Snake & Bear Country -- how do you load?
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As a PA resident who also hikes and fishes, I'm in favor of 2 shotshells first, then the rest JHPs.
We're talking PA black bears here, not Alaskan grizzlies. You'll rarely see a bear in the woods, and if you do, its usually their a$$ end running away from you. You'll encounter more snakes for sure. And on the rare occasion you would have a problem with a bear, I gurarantee you 2 rounds of #9 in the face will make it think twice about continuing with the encounter.
We're talking PA black bears here, not Alaskan grizzlies. You'll rarely see a bear in the woods, and if you do, its usually their a$$ end running away from you. You'll encounter more snakes for sure. And on the rare occasion you would have a problem with a bear, I gurarantee you 2 rounds of #9 in the face will make it think twice about continuing with the encounter.
koja48
member
Never been faced with this dilemma, but if I were, since I've never heard of anyone being charged by a snake & see no reason to have to dispatch one, I'd load for bear.
TallPine
Member
In the summertime, I carry a snake load last in my sixgun (under the hammer). Theory being that with a snake I will have time to pull back the hammer a bit and rotate the cylinder.
If I was carrying two snake loads and four solids (instead of 1 and 5), then I would probably carry them first up and last up, with the four solids in between.
Ya'll can hug snakes all you want, but I don't want rattlesnakes hanging out on my land. There's plenty of bullsnakes and hognose snakes to take care of rodents.
If I was carrying two snake loads and four solids (instead of 1 and 5), then I would probably carry them first up and last up, with the four solids in between.
Ya'll can hug snakes all you want, but I don't want rattlesnakes hanging out on my land. There's plenty of bullsnakes and hognose snakes to take care of rodents.
Oh, I agree. I'd happily exterminate them on my land. Around here we don't really have "land" the way you do in Montana, but even such as it is, I'd have no qualms about getting rid of the rattlers.
I spoke merely about my ethics on public hunting lands.
22-rimfire
Member
Load for bear. If it makes you feel better keep a few shot loads in your pocket for snakes. I see little need to shoot most snakes. Walk around them. If they bite you, kill them.
Dealing with snakes outdoors is more off a defensive thing. I usually have a walking stick out in the woods or have one in my truck if I'm out walking in fields or tall grass. The stick is mighty useful for helping to see where you are stepping next and, if necessary, all that is needed for an aggressive snake. The gun is my last choice.
If we are talking Water Moccasins... different story. You need to be weary of them and careful if you are in a boat on waters that support them. Shooting inside a boat can be a problem if you know what I mean.
Dealing with snakes outdoors is more off a defensive thing. I usually have a walking stick out in the woods or have one in my truck if I'm out walking in fields or tall grass. The stick is mighty useful for helping to see where you are stepping next and, if necessary, all that is needed for an aggressive snake. The gun is my last choice.
If we are talking Water Moccasins... different story. You need to be weary of them and careful if you are in a boat on waters that support them. Shooting inside a boat can be a problem if you know what I mean.
Cosmoline
Member
That's been my experience in the Cascades, but different areas have very different snakes. A timber rattlesnake in Oregon is a mellow, laid back reptile. I pushed a huge one off the road once and he just looked annoyed, like a hippie you force out of the house. I don't think you'd want to do that with a sidewinder in the SW
There are some snakes that have a REALLY bad temper and will actually chase you.LOL
Yup.
A Red Diamond doesn't look for trouble, though. I've hiked right in front of a big one's face, and he just laid there. Didn't really care. I did warn the rest of the group I was leading, though. Others have just rattled, slithered away, then rattled some more from the safety of the brush.
Just get one of these:
Snake on the left, bear on the right, and a shotgun over your shoulder in case you get attacked by a flock of hungry pigeons. Stylish, too!
koja48
member
hug snakes all you wan
Never said I'd hug one & do plenty of hunting, but I DO believe in conservation. Hell, 15 years ago, Tall, I'd have driven back home, looked you up, discussed "hugging," and then bought you a beer when we were done . . . now I'd just come back & buy you a beer . . . several if you have access to good fly-fishing. Dispatching them is your prerogative . . . even though I got bit by one in SW Montana when I was a kid, I still wouldn't kill one, less'n it was posing a persistent problem around a home, barn, livestock, etc., and then I'd probably catch it & relocate it. They kill too many rodents, & THOSE carry more subtle & devastating forms of illness and, unfortunately, death. IMHO, their benefit earns them new home range away from folks, but not extermination. To each his own . . .
Never said I'd hug one & do plenty of hunting, but I DO believe in conservation. Hell, 15 years ago, Tall, I'd have driven back home, looked you up, discussed "hugging," and then bought you a beer when we were done . . . now I'd just come back & buy you a beer . . . several if you have access to good fly-fishing. Dispatching them is your prerogative . . . even though I got bit by one in SW Montana when I was a kid, I still wouldn't kill one, less'n it was posing a persistent problem around a home, barn, livestock, etc., and then I'd probably catch it & relocate it. They kill too many rodents, & THOSE carry more subtle & devastating forms of illness and, unfortunately, death. IMHO, their benefit earns them new home range away from folks, but not extermination. To each his own . . .
