the barrel is still available next week, I think I'll buy it, along with some #6 shot and maybe some wads or tow to use for wadding until some proper .545 wads can be found. Once I get the things together, and figure out what's what, I'll make a new post and let y'all know how it worked.

Mac

 

[GMRevolver]

Howdy fellers. I currently have an Investarms Hawken carbine in 50 caliber. It's a fine shooting gun, no doubt, but a little heavy for small game. There is a company that sells drop-in fit, 54 caliber smoothbore barrels for said carbine and relatively cheap. My question is, how well would a load of shot do out of that small a barrel? Sources say that .54 caliber and 28 gauge are similar, but before I pull the trigger I'd like to hear from some of you who have experience shooting the smaller caliber smoothbores. And, any suggestions for loads, shot size, and wads. If I buy it, I was thinking starting with about 60grs powder and an equal amount of #6 shot and working up from there. Thoughts?

Mac

I have an Investarms .50 too. The closest currently imported equivalent I could find to it is Lyman's current "trade rifle". I too would love an affordable .54 smoothbore drop-in barrel for for a squirrel/bunny buster. Could you please at least PM me a link? It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MacAR]

Could you please at least PM me a link?

The one I'm looking at is at a local shop, no internet service. If I run on to another one, I'll certainly let you know though.

Mac

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I have a .54 flint Virginia style smoothbore. I use #6 shot exclusively. My load is 60-80 gr FFFG under an over powder card, Then a beeswax lubed fiber cushion wad. My shot is wrapped in butcher paper, and tied with string, usually and ounce or ounce and a quarter. I tear off the muzzle end of the string before ramming. Over that goes an over shot card. I have found that the number of layers of paper, tighten the pattern. Conversely, newspaper gives me a nice upland pattern. Grouse and squirrels to turkey, it's all good.

View attachment 984145 View attachment 984146 View attachment 984147 View attachment 984148

Grocery bag-paper bag makes a good paper for making shot cartridges.

 

[JeffG]

View attachment 984517 Grocery bag-paper bag makes a good paper for making shot cartridges.

Excellent! Nice bird!

 

[bc38]

I have a Enfield P53 that some time in the past someone cut down made into a smooth bore. 100 grn of ffg, a bit of pillow ticking, 100 grn by vol. of #4 shot, a bit more of pillow ticking, all packed down nice and snug, a musket cap, works fine for partridge and woodcock. don't eat rabbits or squirrels so no 1st hand report but can imagine that it wouldn't do just fine. Nice little round ball shooter out to 50, 75 yards or so. I say go for it, dont think you will be disappointed.