Sniper(ish) rifle in .223 Rem

[eric.cartman]

I would like to get a starter bolt action rifle.
Something to poke holes in paper at say up to 300 yards.

Is .223 caliber a viable option?
I see all the major manufactures have a version in this caliber.

Please list pros and cons of a bolt action, scoped rifle in .223.

Or, list any other options in caliber for a starter scout rifle.

Thanks!

 

[highorder]

well, do you want a sniper(ish) rifle, a starter bolt action rifle, or a scout rifle?

For poking holes in paper at 300 yards, a .223 will be cheap and fun to shoot. look at the Mossberg ATR or a Stevens 200.

 

[skinewmexico]

A 223 is a great starter rifle. My son shot my Savage in his first 500 m F-Class yesterday, and finished tied for 4th. With me, the little turd! I also have a Stevens 200 that will shoot lights out, and it was cheap.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

If you aren't going to shoot past 500 yards, get the .223. Much cheaper to shoot than .308, less recoil too. Cheaper means you can shoot more for the same money.

Later on, when you have mastered your skills at shooting up to 400-500, and you know what you like trigger, stock, optics wise as well as know what works and what doesn't from ammo to technique - go to the .308 and extend to the whole new game of out to 1,000 where things change quite a bit.


Most of the people I see at the range have heavy-duty .308 rigs, but they shoot patterns (not groups, but PATTERNS) at 100 yards. The kind of shooting that would equate to missing a phone booth at 500 yards. Sometimes, something that shoots well at 100 really opens up past 300. It isn't proportional. 1" group does not mean you will get a 4" group at 400 assuming no wind.


Start with the .223. Master the trigger pull. Master your control. Make sure you've found a decent load. Make sure you've determined the rifle can perform and isn't a lemon. Make sure the optics are up to the task and they aren't defective or lack important features you need. You get knowledge, experience and practice. I guarantee it will shape the choices you make later on as you go for shooting longer range with larger calibers and better optics.


There's nothing the .223 can't teach you at shorter range.


Make sure to get one in a 1/9 twist or better.


Savage, Stevens (also a Savage), Remington and CZ make 1/9 barrels. Tikka makes a 1/8. Savage offers a 1/7 twist rifle also.

With those, you will be able to shoot the excellent Sierra MatchKing 69, or a variety of 60-75gr BTHP that will perform better at 300.

 

[skinewmexico]

My Savage is a 1-7, and I'm shooting Black Hills 77g SMKs. Going to load some 80g Bergers soon. I can't argue with anything the previous poster said.

 

[ShunZu]

Remington 700 gotta speak up, here.

VS in .223, 2.4 pound trigger, Springfield Armory tactical scope. Reloads punch the proverbial "one raggedy hole" at 200 all day long. Cheap to shoot (reloads), no recoil to speak of. Bought the rifle from a friend that had it hand-lapped and had just received it back from the Remington custom shop. For $500 (without the glass), one of the best buys I've ever made.

 

[rogdigity]

i understand that projectiles have to twist but what does the twist rate determine? i understand that 1x8" means that the projectile will rotate one full turn in 8" of forward movement, but ive never understood what that really equates to down range or even in flight

 

[Deer Hunter]

How about a Sniper Sig 550? DSA has one for sale.

 

[alemonkey]

How much are you wanting to spend? Savage seems to be the best accuracy for the money out of the box. A Savage 12FV with a heavy target/varmint barrel can be had for around $500. A Stevens 200 (same action as Savage, but light barrel and without the nice Accutrigger) is less than $300. Either one is a good buy.

 

[cbrgator]

Rogdigity, the twisting action of bullet is what gives it stability, the faster it spins, the more stability it has. In rifling, the lower the number, the faster the bullet twists. For any given caliber, the higher the bullet weight, the greater rate of twist necessary to keep the bullet stable in flight. The best analogy is to that of spiraling a football when you throw it

 

[Girodin]

In terms of the pros I would repeat what has already been said. Ammo price and minimal recoil. Those are two things that not make the rifle more enjoyable to shoot but can contribute to you becoming a better shot.

Cheaper ammo means you can shoot more. Minimal recoil on your first bolt gun will help you avoid flinching and other bad habbits.

I think a .223 would be a great choice for a first bolt gun.

 

[rangerruck]

i think right now, that the two rifles that stand out in 223, for bench/varminter type rifles, right out of the box accurate, for about 500 bucks, would be the savage, and the cz varmint laminate. i wouldn't hesitate to get either.