KevininPa
Member
I agree with Mr. White
It's not like our bears are aggressive. Stay away from the youngin's and keep your food in a tree. Make some noise as you go. Our snakes are pretty lazy too as long as you're not stompin' on 'em. I just walked around them. Did a lot of hiking and camping through out the state. I carry a 686 with 180 gr JHPs that a buddy reloads for me more for piece of mind than actual need. However I was up on the AT somewhere between 14-16 years ago when a multiple murder scene was discovered up there. We couldn't figure out why everyone was eyeing us warily when we were coming down. I'm more concerned with two-legged predators since then, but in the woods carry for something bigger just in case. In town I'm happy with my .380's.
Kevin in Pa
It's not like our bears are aggressive. Stay away from the youngin's and keep your food in a tree. Make some noise as you go. Our snakes are pretty lazy too as long as you're not stompin' on 'em. I just walked around them. Did a lot of hiking and camping through out the state. I carry a 686 with 180 gr JHPs that a buddy reloads for me more for piece of mind than actual need. However I was up on the AT somewhere between 14-16 years ago when a multiple murder scene was discovered up there. We couldn't figure out why everyone was eyeing us warily when we were coming down. I'm more concerned with two-legged predators since then, but in the woods carry for something bigger just in case. In town I'm happy with my .380's.
Kevin in Pa
Agree with Eldon519 about cottonmouths. Rattlers are *****cats next to them. I go out of my way to kill cottonmouths. Had a friend who was fishing with his 6 year old in a brushy creek near Houston and a cottonmouth made a strike at the kid and broke his jaw. The fangs didn't hit the boys jaw, just part of the snakes head. They are baaaad!!
Stainz
Member
If you are in a boat, and a cottonmouth is headed your way, you are an obstacle he must go over. Move! They don't 'chase' you, yet they have only one defense, so beware of them. Copperheads aren't aggressive - unless you step on them. Either will get you without coiling, if you step on them. An eastern rattler can often be avoided by their smell - it's like death warmed over. If they coil and 'rattle' they are about to strike - move. They are short and broad, too - not the most athletic snake. Coral snakes are found in rocky hillsides - their mouths don't open wide enough to get much over the skin between your fingers. Good thing, as their bite is generally fatal.
The most dangerous predator in the woods is man - carry enough gun for him and use common sense to avoid black bears & cats. A walking stick - and a good knife - help with snakes. The most common death-dealer in nature near these parts seems to be an allergic reaction to a bee/yellow jacket/wasp/hornet sting. You never know when you've had enough stings - and the next one will send you into shock. Carry a bee sting kit when camping - even Benadryl can save your life in a pinch.
It has been years since I took my sons, now 33 & 27, hiking & camping in the Smokies. I obeyed the Federal Park signs back then - and carried a Swiss Army knife and a camp hatchet. Nowadays I would cheat - my 296 Airweight .44 Special 5-shot loaded with a 240gr LSWC first followed by four 200gr GDJHP's would be in a pocket holster. My only view of a black bear while camping was from the rear one morning near our 'camp' - with my sons asleep in the tent. I was aggravated because I had left my camera bag in the tent. Times change!
Stainz
PS I live in a subdivision outside Birmingham... I've caught and relocated several copperheads in my yard... okay, one was crudely dissected by a hoe.
The most dangerous predator in the woods is man - carry enough gun for him and use common sense to avoid black bears & cats. A walking stick - and a good knife - help with snakes. The most common death-dealer in nature near these parts seems to be an allergic reaction to a bee/yellow jacket/wasp/hornet sting. You never know when you've had enough stings - and the next one will send you into shock. Carry a bee sting kit when camping - even Benadryl can save your life in a pinch.
It has been years since I took my sons, now 33 & 27, hiking & camping in the Smokies. I obeyed the Federal Park signs back then - and carried a Swiss Army knife and a camp hatchet. Nowadays I would cheat - my 296 Airweight .44 Special 5-shot loaded with a 240gr LSWC first followed by four 200gr GDJHP's would be in a pocket holster. My only view of a black bear while camping was from the rear one morning near our 'camp' - with my sons asleep in the tent. I was aggravated because I had left my camera bag in the tent. Times change!
Stainz
PS I live in a subdivision outside Birmingham... I've caught and relocated several copperheads in my yard... okay, one was crudely dissected by a hoe.
RustyHammer
Member
Walking stick for snake ... .44 Mag w/ JHP for, if necessary, for peace of mind.
TallPine
Member
Admittedly the two legged snakes are by far the more dangerous.
If it makes anybody feel better, I've only killed one rattlesnake in the four years we lived on this place - it was in our driveway. I let another big one live on about a mile from our house - I was out walking with my dog and was concerned that the shot would scare her.
