So I handled a Kel-Tec SU-16C today...

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seanie!

seanie!

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...and I was far from impressed. I've been on the look out for an SU-16 ever since I saw one on the cover of the Guns & Ammo 2009 buyer's guide, but wow. The first thing that struck me was that it was light. Really light. The next was the quality of the plastic on the gun. I don't know if I'd call it flimsy, but it felt cheap. I run injection molding machines and work with plastics for a living, and I could not ignore the quality of the plastic. It didn't look glass filled to me, and I'm not sure what kind it is.

I still love the look and ergonomics of the gun. I never got into the whole pistol grip on a rifle thing, like on ARs or AKs, so I picked up a Saiga and have no plans to convert it. I would still love to pick up an SU-16, but I feel now I almost need to be talked into it. Does anybody here have one? Are they reliable? I have heard a few stories of receivers splitting, and that Kel-Tec takes care of them right away. I guess I'm looking for actual owner's experience. Are they any good? I can't help but feel disappointed that I've been trying to get a hold of this rifle for months, and then when I finally find one it not living up to the hype I built up for it.
 
I can't help but think of the "engineer's guide to marketing terms" I ran into years ago:

Robust -- Too heavy to lift.
Lightweight -- Flimsy.

I put a cheap red dot on my SU-16 and really enjoy shooting it. Accuracy surprised me and mine has functioned well with the cheap steel cased ammo.

I agree it seemed fragile at first, but now I see it as remarkably light weight.

Kel-Tec customer service is very good even though their guns are value priced.

--wally.
 
I have a CA and an A, both have been very reliable, and they are just the right weight for a .223. I also have AR's and a Mini14 in .223 to compare to. Not nearly as accurate as my AR, more accurate than my 2008 model mini 14.
 
I agree it seemed fragile at first, but now I see it as remarkably light weight.
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So it is remarkably flimsy? :p FWIW I have never cared for them myself, felt a bit cheap to me, but I have never shot one either. :)
 
seanie!...If you want an SU-16 you can buy with confidence. At first, especially if you are used to handling ARs and high end metal weapons. The light weight and slimness of the SU is a bit "iiffy" feeling...also Kel-Tec does not fuss over the finish of their weapons too much, every one I've owned or handled looks rough. Don't let that dissuade you..its cosmetic only.
The SU will win you over once you start using it, simple, clean and reliable operation, great ergos, quick handling and tons of innovation. If you ever do have a problem, Kel-Tec, has EXCELLENT customer service and a lifetime warranty(that they actually honor). Nice community of Kel-Tec owners too... http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
tons of info here if you're interested.

few pics of my Alpha
DSC01705.jpg
DSC01703.jpg
 
Dont let "internet people" convince you of something your gut tells you is wrong. If it feels cheap to you now, it will later too.

"but the people on the internet like it" doesnt matter, the question is do you.


Every gun I have ever bought has grabbed me like " Yeah, thats great I want that"


Dont bend to the internet masses. Go with your gut.h
 
dom1104...from where I'm sitting you look just like an "internet person"....

If the OP(that is "Orginal Poster"..to us internet persons) didn't want opinions and advice they wouldn't have asked.
If you don't have anything worthwhile to add shut up and don't be an "avid internet poster like myself"
 
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I agree with dom, you need to do what feels right...not what everyone else likes. Shoulder it...shoot it if you can...after which decide if it is right for you. Don't base your purchase on whether it looks cool, or whether others like it. :)
 
One of the most fun guns I've ever owned (Hi-Point 995) was an ugly, flimsy, poorly finished, sad excuse for a carbine that I swore I'd never own. I had seen one at a gun show and thought, Yuck!. Picked one up in a trade as a "throw in", otherwise I would never have shot it.

Once I did shoot it, I was impressed and really came to think of it as one of my favorites.

My point is that don't dismiss something until you can actually shoot it. In the absence of shooting it, DO consider feedback from forums like this.
 
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I definitely still love the look of the gun. I was in the market for an EBR for quite a while and always jumping back and for between an AR and 91 clone. When I saw the rifle on the cover of Guns & Ammo, something just clicked in my brain and said "That's the rifle for me." I guess I just like the aesthetics of the Monte Carlo type stock on a more "tactical" rifle. While it was taking months for me to track one down(to no avail) I happened upon the Saiga. I had that same I must have it feeling in my gut. After reading up on it I was sold, and picked one up.

When I finally happened on to the SU-16, it was like running across my white whale. My jaw practically dropped. When I handled it, that's when I felt like I'd been had. How could the object of my months-long hunt forsake me? Maybe I was just too used to the Saiga and it's front end heft, but it seemed peculiarly light to me. The overall fit and finish seemed lackluster, but hey, I've been shooting a Saiga so I guess I can't complain, right? The ergonomics were great, and it felt good when I shouldered it. I would've loved to check out the fore-end bipod, but the clerk told me not to open it. I also would have loved to fold it, but I was once again denied. Hopefully one day I'll get to shoot one, and that'll make up my mind for me. I still haven't ruled it out, and that's why I came on here looking for opinions. Thanks for chiming in gentlemen.
 
