"Sniper" Killed in Orange County

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Sniper Killed in Shootout
Saturday, June 12, 2004

IRVINE, Calif. — A sniper (search) opened fire Saturday at a rural Southern California recycling center, wounding a worker and a deputy, then fled before being killed hours later in a shootout after deputies spotted him from a helicopter.


The helicopter pilot was wounded in the leg, but all three victims were expected to survive, Orange County sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino said.

The sniper, a middle-aged man wearing green, Army-style fatigues, began firing at employees at the Baker Canyon Green Recycling Center (search) about 11:10 a.m., Amormino said.

One recycling worker was shot in the arm and a responding deputy, identified as Jerry Larson, was shot in the arm and in the shoulder, Amormino said. The shooting victims were taken to a hospital, but their conditions were not immediately available.

The sniper fled the business, and deputies searched for him for hours in the area east of Irvine Lake in eastern Orange County (search).

The gunman was spotted by the helicopter crew around 4 p.m. and shot at the deputies, Amormino said. The wounded pilot was identified as David Tilstra.

The gunman was killed near a trailer park, but it wasn't immediately clear whether he was killed by deputies on the ground or in the air, authorities said. Deputies found a .22-caliber rifle near the body.

Amormino said deputies hadn't determined a motive for the attack.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122532,00.html

 

[jamz]

See? Your .22 caliber plinking rifle is already a "deadlly Sniper weapon".

-James

 

[roscoe]

Thank god it was a .22.

 

[The_Antibubba]

He was trying to be a good Californian

He was recycling his metals!

 

[spacemanspiff]

why is it that when a persons circuit breaker (mental) overloads, they never visit the effects in the right direction?

 

[UberPhLuBB]

So he shot at, and penetrated a flying helicopter's metal hull or plexiglass viewport and injured the pilot with a .22 rifle? Nobody thinks that sounds just a little odd?

 

[tiberius]

So he shot at, and penetrated a flying helicopter's metal hull or plexiglass viewport and injured the pilot with a .22 rifle? Nobody thinks that sounds just a little odd?

The article doesn't mention rimfire, if that's what you mean. The "DC snipers" used a .22 caliber rifle as well.

 

[UberPhLuBB]

The press is notorious for being ignorant when they need to and specific when they have to.

If it didn't specify ".22 centerfire," as far as I'd care to believe, they meant rimfire. That follows their standard practice.

 

[Night Guy]

It's just a simple matter of rounding down, so .223 becomes .22. Logic need not apply to the media.

 

[UberPhLuBB]

Now I must say, that's scary.

The press is generally ignorant, they care only for ratings, journalistic integrity and those pesky things known as "facts" don't matter to them. but for them to accidentally leave off that extra number... damn.

 

[tiberius]

Just to give them the benefit of the doubt...They probably got the info from the police.... who may not have yet known the exact cartridge used. It could have been any number of .22 caliber rifles. .22 L.R. and .223/5.56 Nato are the most common, but maybe it was a .22 hornet or .224 fire breather wildcat...who knows? Caliber is just the bore size.

Of course it may have been a rimfire....article doesn't say.

 

[Triad]

So he shot at, and penetrated a flying helicopter's metal hull or plexiglass viewport and injured the pilot with a .22 rifle? Nobody thinks that sounds just a little odd?

You're assuming the pilot was in the helicopter at the time. I've seen a couple of instances on TV where the crew landed to attempt to catch the guy they were after.

 

[Quantrill]

There are many small helicopters in use today. Some fly without doors, the Robinson R-22 is such a chopper as is the R-44 (being 2 and 4 passenger). These are smaller lightweight choppers with piston engines. The article did not specify the type of helo. Since many of us are used to seeing the bigger "jet ranger" type of turbine powered chopper, we automatically assume the biggest. Quantrill

 

[M67]

A .22 LR will penetrate a sheet steel car door, I don't see why it couldn't penetrate a thin aluminium panel on a helicopter.

