Snake!!!

[bikerdoc]

Shot shells for HD is a bad idea. period.
Also You do not fire a weapon to scare. You fire to stop a threat to you or yours.
As for;

Another reason for shellshots, is that if you wake up to hear and or see an intruder at the door way, you will be in a sleepy mode and would not be able to fire a good placement shot in order "kill

Hearing or seeing an intruder at the doorway tells me you do not have a layered defense that would give you more time to get out of "sleepy mode".
Rather than waste your time here and getting off topic, do a search of layered defense.
and you will be surprised how much you will learn.

 

[Sam1911]

That's why with shotshell you don't have to worry about hitting the perp, because unless you are a really, really, lousy shot, you cannot miss by firing at the *direction* of the perp.

Hmmm, the "can't miss with a shotgun" idea. That's a popular one.

While you're out testing to see if you can get rat-shot to penetrate a sweatshirt and cardboard at 15', do a pattern test at that distance. Then tell us how you can't miss.

Hitting an intruder in the arm with the outer 2-3 fliers from your 6"-12" pattern of 1.33 gr. (if no. 9 shot) projectiles is not going to be appreciably better than missing him with a 158 gr. bullet.

Maybe consider blanks. If you plan to miss with your first two shots anyway, at least you don't have to patch the bullet holes in your walls...



-Sam

 

[AKElroy]

Quote:
It is the only way to condition dangerous wildlife to avoid human contact.

That's not only inaccurate, but illogical. Shooting snake "A" does not condition snakes "B", "C" or "D" to do anything. You might condition an individual snake not to bite through an extended effort at training it to be handled or not threatened by human presence, but killing a single individual in a population of animals as primitive as reptiles does not condition the other animals to avoid humans. It ain't like the second day of deer season. You need to rethink this idea.

OK, I acknowledge defeat. Although I am making this concession, I will continue to make my yard as inhospitable a habitat for snakes as possible, even though the clear concensus shows this effort to be futile. Evidence has suggested it has been working so far, killing snakes has resulted in no snakes, but I guess my perception of the cause & effect is simply a false assumption. My perception may be equally innaccurate with regard to coons, oppossum & squirrels, although I haven't seen many of those in my yard either after making their habitat somewhat hazerdous. Ditto scorpions & other bugs in my house; reckon they, like the afformentioned varments, must hold higher intellegence than the belly crawlers, as they are clearly staying away after my initial offensive. My core beliefs have clearly been shaken---All kidding aside, it was not my intention to convey some cosmic force training survivors to learn from the death of a brother snake. My only point was that animals choosing the wrong habitat, (one with aggressive preditors like me), will eventually be expunged from that habitat in favor of one more conducive to their survival.

 

[springmom]

Another reason for shellshots, is that if you wake up to hear and or see an intruder at the door way, you will be in a sleepy mode and would not be able to fire a good placement shot in order "kill," assuming you are shooting a non-shotshell and assuming it's at night and you've been woken from a sleep. That's why with shotshell you don't have to worry about hitting the perp, because unless you are a really, really, lousy shot, you cannot miss by firing at the *direction* of the perp.

You won't miss with a 12 gauge and buckshot either. And you're far more likely to do more than simply annoy your burglar.

Do this: set up a man size target on a piece of plywood and put it against a safe backstop. Walk away the distance from, say, your pillow to your bedroom door. Shoot two shotshells. Go take a look at the "damage" you just did to your "burglar". Your shotshells won't have done anything, including stopping the guy.

When you pick up a gun in self defense you need to be prepared to take a life with it if that is necessary. I don't want to hurt anyone at all, ever. But if someone breaks in during the night, I don't want to BE hurt either, and I will shoot without worrying about the burglar's well being.

Shotshells out of a pistol (as opposed to a 12 gauge) are NOT an effective self defense round.

Jan

 

[Five-O]

There are a couple of suggestions that I use some cardboard and plywood to check the effectiveness of a shotshell round at about 15 feet (distance from my pillow to the door)
I'll be going to the range in a couple weeks. I don't think they will allow this type of set-up. The closest target distance is 7 yards at the pistol and rimfire positions. And I can't do it in my back yard or I might end up posting from the jail library. Wait, maybe I could wait till Friday night. No one would suspect anything as there will be the usual loud reports from 4th of July fireworks. (or is that Saturday night?) I have the plywood and I have the cardboard, so maybe I'll take a chance. If a cop shows up at the door, I'll just say that it was my back door neighbor's M-80 that went off. (they're Vietnamese and they love to fire off loud fireworks)
Hmm, maybe not.