 

[pete f]

Call it a varmint/target rifle, not a sniper rifle. bugs me like fingernails on the black board. unless you intend on hunting people, it is not a sniper rifle. just gives it a bad name, and makes the anti's uptight.

 

[jrfoxx]

Actually, isnt 30-06 as cheap or cheaper than .223 right now? If so, unless recoil is an issue, you should be able to get just as nice of a 30-06 as a .223 bolt gun I'd think, and 30-06 would be just as accurate and more versatile IMHO out to that distance.Better commercial ammo bullet selection, more power if you want/need it.Could be wrong, as I havent bought ammo for either in a while.Just somehing to think about.Both rounds have thier pros and cons.a 30-06 bolt gun just seems more versatile and practical TO ME.obviously, YMMV.

 

[Auburn1992]

What bullet grain would perform best with a 1 in 12 twist?

 

[Geno]

Check the Remington 700 SPS Varmint rifle in .223, for a mere $495.00 to $515.00, and it comes with a $30.00 rebate.

I'll post a pic of mine when I get some free time.

 

[skinewmexico]

What bullet grain would perform best with a 1 in 12 twist?

I'd say 45-50, but you might get lucky. Try some and see, you'll know when they don't work.

 

[rangerruck]

my 1/12 holds on to 62 grainers, but just barely.

 

[Geno]

The best bet for a 1-12 twist is 45 to 52 grains. Also, you will note that flat base bullets group better at 100 yards than boattails. However, what groups you net at 100 yards with a boattail, you should be able to maintain out to 300 yards. Specifically I mean that, my Rem 700V in 6mm Rem grouped 3/8" at 100 yards. The rifles also consistently grouped 3/8" at 200 yards, and 3/8" all the way to 300 yards where I set my zero. In my experience, the group size did not open past 100 yards. We noted this same fact with all of the varminters in our group, and in all calibers, when using boattail projectiles.

Sierra makes about the best projectile I have ever used. They have consistent measurements from projectile to projectile, and thus they group the best.

Edit to add a caution: Do not get hung up on the elusive single-hole cluster of 5-shots. It's silly, and a worthless waste of money in most 300 yards or less varmint shots. If your rifle is grouping 1" or less at 100 yards, you will nail 99.99 of varmints out to 300 yards.

The greatest knowledge and ability that the varmint hunter needs, is to know without exception where that 1st shot out of a cold, clean barrel will impact. That is my experience over the more than 20 years that I have hunted vermin.

Other folks may disagree, and that's fine. But for me, I will not dump $2,000.00+ into a varmint rig to reduce to that degree of grouping. Now, if you are varmint hunting with a .25-06 Rem out to 500 yards, that's a different matter. But, at 300 yards and closer, which is where one uses a .223 Rem, 1" or better at 100 yards is good enough.

Here are some pics of the way I have my Rem set up:

View attachment 350741

View attachment 350742

View attachment 350743

 

[skinewmexico]

A 3/8" group at 300 yards would win a lot of matches. Against $2000+ rifles.

 

[Markbo]

A LOT of matches!

 

[Geno]

I know, several of my fellow shootists tell me I should shoot competition, and other competetors who see me shoot seldom believe that I don't shoot competition. One guy actually called me a liar right to my face when I denied being a pro shootist. Think about it...why would someone lie about NOT being pro?!

Anyhow, here's the Hades of a kicker regarding this rifle's accuracy/load. If I gave you three guesses regarding which projectile I used for those groups, you would never guess it. I used the 95 grain, Nosler Partition. Now how shocking is that?!

I seated each projectile such that it would press snug against the rifling. Also, I form fired the brass, trimmed and trued all aspects of the brass' dimensions, and sorted by weight. Finally, I used custom-made collet dies, and necksized only about the initical 1/8" of the brass's neck. Little tricks taught me by my uncle.

If I did not fire the round, I almost always left the bullet in the chamber due to the seating, but that only happened a few times. I usually simply fired off the round anyhow. I won't detail the rest of the handload because it was extremely hot. Edit to add: and I had the barrel Mag-Na-Ported.

But it sure did group!

 

[Markbo]

I used the 95 grain, Nosler Partition

Well I never would have guessed that!

 

[AWMP]

Thompson center encore hunter?

 

[Hokkmike]

I don't know about anybody else, and this is an interesting thread, but it occurs to me that the adjective "sniperish" does not serve our best PR. (note: that is not PC, but PR)

I mean no offense, just my first gut reaction when I saw it.