Most of the rattlesnakes that I see are already squished out on the county road.
We used to see the big "bull" snakes all the time, but not so much anymore. They have a big horseshoe shaped row of teeth, but they usually squeeze their victims to death. Also see some "hognose" snakes that look a lot like rattlers, but don't have rattles.
Don't seem to be many bears around here, but there's at least one cougar hanging around lately. Big kitty "sign" right outside our front door.
Several neighbors have seen him/her at night.
Not much fly fishing near here, but you could get some stinkbait and try for catfish
If it makes anybody feel better, I've only killed one rattlesnake in the four years we lived on this place - it was in our driveway. I let another big one live on about a mile from our house - I was out walking with my dog and was concerned that the shot would scare her.
Most of the rattlesnakes that I see are already squished out on the county road.
We used to see the big "bull" snakes all the time, but not so much anymore. They have a big horseshoe shaped row of teeth, but they usually squeeze their victims to death. Also see some "hognose" snakes that look a lot like rattlers, but don't have rattles.
Don't seem to be many bears around here, but there's at least one cougar hanging around lately. Big kitty "sign" right outside our front door.
Several neighbors have seen him/her at night.Not much fly fishing near here, but you could get some stinkbait and try for catfish
koja48
member
Big kitty
Now a big kitty in the neighborhood would make me a bit nervous . . . sneaky critters.
Now a big kitty in the neighborhood would make me a bit nervous . . . sneaky critters.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Right. If you are in a confrontation with a snake, then chances are your situational awareness sucks and you aren't paying attention to what you are doing.
This is just an unreasonable fear (aka paranoia) of snakes and is just that, unreasonable. The notion of killing all snakes that you find on your property or in your camp is just plain ignorant.
lesjones
Member
DoubleNaughtSpy: animals tend to blend into their environments. It's easy to accidentally walk up on a snake. I've done it many times while hiking, or in my former life as a field biologist. I guess all of those animals that have been eaten by snakes since time began didn't have good situational awareness.
I've run up on copperheads, eastern diamondbacks, western diamondbacks, cottonmouths, and black bear, but the most scared I've ever been was by a bird. I was coming back from collecting data at a site in the Smokies, walking along level trail. All of the sudden it was like an alarm was going off and something was chasing me. I ran like hell down the trail for about a hundred feet.
When I collected myself and looked back there was a little brown and white grouse looking at me. Those things sure make a racket.
I've run up on copperheads, eastern diamondbacks, western diamondbacks, cottonmouths, and black bear, but the most scared I've ever been was by a bird. I was coming back from collecting data at a site in the Smokies, walking along level trail. All of the sudden it was like an alarm was going off and something was chasing me. I ran like hell down the trail for about a hundred feet.
When I collected myself and looked back there was a little brown and white grouse looking at me. Those things sure make a racket.
AuProspector
Member
The obivious:
All bear loads will kill a snake.
All bear loads will kill a snake.
Clipper
Member
I don't understand the need to kill snakes. The only real way to get bit is to provoke one somehow, and if you're dumb enough to get bit, you probably deserved it in some way, either by direct provocation, doing some macho showing off getting too close, or having H.I.A. Either way, the snake is only gonna do what nature intended. Much the same with bears, but unlike a snake, can take aggresive action from an otherwise safe distance, so yeah, fill 'er up with bear medicine and just leave the snakes alone...
the lone gunman
Member
Just carry a walking stick and scoot him out of your way. Did you know that they are protected here in Pa?
I'm pleased so many of you trust and believe in the benevolence of snakes. It's just not a guarantee with cottonmouths though. They will come after you and they will chase you without intentional provocation. Most will try to avoid or warn you, but some will attack even if you just startle them.
eldon519, I'm in 100% agreement with you. Some of these guys just don't go into the woods often enough. Eventually you will find yourself straddling a snake and if you so much as take a step, the snake will begin striking. Luckily I had my lace-up Red Wings on when it happened to me and the fangs didn't penetrate.
A human is so large that any snake will consider it a threat when nearby. Snakes have attitudes much like mammals, some choose to flee, some choose to fight.
There are too many children and pets out and about on my property to not eradicate the poisonous snakes. They serve no purpose that the non-poisonous snakes can't handle. The chicken snakes, garter snakes, king snakes, and grass snakes are encouraged to be left alone in their habitat. I've lost a lot of beloved pets to copperheads, water moccasins, and rattlesnakes. Not again if I can help it.
A human is so large that any snake will consider it a threat when nearby. Snakes have attitudes much like mammals, some choose to flee, some choose to fight.
There are too many children and pets out and about on my property to not eradicate the poisonous snakes. They serve no purpose that the non-poisonous snakes can't handle. The chicken snakes, garter snakes, king snakes, and grass snakes are encouraged to be left alone in their habitat. I've lost a lot of beloved pets to copperheads, water moccasins, and rattlesnakes. Not again if I can help it.
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