I would've loved to check out the fore-end bipod, but the clerk told me not to open it. I also would have loved to fold it, but I was once again denied.
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Whether I liked it or not, I wouldn't have bought it from him anyway. Shoot it and you'll typically know whether it is right for you right away. :)
 
The su16 was designed as a low round count hiking rifle of sorts. Of course it's going to feel cheap! It's built to be cheap because the target buyer is the guy who shoots a couple hundred rounds a year, not the guy who needs to trust his rifle to save his life and shoots 10,000 rounds a year in training.

People say companies like kel tec have "amazing service/warranty". It's because they can afford it. These types of rifles are easily produced at very low cost and they're priced multiple times over. Add to the fact that the target buyer is unlikely to trash his rifle and you have a great operation going.
 
FYI

The plastic used in the SU-16 (and most other Kel-Tecs) is 33% glass filled impact and heat modified Dupont Zytel Nylon.

It's good stuff, that many other manufacturers use.
 
Low Round Count

I have a couple of SU-16A rifles.

One is fairly new, the other I've had for . . . what . . . three years?

I'm well over a thousand rounds in that one. I'm thinking I might clean it sometime soon. Heck, you never know.

The "over a thousand" has included all manner of stuff. Commercial .223 (Remington, Federal, Olympic, Black Hills, Fiocci, etc.) and all kinds of generic "gun-show-bag-o-bullets" reloads and no-name "re-manufactured" stuff.

It eats EVERYTHING I feed it. It eats stuff my friends couldn't feed in their various ARs. Oh, and the bolt face looks like it's right out of an AR.

It loves every brand of AR-compatible magazine I've tried.

It's more accurate than I am.

It ain't purty. It feels cheap. It's light as the dickens. It makes a kind of "twang" that's more felt than heard when the action cycles during firing. The bipod kinda sux: flimsy with a weak spring. It will do in a pinch, but I don't brag about it.

I actually ordered mine through a local shoppe, and chose the Alpha over the Bravo because I wanted a longer sight radius (old eyes, y'know). If I had it to do over, I might go with the Bravo, 'cuz it will carry in a backpack without that last 2 1/2 inches of barrel poking out. I'd have to add glass of some sort, but it looks like I'll be doing that anyway on one of the two I already have.

If I were going to war or taking some kind of abusive "practical carbine" class, I'd probably not carry one, as the stock is not designed to take a lot of punishment. In pretty much all other contexts, though, I have confidence in the weapon.

The receiver is synthetic, kinda like Glocks and XDs and so on, but you have to remember the actual firing chamber and barrel and bolt and stuff is all steel -- just like on synthetic pistols.

If I had to depend on it for self defense, varmints, food, and whatnot I don't believe I'd feel under-dressed.

If cosmetics were a big deal for me, I'd probably pick up a recent-manufacture Ruger Mini 14. Accuracy is comparable, and they're evidently reliable. Of course, I'd pay $250 more than I spent on the SU-16, and I'd be giving up STANAG compatibility.

I'm happy with my Kel-Tec rifles.

They've met my expectations. That's all I can really ask.

 
My SU-16c has 4k rounds thru her-no problems so far. Its great fun to shoot, will put 10 rounds into 1" at 50 yards, and functions very well. It is not an AR, but it is not a AK either. It's a great SHTF weapon, inexpensive, light, and compact. I take it coyote hunting in NE Wisconsin, walking between stands with the "Charlie" folded and slung over my back is a joy.
Its to an AR what a Glock is to a 1911.:D
 
You need a new gunshop! That guy behind the counter isn't doing himself any favors.

If I can't check the gun out, I'll not be buying it. Honestly, who would?
 
Reminds me of the Bushmaster Carbon-15 I bought a while back.

Everyone who picked it up said it felt flimsy and cheap. No one wanted to buy it, so it eventually wound up getting marked down to $420, and finally I took it home.

Shoots great...reliable, accurate, and a completely different feel from a normal AR. When you're firing an AR that weighs about 5 pounds, fully loaded up, with all of the weight right at the action, it's amazingly fast-handling. Normal AR15s just feel clunky to me now.
 
This gun funtions and meets a price point. It wouldn't be my first choice but I would feel well armed with the Kel-tec.
 
I looked at KelTec's website to check out the SU16 and discovered the RFB. Not to derail the thread, but is it out yet? The website says first shipments are expected feb 09, so they should be out.
 
They've shipped out approximately 50-60 of them so far. They're incredibly hard to come by, and commanding prices between $2500-3000+ on Gunbroker.
 
and commanding prices between $2500-3000+ on Gunbroker.
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So prices are down from the $10k or so in Feb-March...there is hope yet...it just may take a few [strike]years[/strike] decades. :D
 
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