Ok, I'll concede that a .38 shotshell may not work as a sd round. But I'm still convinced that a hit, whether from two or 10 pellets (there are 135 pellets in a .38 shotshell) or more is going to sting like hell. And if my theory is correct, that will make a perp re-think his next step. You gotta remember, all criminals are stupid (if they were smart they wouldn't be doing a criminal act) and they don't or may not know what just hit them. And come on, if I can see further imminent danger, I'll simply discharge the remaining three hp's in a heartbeat. (I do have to admit I have very fast reflexes)
I might add that San Jose consistently ranks as either #1 or #2 as the safest large city in the U.S. Many crimes are crimes of opportunity. That is, if one leaves a door unlocked, they may take advantage of this oversight. I have good locks, so should I hear any evidence of a possible break in, out comes the G17 with the TLR-2, and the .38 as back up.

 

[Five-O]

Rather than waste your time here and getting off topic, do a search of layered defense

bikerdoc, I went to the faq on this site but could not find anything. I googled "layered defense" but results came out mostly for government or computer applications. Any suggestions?
I would guess that the first "layered defense" one should have would be an alarm set-up, right? I don't have an alarm system for the house. I suppose I should start looking into getting one installed. It's just that in the 33 years we've lived in this house, we have not experienced one incident involving a criminal act against property or life. I know, I know, there's always the first time. That is a consideration, so maybe I'll check out the alarm companies and consider having one installed.
Sorry that this thread has meandered off from the original subject. So back to subject. When I said I would kill any poisonous critter, I forgot to mention scorpions. I've never seen a scorpion in our house. Actually, I haven't seen a scorpion since I was 11 years old. And it was an experience I have never forgotten. Got stung by one of those little bastards and believe me, it hurts!
So, include an animal that will be dispatched if it's in my way.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I have a six year old and live way out in the sticks. If I see a venomous snake, it dies, period. I really don't care what anyone thinks of it. On the other hand, I don't prescribe to the philosophy that the only good snake is a dead one. Snakes do play a key role in rodent and insect reduction. However if it can harm me or mine, it better no get in range of the .40.

 

[bikerdoc]

Five-O
Yep, alarms, dogs, motion thingy's etc. window pins, exterior lights that go on with motion. I remember some creative stuff from some one about wind chimes and baby gates.
A lot of this stuff has been dicussed in S&T
Get creative and good luck

 

[Dazen]

PistolHunter, thank you i needed a good laugh today.I kill all venomous snakes i see too! There a town that's a short drive from where I'm at called Sweetwater, They hold a annual Rattlesnake Round-Up. Every year they pull in thousands of those Rattlesnakes from around the area. This year they took in over 13,000 lbs pounds of them. Been at it for over 51 years and still going . I wonder how many rattlers would be around if they didn't do that every year?

 

[Five-O]

Yep, alarms, dogs, motion thingy's etc. window pins, exterior lights that go on with motion. I remember some creative stuff from some one about wind chimes and baby gates.
A lot of this stuff has been dicussed in S&T
Get creative and good luck

Wow, I forgot my dog. Well, he doesn't think he's a dog, but he is. It's a cockapoo. Damn dog won't understand dog talk. Like "sit" "roll over" you know, those kinds of commands. He only understands English. Like, "Mango, do me a favor and get to bed, ok? (Mango trots off to his bed) Or, "Mango, do you want to go outside?" (yes=wags tail, no=lays down)
And I forgot the camera pointing to the driveway, with motion lights. Plus motion lights in the back and both sides.
What good are chimes if it's windy? Don't know what a baby gate is.
What's S&T?
Thanks again bikerdoc

 

[bigione]

We live on a ranch and farm. We kill all rattlesnakes we find. it does cut down the populati8on, and thus the threat. We used to get an average of 51 a year and are down to about 4 or 5 now. They kill dogs, cats, horses and cattle I'm not particularly scared of them and will stomp them if I have boots on. To me they are like eating chicken necks so I don't eat them. I don't eat chicken necks either. By the way they can only strike about 1/3 to 1/2 their bady length and usually wont uncoil that far. Put the barrel about a body length away and wave it in a little circle. They will usually line up with the hole and then you squeese! Lastly, remove and bury the head as they can bite up to 24 hrs. after death. And yes the little ones are more posioness.

 

[bikerdoc]

Five-O
The sub forum strategy and tactics! Use the search function in that sub forum.
Wind chime INDOORS .....get the idea. I dont use this one but it shows how people get creative with stuff to create more layers between them an a bad guy giving more response time.
A baby gate is a low, snap in, plastic barrier you put in a doorway to keep rugrats from going into a room they are not supposed to. Cant see it in the dark. We use them to keep the grandkids from wandering around at night. Makes quite a racket when I forget and trip over it going to the bathroom.
Your on the right track. Keep thinking, and learning.

 

[buck460XVR]

Shot shells for HD is a bad idea. period.

That's funny, everything I have read or seen in the past coupla years comes to the opposite conclusion. Guns and Ammo recently(or was it HD TV?) had a show on the difference between birdshot, buckshot and slugs for HD shotties. Again. their conclusion was that at HD ranges a load of birdshot was a solid 4'' mass that would incapacitate, while slugs and buckshot although more effective at longer ranges outside, were more prone to kill some innocent person in the next room or even two houses down. But to each their own....... one must do what they feel most confident with.