 

[1911Tuner]

Sniper

Sorry...but giving this cretin the honor of the title "Sniper" is off the scale.
He's a POS who shoots people at random with a rifle. He's a scumbag that
deserves exactly what he got. He's a murdering SOB with no right to an attorney any more, thank God. He was living example of why some species eat their young...but he was NOT a sniper.

Rant off...

Tuner

 

[Lone_Gunman]

1911Tuner,

"Sniper" is not a title of honor, though some people on this forum would like it to be. Its just a job description, like rifleman, truckdriver, or doctor. The term does not carry a positive or negative connotation. It does not necessarily even carry any implication of skill or marksmanship. There can be morally good and morally bad snipers, and they should not all be lumped together in a positive category.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Dictionary.com:


snip·er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snpr)
n.

1. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.

2. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------





I think he technically meets the requirements of definition #2.


Remember the government sniper that killed Randy Weaver's wife at Ruby Ridge while she was holding a baby?

 

[ID_shooting]

LG,

OK, by dictionary standards you are correct; however, I know a few people that proudly wear their Sniper Tabs that would disagree with you.

We had a platoon of Scouts and many of them were tabbed snipers. They would literally come unglued everytime the media would mention the word sniper to describe some nut case that went on a rampage.

I guess it is all about context.

 

[1911Tuner]

Ruby Ridge

Vickie Weaver was killed by a rifleman while holding a baby. The rifleman's
name was Lon Horiuchi...Though his job description was "Sniper" he was no man of honor, and I refuse to refer to him as a sniper. He was looking for an excuse to shoot somebody, and she was a target of opportunity.
"Murderer" would fit better. She was neither armed, nor a threat to any of the agents involved.

The Marine Snipers that I knew and loved were honorable, disciplined, and squared away. They would usually pass on a shot if there was a chance of hitting a non-combatant, especially if a child were involved. The "sniper" in question may fit Funk & Wagnall's defininition of the term...but not mine, and not for those of us who know the real deal. ID_Shooter is spot on,
and a real Sniper would explain the difference in a hurry.

Semper Fi!

Tuner

 

[thatguy]

Please, let's not argue over titles. A sniper is as a sniper does. The winner of the Indy 500 is a driver and so is the drunk who plows his Buick into a school bus. I think most people see the word sniper as meaning a marksman who shoots from a great distance. The circumstances of the shooting are the context that determine the character of the person doing the shooting. The media will call a murderer with a rifle a sniper and there's nothing we can do about it. The media will use any catchy word to grab your attention and sniper is one of them.

 

[Waitone]

The media just loves to take a term seldom used and begin to introduce it into stories. That allows them to infuse their own definitions. What the Funk and Waggonel says is irrelevant. What the reporter and associated editor says the definition is is what is important.

Thanks to our islamofascist terrormongers idiots the media now has the definition of sniper to mean anyone who kills from the shadows. Does that mean a respectable vocation in the military and certain LE gigs gets sullied? Too bad.

 

[SoCalGeek]

It's just a simple matter of rounding down, so .223 becomes .22. Logic need not apply to the media.

Nah, I think if it were a .223 they would have called it an assault rifle.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I agree arguing over semantics is a little petty, but I still would say that "sniper" in and of itself is a neutral term.

Certainly US military snipers are honorable men, but it is not because they are snipers. They were honorable men first who became snipers.


Lee Harvey Oswald and Lon Horiuchi were no less snipers simply because they committed murder.


And being a sniper isn't what made men like Carlos Hathcock honorable.


It all boils down to the fact that honor, and not skill with a rifle, is what makes men respectable. I think we will all agree on that.

 

[sendec]

Before we start hurling dictionaries.....

Let's hope the good guys heal up.

It does'nt take much to down a helo, especially if the pilot is the part struck. They are pretty fragile, and that goes for the helicopters, too. A .22 bullet in the turbine or transmission could very well do the trick. If it was actually forced to land, this would make at least the third time in the last couple of years that American LE helos have been downed by groundfire. This is'nt good.

Back to your thesaureseseseses/thesauri?

 

[Bob F.]

AMEN, L.G.!

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[Standing Wolf]

If the criminal hits what he's shooting at, he's known as a "sniper." Those who miss are known as "crazed lone gunmen."