My apologies to the OP about the thread drift.

 

[1KPerDay]

That's funny, everything I have read or seen in the past coupla years comes to the opposite conclusion. Guns and Ammo recently(or was it HD TV?) had a show on the difference between birdshot, buckshot and slugs for HD shotties.

Never mind...

 

[Five-O]

Wind chime INDOORS .....get the idea.

LOL, when I first read this I thought, "there ain't no wind inside my house!" But I can now see it's implication. I'll pass on this one. We always have grandkids over, besides my two adopted ones, and they all want a "night light" so the baby gate wouldn't work. I'll check out more suggestions at the S&T forum.
Thanks again bikerdoc.
btw, what's all this fuss about something going on tomorrow? I know it's my grandson's birthday, but they don't have to celebrate it with so many firework displays, one is enough for him.

 

[buck460XVR]

I know it's my grandson's birthday, but they don't have to celebrate it with so many firework displays, one is enough for him.

His name ain't Sam by chance is it? As in Uncle Sam?

 

[bikerdoc]

they all want a "night light" so the baby gate wouldn't work.

even with a night light they work, trust me.

 

[Five-O]

His name ain't Sam by chance is it? As in Uncle Sam?

Buck, nope. his name is Carlos. Now get this, his little brother, Eain, was born on Cinco de Mayo. So I got a grandson with a Spanish name born on the 4th of July, and his brother, with a Scottish name born on Cinco de Mayo. Go figure, lol.
And actually a rich uncle, named Sam, did send me to Hawaii one year, long time ago. I had a great cruise. Lasted 3.5 years. Then I was discharged from the Navy.

 

[Five-O]

even with a night light they work, trust me.

Don't understand this one biker, do you mean it will work if you have a toddler, preventing him/her from passing? Or do you mean it will work against a burglar? If the night light is on, won't a burglar see the gate?

I wonder if they make a motion sensor you can install indoors for the purpose of detecting any movement after it's armed? Like set it when you go to bed and when you wake up you deactivate it? I think I've seen them in commercial applications, but haven't heard if they're available for home protection. Problem is I'd have to worry about the dog setting it off.

 

[casey b]

god wanted them here for some reason

target practice!!!

 

[JWF III]

target practice!!!

Yep, exactly. In fact just this evening I had some target practice turning a 2' Copperhead into a "good snake". And I'll do it again when I see the next one. With 4 dogs, 15 chickens, a couple of barn cats, and a cityfied significant other walking around (she was wondering why I always carry while in the yard, I think she might have got the message tonight), I'll kill every poisonous snake I see. And sleep very well after doing it.

Wyman

 

[Guillermo]

learning to read is important

Husaberg Man said

It can't be anyone in this thread, because no one has attempted to make a case for snakes rights.

unfortunately he did not read the following

Rattlesnakes are protected here........even if they weren't, it's a waste of a valuable resource just to kill them for no reason.

god wanted them here for some reason

Really bad idea. BTW the snake didn't do anything to deserve being kilt either, IMO.

I must confess that I don't understand the "kill it first and ask questions later" mentality.

Rattlesnakes are a part of nature and they serve a purpose. God wanted them here for some reason and I don't kill anything without a very good reason for doing it.

You know how I deal with venomous snakes? I walk away a few yards and let them vacate the area. That's what they want to do once they realize humans are around.
I have, on both counts. I still don't kill them just for existing. If it's really a threat, then fine, but to kill 'em because I have a general fear (or dislike) of snakes?? No...shortsighted and shows an ignorance of the valuable role they play.

Sadly reading comprehension in government schools is abysmal

 

[JWF III]

Sadly reading comprehention in government schools are abysmal

I've heard of it, but never heard/read it. But I think that might be what they call sarcasm. Kinda like what's in this post.

Wyman

ETA- I didn't see this the first time it was posted...

You know how I deal with venomous snakes? I walk away a few yards and let them vacate the area. That's what they want to do once they realize humans are around.

Deal with Cottonmouths often? I have seen them chase a person before.

 

[HuntAndFish]

Aw, thought this thread was going to be about a Colt DA

I thought it was gonna be about smartcarry.

 

[StrikeFire83]

Hmm, killing poisonous snakes on your own property, especially if children live there, sounds pretty a-ok to me.

Killing them them in your campground, that sounds fine too.

Killing every poisonous snake you see on the trail because "they're bad" or that's what the bible tells you to do sounds pretty damn stupid to me. Humans are more important then animals, but that doesn't mean you have to go out into the wild and kill everything you see. Do what you have to to keep family and self safe, especially if they come to where you live/sleep.

But I think the kind of man who goes out into the wilderness and kills everything he sees "just cuz" (not for food or safety) is probably compensating for a penile deficiency.